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Old July 17th, 2015, 09:41 AM   #921
k.k.jetcar
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Why doesn't UK use electro diesel power cars for these InterCity trains? The diesel powered InterCity trains and the shorter voyager trainsets often run on electrified sections and adding the ability to draw power from the grid will only increase their efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
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Old July 18th, 2015, 02:41 AM   #922
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Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
Why doesn't UK use electro diesel power cars for these InterCity trains? The diesel powered InterCity trains and the shorter voyager trainsets often run on electrified sections and adding the ability to draw power from the grid will only increase their efficiency.
Because when the trains were built, a lot of the main lines were not electrified yet. And even if they were electrified, it was not always done fully so diesel trains are still needed to reach some destinations.

Building electric power cars is expensive, especially for rolling stock which will be replaced within a couple of years. New Hitachi-built stock has been ordered to replace the IC 125 and IC 225 sets on a couple of routes, which are currently served by First Great Western and Virgin Trains East Coast.
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Old July 25th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #923
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HS2 route fly over with animation

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Old September 3rd, 2015, 05:34 PM   #924
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From Global Rail News:

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http://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/0...d-of-the-year/

Scotland HS2 study to be released by the end of the year
3 SEP, 2015

[IMG]http://i1.wp.com/www.globalrailnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/HS1-************.jpg?resize=720%2C400[/IMG]

A report which will set out possible route options for HS2 in Scotland will be published by the end of the year, Infrastructure Secretary Keith Brown has announced.

The study was commissioned following the publication of the Fast Track Scotland report, which highlighted the significant benefits high-speed rail would bring to Scotland.

Brown said that another announcement will likely follow in February 2016 to set out “the next steps” to getting fast trains beyond the border

...
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Old September 24th, 2015, 02:08 PM   #925
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From Railway Gazette:

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http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/h...ng-begins.html

High Speed 2 civil works tendering begins
24 Sep 2015



UK: The government launched the bidding process for the construction of High Speed 2 on September 24, with the issuing of a pre-qualification questionnaire for the Tranche 1 main civils works contracts.

The seven contracts with a total value of £11·8bn cover construction of the surface route and tunnels for the London – Birmingham Phase 1 of the planned HS2 network between London, Manchester and Leeds.

Suppliers can express interest in all seven packages. Following the PQQ, successful applicants will be invited to bid for up to four packages, and would be awarded a maximum of two contracts per tenderer

...
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Old September 24th, 2015, 03:29 PM   #926
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In my opinion, there going about this all wrong. Instead of phasing the work over time, the phases should be studied, tendered and constructed at the same time. The upfront cost would be more but you don't run into issues such as new technology coming out and building a line that is 25 years old plus the issue of material/labour costs increasing over time making phase 3 (the eventual Scottish phase) really expensive in comparison to phases 1, 2a and 2b. The UK govt always seems to drag its heals on infrastructure projects meaning by the time it's built, it's already way out of date in comparison to mainland Europe or asia.
Also, in my opinion, DfT should've looked at other options, such as maglev, rather than just trying to play a rather expensive game of catch up.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 03:24 PM   #927
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Maglev was considered, but pretty quickly ruled out. Think about it. HS2 is proposing through services to numerous destinations using classic-compatible stock (i.e. very high speed trains which can also run on the existing infrastructure) from day 1. All that Maglev could offer would be a single origin - destination pair. So if the aim was simply to get from London to Birmingham quickly then Maglev would have been fine, but that would have denied the other destinations the benefits of through services onto HS2.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #928
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removed

Last edited by Stratford; November 4th, 2015 at 12:29 AM. Reason: HS2 youtube change
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Old October 31st, 2015, 05:13 PM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hawken View Post
Maglev was considered, but pretty quickly ruled out. Think about it. HS2 is proposing through services to numerous destinations using classic-compatible stock (i.e. very high speed trains which can also run on the existing infrastructure) from day 1. All that Maglev could offer would be a single origin - destination pair. So if the aim was simply to get from London to Birmingham quickly then Maglev would have been fine, but that would have denied the other destinations the benefits of through services onto HS2.
Not strictly true.

The maglev proposal was to build a line from London - Birmingham - Manchester - Leeds - Newcastle - Edinburgh - Glasgow. The argument was that it could have been built for the same capital cost as HS2 Phase 1.

That it got ruled out was in part due to the proposal reaching the DfT at a time when there was a combination of Chancellor and Minister for Transport who were anti-HSR in general and not just anti-maglev. They held all forms of HSR up until Lord Adonis made a push to get it back on the agenda a couple of years later.
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Old October 31st, 2015, 11:26 PM   #930
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The maglev proposal was to build a line from London - Birmingham - Manchester - Leeds - Newcastle - Edinburgh - Glasgow.
So no Liverpool, Sheffield or East Midlands then.

IIRC, the Maglev enthuasist who invoked the wrath of everyone (not just the Scouse Mafia) by proposing a line that didn't serve Liverpool talked about classic-compatible, but gave journey times that are worse than now due to where the route would be able to intersect with existing lines to Liverpool and a 90km/h top speed for a Maglev train on conventional rails.

If you want to know why Maglev was a total non-starter: inability to interact with existing lines effectively to serve cities off the reverse-S route made it untenable even before the issues with the sums, the technological risk, etc.
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The argument was that it could have been built for the same capital cost as HS2 Phase 1.
That argument was torn to shreds. It was based on construction costs. It ignored land costs (which for the proposal would be about HS2's phase 1 cost and that's before you've started building it). It assumed an elevated maglev the entire route and didn't understand why HS2 runs below grade in many places, blaming engineering issues, rather than political ones.
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That it got ruled out was in part due to the proposal reaching the DfT at a time when there was a combination of Chancellor and Minister for Transport who were anti-HSR in general and not just anti-maglev. They held all forms of HSR up
It was more Balls (#2 at the Treasury at the time) than Brown. And they held everything up, feeling infrastructure spending was a total waste of money (but happily gave hundreds of billions to the bankers).

Lord Adonis getting HS2 onto the agenda was his price to take the job, and Brown had no other choice.
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Old November 1st, 2015, 01:28 AM   #931
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For the record I'm not saying that maglev should have been built over conventional HSR, just correcting some misconceptions in the previous post.

I agree that the maglev proposal's argument about land purchase vs leasing the right to build an elevated track over that land was nonsense. For starters, HSR could do exactly the same if there were not a plethora of other considerations such as aesthetic impact on the local environment.

However I was not aware that any sort of "classic compatible" maglev was proposed. The project I am talking about - UK Ultraspeed - was proposing to use the Siemens / Thyssen Krupp Transrapid technology and that most definitely would never be classic compatible. Even if there was a way to put retractable wheels on it, the size of the thing would breach even European loading gauge.
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Old November 1st, 2015, 01:38 AM   #932
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For the record I'm not saying that maglev should have been built over conventional HSR, just correcting some misconceptions in the previous post.
No, I knew you weren't saying that. Your excellent description was just a good opportunity to lay into the rubbishness of Maglev.

I'm sorry if people misread this my post two above as "33Hz is a dingbat" - it was meant to show why Maglev was a rubbish idea. 33Hz was merely a messenger, and it was never my aim to shoot the messenger, just the people who wrote the message.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 12:29 AM   #933
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Old November 4th, 2015, 03:25 AM   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hawken View Post
Maglev was considered, but pretty quickly ruled out. Think about it. HS2 is proposing through services to numerous destinations using classic-compatible stock (i.e. very high speed trains which can also run on the existing infrastructure) from day 1. All that Maglev could offer would be a single origin - destination pair. So if the aim was simply to get from London to Birmingham quickly then Maglev would have been fine, but that would have denied the other destinations the benefits of through services onto HS2.
Hate to rehash but even if you connect HSR to classic tracks, the HSR is not going to magically fly High speed. Track alignment and signal system comprises 50% of the reason why those HS trains can manage those speeds in the first place. Once on classical lines the HS trains are going to be bogged down by the conventional traffic which will at the end hamper HSR time schedule and will see delays through out the system. The more you have interconnected traffic the more you will see delays and the only way to negate the problem is the limit the amount in interconnecting traffic meaning there will be about one every hour at best. Meaningless if you ask me.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 04:27 AM   #935
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Hate to rehash but even if you connect HSR to classic tracks, the HSR is not going to magically fly High speed. Track alignment and signal system comprises 50% of the reason why those HS trains can manage those speeds in the first place. Once on classical lines the HS trains are going to be bogged down by the conventional traffic which will at the end hamper HSR time schedule and will see delays through out the system. The more you have interconnected traffic the more you will see delays and the only way to negate the problem is the limit the amount in interconnecting traffic meaning there will be about one every hour at best. Meaningless if you ask me.
I think everyone understands the a HST is not going to run at fly high speeds on conventional tracks. The point is to increase the reach of the HSTs to destinations not directly connected on the HSR network. HS2 will not only connect Central London and Birmingham. Instead trains can originate anywhere in Greater London or even in the South Eastern counties and continue on to HS2 and further connect to destinations other than Birmingham. This reduces changeovers, increases the utilization of tracks and saves time for the passengers. Direct HSR and perhaps some freight services between northern england and the European mainland are also possible.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #936
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I think everyone understands the a HST is not going to run at fly high speeds on conventional tracks. The point is to increase the reach of the HSTs to destinations not directly connected on the HSR network. HS2 will not only connect Central London and Birmingham. Instead trains can originate anywhere in Greater London or even in the South Eastern counties and continue on to HS2 and further connect to destinations other than Birmingham. This reduces changeovers, increases the utilization of tracks and saves time for the passengers. Direct HSR and perhaps some freight services between northern england and the European mainland are also possible.
But it doesn't reduce time or be convenient since it will require the passenger to adjust their time to catch the train heading for their designation which maybe one every two hours and once on the classic line further bogged down by delay in the classic line.

A person that doesn't have the luxury to wait two hours for his direct designated train will just catch the first train down and change trains at the end point of the HSR dedicated tracks which is exactly the same as if you implemented Maglev in which Maglev would be faster since on the dedicated track Maglev is faster.

I hear in France some classic line that share a HSR route only have one train per day so how is that going to be any convenient for the people who utilize that line?
You guys really need to study how modern HSR system in conjunction with classic rail works. The Shinkansen for example leaves the station every 5 minutes so the passenger really doesn't have to adjust their time to fit the train, they adjust the train to fit their time. On the other side there will be a classic train waiting every 15 minutes. So again the loss is minimal with a grand amount of overall travel time cut through the process.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 11:40 AM   #937
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You guys really need to study how modern HSR system in conjunction with classic rail works.
You really need to study how the British HSR system will work. All your points were based on straw men.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 11:56 AM   #938
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If the plan to have trains route out to the rest of the country from Birmingham goes ahead, I imagine it'd be a very busy line and get congested quite quickly unless some serious yield management is implemented.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 12:27 PM   #939
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I hear in France some classic line that share a HSR route only have one train per day so how is that going to be any convenient for the people who utilize that line?.
I would say, the same way you utilize an airline. Just go to the station instead
of going to the airport.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 03:31 PM   #940
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But it doesn't reduce time or be convenient since it will require the passenger to adjust their time to catch the train heading for their designation which maybe one every two hours and once on the classic line further bogged down by delay in the classic line.
Liverpool: Two trains per hour
Glasgow: Two trains per hour
Edinburgh: Two trains per hour
Newcastle: Two trains per hour
Preston: One train per hour.

Which are these "one every two hours" services again?
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