search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:00 AM   #81
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,817
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
On HSR lines you have direct trains (no stops), trains with intermediate stops and regional express service, just like you have on non HSR.
Not really, especially on French ones that are nearing saturation point. Every train can only stop maximum once or twice and mostly not at all while on the HSR, so any train is effectively the same type of train whilst on the line. Once they leave the HSR the services can do whatever, but then that's not what the threads about.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 1st, 2008, 03:46 AM   #82
Richard Mlynarik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 14
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Not really, especially on French ones that are nearing saturation point. Every train can only stop maximum once or twice and mostly not at all while on the HSR, so any train is effectively the same type of train whilst on the line. Once they leave the HSR the services can do whatever, but then that's not what the threads about.
I suppose this must be impossible then: Tokaido-Sanyo Shinkansen double-track operation
Richard Mlynarik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 09:18 AM   #83
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,817
Likes (Received): 5

The link you have provided (that I haven't even looked at because I know very well how the shinkansen works) shows intermdiate stopping services passed by express ones. However there are no non-express services on the line.

Japan is also unique in this kind of service. Nowhere else on earth has built HSR in a similar way, apart from Taiwan which could have similarities.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 09:40 AM   #84
Avientu
Registered User
 
Avientu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eixample dret, Barcelona
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 39

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
wether you like it or not Guadalajara is in the catchment area of Madrid.
Ok, but not a suburb of Madrid as you said.
__________________

Avientu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 04:15 PM   #85
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,797
Likes (Received): 148

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Not really, especially on French ones that are nearing saturation point. Every train can only stop maximum once or twice and mostly not at all while on the HSR, so any train is effectively the same type of train whilst on the line. Once they leave the HSR the services can do whatever, but then that's not what the threads about.
A assume that by French ones you are talking about LGV1 ???? I'm I correct ???

LGV1 is the perfect example of french stuborness ... it should have been quadrupled long ago between Paris and Lyon ...

It's the "odd case" and not the rule ... it simply can't acomodate for any more traffic ... but they insist in creating more traffic to put in the small 2 tracks.

Nowhere else in the world theres suck stuborness ... maiby half the TGV traffic in europe is compressed into a 2 track section of 500 miles ... how many destinations are served hourly thru that line in particular???

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
The link you have provided (that I haven't even looked at because I know very well how the shinkansen works) shows intermdiate stopping services passed by express ones. However there are no non-express services on the line.

Japan is also unique in this kind of service. Nowhere else on earth has built HSR in a similar way, apart from Taiwan which could have similarities.
there are lots of services operating in that manner ... start by looking precisely at JR.xpto HST's

To a much smaller scale it happens in Renfe's own AVE network

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mlynarik View Post
I suppose this must be impossible then: Tokaido-Sanyo Shinkansen double-track operation
As it is shouwn in that topic ... it is perfectly possible ... since it happens everyday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avientu View Post
Ok, but not a suburb of Madrid as you said.
We are not speaking of guadalajara as a "suburb" but as a station in the HSL in the outer ring of the Madrid Stations Catchment area.

In a way even chamartin and Atocha are both "suburban" stations served as neither of them is in the city center.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 05:19 PM   #86
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 851
Likes (Received): 160


From Atocha you can walk to Puerta del Sol in less than 15 minutes, or a 2 min subway ride, hardly suburban. Chamartin on the other hand is more of suburban caracter, but you are only a 5 minute subway ride away from the CBD.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 07:03 PM   #87
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
The link you have provided (that I haven't even looked at because I know very well how the shinkansen works) shows intermdiate stopping services passed by express ones. However there are no non-express services on the line.

Japan is also unique in this kind of service. Nowhere else on earth has built HSR in a similar way, apart from Taiwan which could have similarities.
Excuse me.

There are three services on Tokaido-Sanyo: Kodama (all stops), Hikari (some stops), and Nozomi (very limited). While the line itself is called 'super express', that's just by virtue of the high speed. Here's a video I took of a Kodama stopped at Himeji, passed by a Nozomi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j_lZnvsKeU

Are you saying that you can't mix low speed and high speed trains? That is indeed true, within limits, because of the signaling systems and block length.

Regarding the thread... TGV Est has minimum 3 minute headways (TVM 430 signaling on 1500m blocks). Service will eventually reach that, after the line extension is completed. I have no idea what it is now (although that's me being lazy, because I have the damn schedule sitting next to me).
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 09:40 PM   #88
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,817
Likes (Received): 5

A stop at 300km/h costs 6-7 minutes. Add the 3 minute headway that's 10 minutes against a train that doesn't stop at the station.

A stop at 130km/h costs 2 minutes.

Hence stops on HSRs don't feature that much as the severity of the capacity reduction increases exponentially with the service speed of the line.

Non-express services would generally mean slow services on 160km/h trundling high capacity trains - that definitely isn't what's going on on Shinkansen.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2008, 11:04 PM   #89
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 851
Likes (Received): 160

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
A stop at 300km/h costs 6-7 minutes. Add the 3 minute headway that's 10 minutes against a train that doesn't stop at the station.

A stop at 130km/h costs 2 minutes.

Hence stops on HSRs don't feature that much as the severity of the capacity reduction increases exponentially with the service speed of the line.

Non-express services would generally mean slow services on 160km/h trundling high capacity trains - that definitely isn't what's going on on Shinkansen.
It depends on many factors like slots, train acceleration and retardation, if the station permit throughtraffic at full speed while another train load/unload at the same time, the signaling system is also very important. Still very few lines have installed the full ERTMS system which permit a lot denser traffic.

On the Barcelona-Madrid line they have both direct sevice and trains with 4 (5 once the Prat station opens) intermediate stops. There will also be regional service, Madrid-Calatayud and Barcelona-Leida in future. But of cause the line is new and still very underused.

Last edited by gincan; April 1st, 2008 at 11:12 PM.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2008, 03:39 AM   #90
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

Spacing on railways mainly deals with the gap between parallel tracks, as wider spacing is needed as trains travel faster to avoid trains travelling in opposite directions toppeling eachother over.

Distance between stations, on the other hand, has never been an recorded statistic. Norms are for faster trains to have stops further apart, but that's just for effeciency. It isn't like motorways where exits and interchanges must be at least a certain distance.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:28 PM   #91
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,817
Likes (Received): 5

I've just reread myself over the last few days and imo I have been rude. My apologies everyone!!!
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:33 PM   #92
Alargule
so unfair
 
Alargule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,804
Likes (Received): 1710

Damn mouse...
__________________
Rails in Amsterdam
Alargule no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2010, 02:49 PM   #93
apaoli
Registered User
 
apaoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 187
Likes (Received): 3

ICE VELARO D

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...xtlKp-nANZMYZQ


2011
apaoli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2010, 07:39 PM   #94
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,135
Likes (Received): 726

A lot of blind seats - human stupidity is endless...
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2010, 09:27 PM   #95
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 798

the best thing about the prev versions was the seating behind the driver

now they took that away
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2010, 12:52 AM   #96
kyah117
Registered User
 
kyah117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 509
Likes (Received): 110

Well, I prefer the look of the ICE 3.
The lights are too high... In fact, when I see those pictures, I think about a failed Shinkansen (only for the external design)
__________________
Association TC-Alsace Mobilité & Urbanisme
http://www.tc-alsace.eu/
kyah117 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2010, 06:19 AM   #97
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,801
Likes (Received): 441

Quote:
The lights are too high...
Had to be relocated due to a different clamshell design for the coupler cover/fairing:

http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p64539498.html

*Above taken from this (more pictures at the factory):
http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/c1842814.html
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:31 AM   #98
G5man
High Speed Rail fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 337
Likes (Received): 37

It doesn't have the appeal of an ICE 3 or the rest of the Velaro fleet. I liked the round porthole on the door. The square just doesn't do me any good. Plus, I liked it when the windows would look like a continuous glass instead of noticing the interior interruptions between windows panes.
G5man no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:57 AM   #99
Peloso
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Away from Macaronia
Posts: 1,169
Likes (Received): 245

Looks good. Not worse than the previous version. Appears to be cleaner.
__________________
Save Italy, fight the Macaroni
E(xtinction)=m(afia)c(reeps)²
Peloso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2010, 06:37 PM   #100
bobke90
Registered User
 
bobke90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 299
Likes (Received): 2

ICE 3 or ICE4, they look almost the same and they look well. They are one of the most beautiful trains, there are.
__________________
http://www.lowtechmagazine.be/
bobke90 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu