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Old June 22nd, 2017, 10:24 PM   #18841
ennisc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
To which city or cities are you comparing it?

In 2027 Liverpool will be getting a far better service level than Sheffield, Leeds, York and Newcastle. They get absolutely nothing from HS2 until 2033.
The journey times are just so disappointing. I can already get a train from Euston to Warrington Bank Quay that only takes 1h46m. In 10 years time Liverpool will simply achieve that and scarcely go further. Just 35 minutes off the fastest times with such an enormous project is poor. What would be truly transformational would be getting it down to 1h15m, but I see nothing offering a realistic hope of that.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 10:37 PM   #18842
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Paul Maynard MP is now 'Minister for HS2' as well as 'Minister for Rail'.

Today he gave an upbeat speech in Birmingham. Not exactly full of revelations, it can be read here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...le-work-better

A small part:

Quote:
Back then (a year ago), the HS2 Bill for Phase One — the stretch from Birmingham to London — was a concept that had yet to be approved by parliament.

The route for much of the second phase of HS2 — from Crewe to Manchester and Birmingham to Leeds — had yet to be announced.

The procurement for the main engineering works, the rolling stock, and the franchise for operating the railway — all had yet to be triggered.

Back then, HS2 was still in the planning phase.
A distinct, stand-alone project.

But today, things have moved on.
Those plans are now starting to be implemented.

On sites up and down the route, the first enabling works are underway — we’ve begun the utility diversions, land clearance and environmental surveys.

We’ll shortly award the multi-billion-pound contracts for the main engineering works.

In April, we began the hunt for designers for 3 brand new stations, at Curzon Street, Birmingham Interchange and London’s Old Oak Common, as well as the expansion of London Euston.

We’ve launched the competition to design, build and maintain HS2’s fleet of trains, and we expect to award the contract in 2019.

By the end of this year, we expect to deposit the bill for the stretch of track beyond Birmingham and on to Crewe.

And we have announced our preferred route for much of the sections from Crewe to Manchester and Birmingham to Leeds.

Yet today is the start of our integrating this part of the future rail network into the rest of the passenger network.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 11:07 PM   #18843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ennisc View Post
The journey times are just so disappointing. I can already get a train from Euston to Warrington Bank Quay that only takes 1h46m. In 10 years time Liverpool will simply achieve that and scarcely go further. Just 35 minutes off the fastest times with such an enormous project is poor. What would be truly transformational would be getting it down to 1h15m, but I see nothing offering a realistic hope of that.
Well obviously 1hr 15 to Euston instead of 1hr 33 is better and would be more attractive for anyone starting/ending in central Liverpool, but I wouldn't say those 18 minutes are such a huge deal. The trains will still be 41 minutes faster than the average daytime timings today and far more frequent. Of course the 1hr 15 ideal timing you quote would have to mean running non-stop from Liverpool to Old Oak. There is nothing to prevent that happening on the classic route via Runcorn, in which case the comparable timing would be 1hr 24 - just 9 minutes slower.

I see you quote Warrington and the current 1 hr 46 timing / 103mph average speed. In 2027 the hourly HS2 train service will take 1hr 12, an average speed of 152mph. I would call that pretty serious progress, without doubt an unprecedented hike in average speeds. Also nearby Runcorn will have two trains an hour taking 1hr 13, an average of 148mph to Euston. HS2 will certainly transform those journeys.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 11:41 PM   #18844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
Well obviously 1hr 15 to Euston instead of 1hr 33 is better and would be more attractive for anyone starting/ending in central Liverpool, but I wouldn't say those 18 minutes are such a huge deal. The trains will still be 41 minutes faster than the average daytime timings today and far more frequent. Of course the 1hr 15 ideal timing you quote would have to mean running non-stop from Liverpool to Old Oak. There is nothing to prevent that happening on the classic route via Runcorn, in which case the comparable timing would be 1hr 24 - just 9 minutes slower.

I see you quote Warrington and the current 1 hr 46 timing / 103mph average speed. In 2027 the hourly HS2 train service will take 1hr 12, an average speed of 152mph. I would call that pretty serious progress, without doubt an unprecedented hike in average speeds. Also nearby Runcorn will have two trains an hour taking 1hr 13, an average of 148mph to Euston. HS2 will certainly transform those journeys.
Reassuring - thank you.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 12:05 AM   #18845
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The biggest problem is the final 13.1 miles from Runcorn to Lime Street, where HS2 trains will take something like 18 minutes northbound (43mph average) and 17 minutes southbound. The major issues here are the overall low 90mph linespeed, 70mph at the tight Allerton curve, 80 mph maximum onwards until Edge Hill (a long 30mph stretch) and the final slow speed trundle through the cutting with 15mph restricted crossovers into platforms 7-9.

Now I reckon that just half a £billion spent wisely on this classic line section (incorporating an Edge Hill avoiding tunnel) could reduce those running times by 6 minutes - and benefit all the other passenger trains on the line as well. Very expensive works I agree for a general speed-up, but much cheaper per minute saved than building a full HS spur via Culcheth. However NPR might well end up doing that anyway, in which case everyone is happy! We shall see, hopefully in the next 12 months.
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