search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Home Counties and South West England



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 198 votes, 5.00 average.
Old June 1st, 2017, 12:44 AM   #861
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

The existing master plan is overly prescriptive, laying out what each site can be used for. Changes in national policy mean change of use planning applications are now difficult to resist, so it makes more sense to focus on building scale and let the market determine what the space created is then used for. I don't deal with this stuff day-to-day and so the obvious caveats apply that my information could be out of date, but my expectation is any refresh won't spend as much effort allocating individual sites. Fratton remains outside the city centre.
__________________

RickLW liked this post
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:12 PM   #862
Mustard Master
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 35
Likes (Received): 2

Not bad, but honestly I see a lot of potential at Fratton especially the train station, a whole shopping complex could be built right above the train tracks, the wider it gets the closer it would be to commercial road and that main road which I don't remember its name. So connecting all those areas with streets full of shops and attractions would be very nice.
Fratton is the actual center of the city and the stadium is right there, there is a big tesco and a few good fast food restaurants, why is it not as important as gunwharf? Well it can be even better, having the train tracks go through a potential shopping area alone is so nice, imagine connecting that area to the current city center then connecting that to Gunwharf through Queens street. Thank you..
__________________

RickLW liked this post
Mustard Master no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2017, 11:39 PM   #863
RickLW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Devon/Plymouth/ London
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 122

I put a 'like' on the comment because it reminded me of the new Birmingham N S. There the station and the shops intermingle on different levels. It certainly creates a good buzz and lively experience. It feels like you are somewhere!
RickLW no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #864
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

Thing is, there's no demand for town centre retail anymore. As more and more moves online and out-of-town continues to grow, the only way of getting any additional space built will be as part of a wider scheme, with the housing element effectively subsidising the development of new shops (and potentially offices)
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #865
Mustard Master
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 35
Likes (Received): 2

That is great, let flats be built on top of retail or offices on top of retail as well. That is exactly what should happen.
Mustard Master no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #866
EllisHampton
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 224
Likes (Received): 37

Any news on any more developments on the Station side of Catherine House? I recall there was a residential/hotel plan early on. Seem to remember the same company who worked on the Hilton in Bournemouth having plans.
EllisHampton no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2017, 01:21 PM   #867
stefeni-ts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 279
Likes (Received): 39

That site was originally planned to be the Travalodge, but plans have now been submitted for The Travelodge to be the other side of Catherine house, I have heard the site you are talking about though could still become a hotel but I have not yet seen any plans submitted
stefeni-ts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2017, 08:09 PM   #868
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

The site between the station and Catherine House was the subject of a developer consultation last summer and at the time the proposal was for two hotels. There's been some commercial issues with that. As I'm no longer directly involved with it, I don't know the current state of play, but my expectation is that a scheme will come forward.
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #869
ViennaPompey
In Pompey we Trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 104
Likes (Received): 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Stubbs View Post
The site between the station and Catherine House was the subject of a developer consultation last summer and at the time the proposal was for two hotels. There's been some commercial issues with that. As I'm no longer directly involved with it, I don't know the current state of play, but my expectation is that a scheme will come forward.
Luke, what needs to happen at PCC is an approach to link up our key sites within the city centre. For me Queen Street, Bishop Crispian Way and Edinburgh Road should be a key focus area. Linking up the Historic Dockyard and Commercial road should be a priority. The footfall along this road is huge, however it is dotted with converted shops to housing (poorly done) where it should be dotted with art galleries, coffee shops and antiques shops full of tourists. It's actually criminal what PCC's planning department have allowed to happen to this street. It portrays a very poor image to the millions of tourists that travel down it every year.

On the subject of Queen Street, have we any news on what is happening with the Officers Quarters on Queen street? Hopefully a conversion to a hotel as this is a prime location for a up market hotel in Portsmouth.
ViennaPompey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #870
EllisHampton
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 224
Likes (Received): 37

Plans to turn derelict site at The Hard in 8.8 million Hotel



PLANS have been submitted to turn a derelict site into a new £8.8m hotel and restaurant. Premier Inn wants to build the 120-bedroom hotel and adjoining restaurant on Queen Street at The Hard in Portsmouth.


http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/business...otel-1-8000394

Every time I look at this site I think a hotel would look great there. It serves as a 'gateway' into the Hard so good to see plans.
EllisHampton no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #871
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

Planning policy needs to take account of what the market wants to build. Allocating something on a map will not make it happen and with there being no state money available to provide subsidies, the council cannot get directly involved. That means while I agree that linking the city centre/Guildhall to Gunwharf/The Hard would be really nice, there is unlikely to be much progress towards it beyond a continuance of the housing-led regeneration that has been slowing changing Portsea for the last 15 years.

Technologically driven change means demand for retail and office space has dried up. Gunwharf could probably expand if it could secure additional land and something could happen in the Northern Quarter site by using retail to lift the sale price of the surrounding properties. Getting people to open shops, etc along Queen St though is just not feasible anymore.

As for the Ward Room, I'm not aware of anything happening and the government has not vacated the site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViennaPompey View Post
Luke, what needs to happen at PCC is an approach to link up our key sites within the city centre. For me Queen Street, Bishop Crispian Way and Edinburgh Road should be a key focus area. Linking up the Historic Dockyard and Commercial road should be a priority. The footfall along this road is huge, however it is dotted with converted shops to housing (poorly done) where it should be dotted with art galleries, coffee shops and antiques shops full of tourists. It's actually criminal what PCC's planning department have allowed to happen to this street. It portrays a very poor image to the millions of tourists that travel down it every year.

On the subject of Queen Street, have we any news on what is happening with the Officers Quarters on Queen street? Hopefully a conversion to a hotel as this is a prime location for a up market hotel in Portsmouth.
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #872
ViennaPompey
In Pompey we Trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 104
Likes (Received): 18

Queen Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Stubbs View Post
Planning policy needs to take account of what the market wants to build. Allocating something on a map will not make it happen and with there being no state money available to provide subsidies, the council cannot get directly involved. That means while I agree that linking the city centre/Guildhall to Gunwharf/The Hard would be really nice, there is unlikely to be much progress towards it beyond a continuance of the housing-led regeneration that has been slowing changing Portsea for the last 15 years.

Technologically driven change means demand for retail and office space has dried up. Gunwharf could probably expand if it could secure additional land and something could happen in the Northern Quarter site by using retail to lift the sale price of the surrounding properties. Getting people to open shops, etc along Queen St though is just not feasible anymore.

As for the Ward Room, I'm not aware of anything happening and the government has not vacated the site.
Luke, I do agree that the retail market is changing due to the ways that consumers are now shopping, however their are a number of innovative ways that PCC could use to help with the regeneration of an area like Queen Street.

Planning policy could stop shop units from being converted into low cost bedsits. Rate relief for small businesses should help, as would a regeneration budget for the street. Also the council has been purchasing commercial properties for its portfolio, surely purchasing properties to improve an area should be part of the councils strategy.
ViennaPompey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2017, 08:43 PM   #873
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

I don’t want to sound too downbeat – the council can and does influence patterns of development, but it cannot afford much direct involvement in building schemes out given the pressures on budgets (down 44% since 2011).

Personally, I would love to see millions spent on making the city centre more attractive and I have managed to get a couple of admittedly minor schemes financed – the Commercial Road paving and a scheme that will not start until into next year to improve the public realm around Isambard Kingdom Brunel Road.

Not only are parts of retail moving online, but trade is also shifting to retail parks: there was a report earlier this week suggesting that nationwide footfall in High Streets is down by 2% this year, but out-of-town is up by 1.5%. I just don’t think there is demand for any incremental retail schemes in the city. A transformative regeneration of the Northern Quarter area could lead to a step change in the city centre, but there is no call for the odd extra shop here and there. Ultimately the council has to put its limited resources into securing the big prize.

The investment fund is also widely misunderstood. As all the money is borrowed, the council cannot take risks: it does not have the reserves to withstand significant losses. That means it can only acquire sites with tenants already secured and paying money and where the prospects for keeping the site let in future are high. It just can’t use it for regeneration schemes that the market will not develop.

On a couple of specifics: the conversion of small shops to housing is now permitted development - i.e. development that does not require planning consent; the council will also try to increase the impact of its regeneration team and that may include a few modest capital schemes.

The Commercial Road situation is a real worry, but with all the shops and almost all of the car parks privately owned, the scope to act is limited. The large student developments should help to at least some extent and I personally would welcome some build-to-let housing in the central area.
__________________

RickLW liked this post
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #874
RickLW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Devon/Plymouth/ London
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 122

I like your comments and noted your figures. This applies to many places and threads on here, so will take note of the points. Best wishes for all the best projects going ahead in Pompey!
RickLW no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2017, 11:52 AM   #875
Eric_221992
New_HollandFan
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Havant
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 2

Interesting but places like Brighton, Southampton, Reading and Oxford are developing their own centres and doing really well
Eric_221992 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2017, 07:57 PM   #876
ViennaPompey
In Pompey we Trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 104
Likes (Received): 18

I agree with eric

I personally think the demise of portsmouth city centre has little to do with changing changing shopping habbits and more to do with miss management from pcc.
The most succesful regional shopping centre is s**thampton, why because numerous offices are based near the centre, supplying working shoppers during the week. Portsnouth cc on the other hand have allowed the conversion of every major office block in the centre of portsmouth into housing. Therfore no midweek shoppers to sustain the city centre shops. Instead of building more housing on the former northern quarter build offices. It is a perfect location, at the end of a motorway and within walking distance of all major public transport links.
ViennaPompey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2017, 09:47 PM   #877
ViennaPompey
In Pompey we Trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 104
Likes (Received): 18

I agree with eric

I personally think the demise of portsmouth city centre has little to do with changing changing shopping habbits and more to do with miss management from pcc.
The most succesful regional shopping centre is s**thampton, why because numerous offices are based near the centre, supplying working shoppers during the week. Portsnouth cc on the other hand have allowed the conversion of every major office block in the centre of portsmouth into housing. Therfore no midweek shoppers to sustain the city centre shops. Instead of building more housing on the former northern quarter build offices. It is a perfect location, at the end of a motorway and within walking distance of all major public transport links.
ViennaPompey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #878
EllisHampton
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 224
Likes (Received): 37

Thing is Portsmouth just doesn't have the big 'city office' appeal. It might be just the way the city is laid out and the dynamic of being on an island. Look at Gunwharf for instance. There's not been a real big increase in office properties around the complex at all. Giving focus on smaller businesses and helping them is better then building these big tower blocks and hoping a big company takes the chance. I think we will see an increase, but slowly. Student accommodation is booming and hotels are following. We have the university, tourism and events so it's not like the city is missing out.
EllisHampton no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #879
ViennaPompey
In Pompey we Trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 104
Likes (Received): 18

Sorry ellis

But that is wrong. Growing up in portsmouth i can remember the likes of john brown, pall and zurich to name a few that have all since moved out of the city, their biggest complaint was the lack of parking and congestion. If the council had a strategy to entice more office building on the former northern quarter then you would completely revitilise commercial road and provide greater employment for the region. The site has many attributes, motorway access, transport infrastructure in place already, shopping facilities on the door step etc.
The councils decision to entice more hotel space into the city is working so would the same strategy for office building.
ViennaPompey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #880
Luke Stubbs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 2

But this ignores two critical points. Firstly, following changes in national policy in 2013, the conversion of office space to housing does not require planning consent. This means the council has been powerless to resist the loss of employment floor space that has occurred.

Even after all the falls that have occurred, office rents are still about the same per square foot as for housing, so there’s no incentive to spend money converting occupied space (although there is in London). The problem is that so much space has been empty. The other problem is that the permitted development rights been that converted office space does not have to comply with the minimum space standards that apply to all other forms of development. This means some tiny flats are being created and some of these are actually worth more per square foot.

The second issue is one of viability. The reason why nothing has been built at the Northern Quarter is because it would not be profitable. There are no subsidies available, beyond hopefully for the road scheme, so the key getting development is coming up with something that pays for itself. A retail development would lose money, but if done nicely would increase the sale/rental values in the surrounding area. So the model is a scheme that is viable in its totality, with all the profit coming from residential development; insist on office, which is not profitable, and nothing will ever be built. I’d sooner have a new employment and leisure centre, but we have to work with the market if we’re going to make any progress.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ViennaPompey View Post
But that is wrong. Growing up in portsmouth i can remember the likes of john brown, pall and zurich to name a few that have all since moved out of the city, their biggest complaint was the lack of parking and congestion. If the council had a strategy to entice more office building on the former northern quarter then you would completely revitilise commercial road and provide greater employment for the region. The site has many attributes, motorway access, transport infrastructure in place already, shopping facilities on the door step etc.
The councils decision to entice more hotel space into the city is working so would the same strategy for office building.
Luke Stubbs no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
development summary, portsmouth

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu