daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Transport, Urban Planning and Infrastructure

Transport, Urban Planning and Infrastructure Shaping space, urbanity and mobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 20th, 2017, 10:41 PM   #19721
Dobbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,428
Likes (Received): 252

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroSoldier View Post
So all this really shows is that you mislead us into thinking tickets from Manchester are more expensive when they are in fact equal. Do you were wrong.
Perhaps inventing an imaginary train and ticket price would have satisfied you?
Dobbo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 20th, 2017, 10:55 PM   #19722
ElectroSoldier
Registered User
 
ElectroSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,977
Likes (Received): 298

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
While I'm at it, I noticed that Virgin have just released the bookings for week commencing Monday 8th January 2018. The results show beyond doubt that Manchester never gets the cheap fares that Liverpool (and Runcorn) get.


Thursday 11th January 2018.

Liverpool Lime Street - Dep 08.47, £17.00 advance fare.
Manchester Piccadilly - Dep 08.35, £33.00 advance fare.
Manchester Piccadilly - Dep 08.55, £33.00 advance fare.


This information I trust shuts down this debate forever!

NRE links here:
Manchester: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servic...10118/0830/dep
Liverpool:
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servic...10118/0830/dep
So you searched through all the tickets between now and the 8th January and managed to cone up with one single sale offer...
You really were desperate went you.
All you have shown is they are usually equal which means you are wrong.
Plain and simple
ElectroSoldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2017, 10:56 PM   #19723
ElectroSoldier
Registered User
 
ElectroSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,977
Likes (Received): 298

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Perhaps inventing an imaginary train and ticket price would have satisfied you?
No, not lying and inventing data to support your claim will do

Last edited by ElectroSoldier; October 20th, 2017 at 11:16 PM.
ElectroSoldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2017, 11:18 PM   #19724
ElectroSoldier
Registered User
 
ElectroSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,977
Likes (Received): 298

It is gratifying to see though that instead of acknowledging the ticket prices are equal and discussing that you focus on fluff...
It only shows me you knew it was a lie in the first place vulcan
ElectroSoldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 12:46 AM   #19725
Burlington Bolshevik
Red. White. Black
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 354
Likes (Received): 131

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroSoldier View Post
It is gratifying to see though that instead of acknowledging the ticket prices are equal and discussing that you focus on fluff...
It only shows me you knew it was a lie in the first place vulcan
You’ve had an absolute nightmare here over the last few days mate.

Just log off for a while and when you come back we’ll all pretend it never happened.
__________________

Vulcan's Finest, mr_jrt liked this post
Burlington Bolshevik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 12:51 AM   #19726
ElectroSoldier
Registered User
 
ElectroSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,977
Likes (Received): 298

You'd like to think that wouldn't you.
I still proved he is talking a load of rubbish about the different prices.

The only way he could show a cheaper price is to use a different station lol
ElectroSoldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 01:21 AM   #19727
Vulcan's Finest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: None these days.
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 1602

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroSoldier View Post
You'd like to think that wouldn't you.
I still proved he is talking a load of rubbish about the different prices.

The only way he could show a cheaper price is to use a different station lol
You really are a clown of the highest order aren't you? The hole you have dug for yourself will take a very long time to fill - you are way out of your depth on the subject of tickets, yields, prices etc. and every bit of bluster you utter makes it worse.

For the record, it was you who chose to use a Thursday in November (23rd) to make your imaginary claim about supposedly 'more expensive' fares from Lime Street. Then you whined about my not comparing Liverpool with Manchester. So I did exactly that and proved you lied.

Later I simply used National Rail enquiries to look as far into the future on a Thursday as it is possible. Which is 11/01/18.

The result - Liverpool is £17, Manchester is £33. I know you are a bit lacking, but it is incredibly simple - it means it is almost twice as expensive on that day in January to travel from Manchester to London as it is from Liverpool (at the times that you chose).
Vulcan's Finest no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 01:31 AM   #19728
Vulcan's Finest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: None these days.
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 1602

Anyway, stepping away from trying to reason with irrational people....


Calls for Toton to open in 2030, three years early!


http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/eastm...-toton-station


Quote:
"HS2 and the Department for Transport (DfT) have been urged to speed up plans for the new hub station at Toton to bring development in the East Midlands.

Reports in Construction News suggest that the DfT has faced calls from East Midlands councils to change the plans for HS2’s second phase to bring the opening of the new station forward by three years from 2033 to 2030.

The amendment is just one of the proposals for the phase 2b hybrid bill put forward by the East Midlands HS2 Growth Strategy".

The $64,000 question(s) - would there be enough platforms available at Euston in 2030 to platform say 2TPH from Toton? And would there be enough trains to run a service, assuming that only 60 are ordered in 2019?
Vulcan's Finest no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 01:41 AM   #19729
Vulcan's Finest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: None these days.
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 1602

Plans are in hand to upgrade Stoke Station (which has a lot of character) by adding extra through platforms. HS2 is being used as the reason to do it, although it probably needs to happen anyway.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-ahead-of-hs2

Quote:
"HS2 connections are expected to make Stoke a central location in the new rail network, with rapid links to Birmingham and Manchester, as well as journeys of less than an hour into London.

Duncan Sutherland, non-executive director on the board of HS2 Ltd, welcomed the development plans and said the area was “incredibly important to the UK.”
Mmm - this statement is a bit dubious in parts. Links to Brum and Manchester aren't particularly quick and HS2 can't help them in that regard. As for the claim of an hour to London - err, sorry, no. Going via Stafford it will be about 70 minutes. Which actually isn't hugely quicker than today (I've done Stoke to Euston non-stop in a Virgin Pendolino in just 81 minutes).
Vulcan's Finest no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 02:29 AM   #19730
Vulcan's Finest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: None these days.
Posts: 7,165
Likes (Received): 1602

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Crewe could also be on the NPR network if, for example, the Birmingham trains to Manchester were incorporated into that network?

Sorry, I meant to answer this the other day. Logically if NPR commits to buying 330 km/h capable trainsets there is a lot of sense in doing exactly what you say. In fact this service would make a lot of sense IMHO.

Curzon St
Crewe 29 minutes
Manchester Airport 45 minutes
Manchester Piccadilly (Lower level platforms) 55 minutes
Bradford (if NPR goes that way) 80 minutes
Leeds (85-90 minutes?)
York (105-110 minutes)

Clearly it would be of little use for Birmingham to Leeds or York - you would expect passengers to catch a quicker HS2 service via the eastern branch. It would however speed up a lot of other journeys....
Vulcan's Finest no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 12:28 PM   #19731
Merswy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 404
Likes (Received): 148

If HS2 is supposed to rebalance the national economy then why isn't Stoke more successful considering the good links to London it already has?
Merswy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 12:58 PM   #19732
Scott Darwin
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 344
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merswy View Post
If HS2 is supposed to rebalance the national economy then why isn't Stoke more successful considering the good links to London it already has?
Two things

Firstly and most importantly good rail connections make economic prosperity possible, it's not going to deliver it in its own right though.

Secondly, Stoke actually has a good impact on the wealth of the area, plenty of wealthy towns and villages close by that will have many inhabitants that owe some of their wealth to those rail connections.

Stoke also has very good connections into Manchester and Birmingham with many of the local population commuting daily to those cities on very busy trains, HS2 will obviously make these peoples commutes far nicer in less crowded trains.
Scott Darwin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 02:15 PM   #19733
Gavrosh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,836
Likes (Received): 1387

If Stoke were in the US it'd be a ghost town by now.

There's no reason for it to exist anymore.
Gavrosh está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 02:43 PM   #19734
Salif
Registered User
 
Salif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,794
Likes (Received): 328

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
Plans are in hand to upgrade Stoke Station (which has a lot of character) by adding extra through platforms.
I think we have quite a few stations with outdated terminating platform dominant layouts that could do with modifying. Just off the top of my head if a new concourse could be sited elsewhere platforms 9-12 at Newcastle Central could be extended throughout the station to form through platforms. An HS2 report has 9 and 10 being extended as an option for 400 metre long trains.

At York platforms 6 and 7 could be extended to meet with platform 8.

And at Edinburgh Waverley platforms 12-18 could go the full length of the station.

All of these suggestions would require costly resiting of facilities and likely an under-pass/bridge. But I think this is a benefit, those stations suffer from clutter and this would open them up a lot more. Edinburgh Waverley would look terrific with a new bridge over it looking down onto an open station. Rather than that mess they have in the centre of the station currently. And with longer platforms they can be split up to accommodate more trains. I dare say in some cases centre tracks could be added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavrosh View Post
If Stoke were in the US it'd be a ghost town by now.

There's no reason for it to exist anymore.
The same can be said for a lot of places in this country.
Salif está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 03:35 PM   #19735
nathan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 64
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavrosh View Post
If Stoke were in the US it'd be a ghost town by now.

There's no reason for it to exist anymore.
That would be true if the ceramics industry had completely disappeared from the Potteries - but it hasn’t. There are 7000 jobs in the sector in north Staffordshire.
http://www.visitstoke.co.uk/ceramics...ics-today.aspx

I’m from Cardiff but I spend a great deal of time in the Stoke area as my girlfriend lives there. House prices are roughly half of those in Cardiff. For someone of my age (nearly 50) who doesn’t like shopping there is very little difference between the two cities. What can I do in Cardiff (or Manchester or Brum) that I can’t do in Stoke? Go to the Opera or watch professional Rugby?

If I was younger then I’d be drawn to a trendier city but when I sell up in Cardiff and move to a nice part of Newcastle-under-Lyme I will be living in comparative luxury. And when HS2 opens I will be a very brief journey from Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and London.

My analysis is that property prices in the nicer parts of the Potteries will rise spectacularly. Due to the multi-centred nature of the conurbation there are many areas to go for a drink or a bite to eat - Hanley, Newcastle, Stoke and Burslem, with Penkhull and Hartshill becoming quite fashionable.

Don’t let snobbery blind you to the fact that if you have even a moderate income, Stoke is a good place to live that offers a good quality of life.
__________________

aeolian liked this post
nathan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 07:53 PM   #19736
Gavrosh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,836
Likes (Received): 1387

Best of luck with that. I had some good times there when my girlfriend was a student there but it was more a case of us making it good rather than the city (through the £10 all you can drink Saturday nights at the sugarmill in Hanley were fun and Al Shafiks in stoke upon Trent did a marvellous balti when it was open). You're probably right about it benefiting from HS2 greatly mind, so there may be hope for it.
__________________

nathan liked this post
Gavrosh está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 08:36 PM   #19737
ElectroSoldier
Registered User
 
ElectroSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,977
Likes (Received): 298

I don't know how you can quantify value Virgin place on the value of a route based on its most advanced tickets.
It's a good case of taking raw data without taking Amy factors for the reasons behind it into consideration.
Especially as they gain parity the closer the dates go to the current one.
ElectroSoldier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 09:02 PM   #19738
Scott Darwin
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 344
Likes (Received): 85

Open return comparison shows an expected result, Manchester to Euston is £338 compared to £318 from Liverpool.

Understandable, the frequency is far better from Manchester as an Open Ticket offers almost three times the choice.

However, the comparison of advanced tickets is choosing comparable offerings, you've got to take the train you've chosen, all those other trains are wholly irrelevant

Liverpool has cheaper advanced tickets full stop, cheapest offering from Virgin to Liverpool is £17 to Euston, £23 from Manchester.

Why?
Scott Darwin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 09:13 PM   #19739
Gavrosh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,836
Likes (Received): 1387

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
Sorry, I meant to answer this the other day. Logically if NPR commits to buying 330 km/h capable trainsets there is a lot of sense in doing exactly what you say. In fact this service would make a lot of sense IMHO.

Curzon St
Crewe 29 minutes
Manchester Airport 45 minutes
Manchester Piccadilly (Lower level platforms) 55 minutes
Bradford (if NPR goes that way) 80 minutes
Leeds (85-90 minutes?)
York (105-110 minutes)

Clearly it would be of little use for Birmingham to Leeds or York - you would expect passengers to catch a quicker HS2 service via the eastern branch. It would however speed up a lot of other journeys....
How about a Birmingham to Liverpool via Crewe service? Why do all you train people always fetishise about routes that involve Manchester?
Gavrosh está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2017, 09:26 PM   #19740
Burlington Bolshevik
Red. White. Black
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 354
Likes (Received): 131

I think the project has just hit an insurmountable problem...

just look at the size of that hole!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...oute-8g9kfw5gd

Cancel Phase 2 now!
__________________

sotonsi, nidave, TRaji00 liked this post
Burlington Bolshevik no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
high speed rail, hs2, rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu