daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #11601
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 33,701
Likes (Received): 4543

Yes, that figure is highly affected by the natural gas extraction. In reality it is the least wealthy area of the Netherlands, except for Groningen City. It's not that incomes are necessarily lower, but fewer people have high-paying jobs. It's mostly a 'blue-collar' region.
__________________

my clinched highways • highway pictures @ Flickr and Youtube
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old Today, 04:26 AM   #11602
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 22,470
Likes (Received): 1427

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The second 'Limes Aquaduct' opened to traffic this night. Traffic has been shifted onto the new northbound aquaduct, so traffic is now separated. The image is looking north. The layout of 1+2+2+1 south of the aquaduct has been critized. It is feared that they both don't have sufficient capacity (flexibility) compared to 2x3. It would've been better with 2x3 plus auxiliary lanes between the two exits that the local lanes serve.
I drove through the new aquaduct twice yesterday. It looks beautiful and the colors are different and more appealing than in the first aquaduct which is only two years or so older. Since they have enough space there, and seeing many construction equipment in the older aquaduct my guess is that they will rearrange the road and possibly upgrade the walls with the same colors abs materials they have used in the newest aquaduct.

But they will need at least the fourth lane very soon. Hopefully they will start the preparations for that a.s.a.p.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:31 AM   #11603
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 22,470
Likes (Received): 1427

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
Couldn't agree more. Especially the fact that their design (and weight) is generally similar do that of a full blown scooter, they drive faster than 25kph most of the time (and they stink and probably pollute like hell) makes them a very undesirable addition to our bike lanes. We should get rid of them as fast as we can.
Totally agree. One scooter pollutes the air more than 10 cars or two trucks or something along these lines. I don't have a link to that right now, but I have read studies before which had such outcomes. If we want to be serious about reducing pollution of the air, especially in cities, electric powered scooters is the only sensible way to go. Also the horrific loud noise they make should be forbidden a.s.a.p.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:00 AM   #11604
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 694
Likes (Received): 164

scooter pollution is just because of poor / cheap engine design... car engines are very low polluting today because of various legal requirements and also performance requirements (fuel efficiency especially, 1% improvement on 10 L/100 km is desirable, 1% improvement on 1 L/100 km nobody cares), but that kind of design is expensive, probably would increase scooter price by 1000 euro. But you would burn half the gasoline... saving you 10 euro
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:19 AM   #11605
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 736
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
Totally agree. One scooter pollutes the air more than 10 cars or two trucks or something along these lines. I don't have a link to that right now, but I have read studies before which had such outcomes. If we want to be serious about reducing pollution of the air, especially in cities, electric powered scooters is the only sensible way to go. Also the horrific loud noise they make should be forbidden a.s.a.p.
That's partially because of the regulations for maximum speed ( 25 of 45 km/h).

Just removing the limiter on the variomatic on my scooter means it'll go 75 km/h instead of 45 km/h, with otherwise all stock parts. So it'll go 45 km/h on much lower RPM if de-limited and be more fuel efficient and less polluting. Think of it as gears on your car. Scooters ( be it blue plated at 25, or yellow plated at 45 km/h) that are stock, driving at full speed, are the equivalent of a car ( without an ECU and a carburettor) driving 50 km/h in first gear, due to the stupid limiters on the vario, making them do silly high revs on low speeds. Simply because the amount of fuel mixture the engine gets is regulated by RPM and the fuel:air ratio is fixed by whatever your carburettor is set at. A car is much smarter due to regulating the amount of fuel injected electronically.

25 km/h scooters are much more dramatic, not only do they make silly high revs on 25 km/h ( only just slightly lower than 45km/h counterparts), the engines are also choked from air by limiters in the exhaust, in the intake, etc, affecting the ''cleanliness'' of the burn. The last limitation is often in the ignition, but it is all very dumb ( but simple/not prone to breakdowns), not computer regulated like cars. Therefore a 25km/h blue plate ''stock'' scooter will pull nearly just as much fuel at 25 km/h, as a yellow plated one at 45 km/h, and both doing pretty much the same RPM ( blue plated ones slightly less probably due to limiters in the exhaust or intake). I can understand ( hell I do it myself) how a de-limited scooter usually means people will be speeding. But a physically limited scooter @ 25km/h is much more polluting much more per mile than a de-limited scooter.

I have tested this on my own scooter, checking the fuel usage @ 40 ish km/h de-limited vs limited. I could travel significantly further de-limited but simply using less throttle ( I could actually travel an extra day without fueling up) when I dumped vario limiter (a plate that doesn't allow the vario cones to extend further) on my Peugeot Ludix. It'd go 75 km/h de-limited, but at ''legal'' speeds like 45 km/h, it would ride on much lower RPM, therefore pulling less fuel and air from the carburettor, allowing me to do that speed with the throttle at only half or so and on nice low RPM.

The 2nd problem for the pollution is the fact that two stroke engines simply always burn oil, because it is mixed with the fuel. This problem is slowly going away, by the fact that pretty much all new scooters are 4 stroke ( but even the 4 stroke ones are still relatively quite polluting, due to the ''dumbness''/simplicity of the ignition and fuel system, and of course, the silly limiters on the gearing/variomatic making ''legal'' 25km/h blue plates making extremely high revs unnecessarily at very low speeds).




A different design, like an automatic gearbox, like on the very popular Tomos mopeds in Holland, these ones are also pretty much identical ( blue plates vs yellow plates). These are 2 gear, chain driven mopeds, with the blue plated ones being slightly choked ( extra rubber hose in the air filter for choking, extra ''S'' curve in the exhaust for choking, and a slightly regulated ( less petrol) carburetter less power) , a bigger cogwheel on the rear wheel so it makes more rpm at lower speed. Again the solution is mostly by making the engine do more RPM on a lower speed, a very inefficient way of limiting, very bad for fuel economy or a ''clean burn''.

50cc engines, both two and four stroke, have to much power for 25 km/h, and most of these are ''quickly/easily'' limited by the manufacturer for the NL market, mostly by making them do much higher RPM for the same speeds as the 45 km/h counterparts. There are models that are completely identical for blue and yellow plate, aside from a limitation on the gearing.

Last edited by snowdog; Today at 05:49 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:43 AM   #11606
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 694
Likes (Received): 164

I can't believe they are limiting the speed by blocking the CVT instead of a simple / efficient throttle governor (legal thing?)
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:52 AM   #11607
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 736
Likes (Received): 42

That probably isn't used because it's easy(easier) to remove and goes at the cost of acceleration. But yeah, (afaik) pretty much all scooters, both the 45 and 25 km/h ones, have blockades on the CVT, in shop/as sold anyhow.

25 km/h versions are often limited additionally on the CVT, and by power slightly by choking it from air ( both on the intake and exhaust) in combination with a smaller carburettor jet ( to compensate for the less air).

Which is why most scooters will easily do 65-70 km/h by just removing the CVT blockage ( often a plate ( Peugeot scooters) or a ring (most other brands) preventing the cones to extend further).

Last edited by snowdog; Today at 05:57 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:10 AM   #11608
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 694
Likes (Received): 164

Are speed limiters on cars as common in EU as in the USA? I think not. A lot of cars in North America are limited to about 180 km/h despite strong engines. Newer cars with electronic throttle will just back off the throttle, so you just maintain 180, but 1990's cars often had a "hard" limiter where the engine would cut out and then run and cut out as it would not fire injectors if the VSS read 181 km/h, it was insanity
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:33 AM   #11609
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 736
Likes (Received): 42

Most German cars are limited to 250 km/h, JDM cars ( but not Japenese cars meant for the EU market) are limited to 180 or 190 km/h, HGV trucks are limited to 85-90km/h but I'm not aware of any limitations otherwise.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:40 AM   #11610
keokiracer
roadgeek from Holland
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 2,813
Likes (Received): 1107

Aren't motorbikes limited to 299 or 300?
keokiracer está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
congestion, dutch, friesland, highways, motorways, netherlands

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu