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Southeast Transit/Commuter Rail/HSR Thread

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#1 · (Edited)
Southeast Transit/Commuter Rail/HSR Thread

For discussion and news regarding urban transit, regional commuter rail and high speed rail projects in the Southeast!

 
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#2 ·
Some recent Texas brouhaha:
Ft. Worth Star Telegram

Dispute may derail arrival of high-speed trains in D-FW
Posted Wednesday, May. 11, 2011

By Gordon Dickson

gdickson@star-telegram.com

ARLINGTON -- Just as the effort to bring high-speed rail to Texas is gaining steam, a dispute over what kind of service to bring to the state and where to build the stations threatens to derail the project.

Tarrant County Commissioner Gary Fickes is among those who favors 200-mph trains on elevated tracks -- possibly on right of way along Texas 360 in Arlington -- to one station at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport. From there, a passenger could hop on a train and be in Houston in about 80 minutes, stopping only a few times to pick up passengers along the 250-mile journey.

Such a system would cost much more than other proposals but could be privately funded, and would be better for the state long term, Fickes argues. A Japanese company has already moved to Texas to put together a bullet-train proposal. "I don't want to spend $5 billion to $10 billion for something that will fail, when we could do something better that could last us 100 years," Fickes said. He is chairman of the Texas High Speed Rail and Transportation Corp., which for several years has tried to align political and business forces to get a bullet-style train system built in the state.

But other North Texas officials favor improving existing freight rail lines so they could serve not only D/FW Airport, but also the downtowns of Fort Worth and Dallas, and foster new development in the city centers. Today, passenger trains in the populated areas can go no more than 79 mph in freight corridors, but with several billion dollars of improvements, supporters believe that they could achieve speeds of up to 150 mph.

The downtown-centric plan is favored by officials in Fort Worth and Dallas and endorsed by the Regional Transportation Council, the region's official planning body, which will discuss the issue today in Arlington. Either type of train service could meet the definition of high-speed rail. "Our previous mayor, the current mayor and the next mayor has made a decision that we want this rail coming to Union Station [in downtown Dallas], and I believe Fort Worth is in a similar situation," said Dallas Councilman Ron Natinsky, regional council chairman and a Dallas mayoral candidate.

Recent progress

Texas is many years behind other states in developing high-speed rail, but it has made progress in recent months. The Texas Department of Transportation created a rail division and is pursuing a broad plan to eventually connect North Texas to Austin, Houston, San Antonio and cities in neighboring states such as Oklahoma City and Little Rock.

On Monday, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced that $15 million had been awarded to Texas for design of a high-speed rail line connecting Dallas-Fort Worth to Houston. It was part of a $2 billion program that included the redistribution of money initially awarded to Florida for development of a high-speed-rail line from Tampa to Orlando.

In Texas, the Transportation Department has initiated a study of high-speed rail from Oklahoma City to South Texas, following the route used by Amtrak's Heartland Flyer and Texas Eagle, both of which stop each day in Fort Worth. The agency received a $5.8 million high-speed-rail grant last year and is taking the initial steps toward modeling ridership and analyzing the impact of such a project.

Ruffled feathers

Last month the regional council approved its Mobility 2035 plan that called for high-speed-rail stations to be built in downtown Fort Worth and Dallas, meaning that at least temporarily, the plan for bullet-style trains serving a single station at D/FW Airport won't be pursued.

That ruffled the feathers of Fickes and others who think that council members acted hastily, without giving them a chance to explain the benefits of the other option. A Japanese company, JR Central Railway, has set up shop in Texas and plans to submit a proposal to build the high-speed-rail line from D/FW to Houston with private-sector funding, said Fickes, who added that he has met with the group several times.

Lone Star High Speed Rail believes that the D/FW-to-Houston line can be built without federal or state funding, although the cooperation of government agencies would be needed for planning, environmental review and any right of way crossing public property. The idea would be to build a rail service that is paid for by passengers, said Robert Eckels, a former Harris County judge and president of Lone Star High Speed Rail.

But regional council members noted during a high-speed rail committee meeting last week that, although they've heard rumors for several years about the private sector's interest in a D/FW-to-Houston line, they've never actually seen a document spelling out the details and commitments. "Our plan is to welcome whoever rings our doorbell," said Michael Morris, North Central Texas Council of Governments transportation director.



Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/11/3069057/dispute-may-derail-arrival-of.html#ixzz1OAU9lCos
 
#4 ·
Georgia, Tennessee partner to request $34 million for HSR project

The Georgia and Tennessee departments of transportation have partnered to file an application seeking $34 million in Federal Railroad Administration FY2010 appropriation grants to advance development of high-speed rail service between Atlanta and Chattanooga, Tenn.

The line is designed to stretch to Nashville, Tenn., and then, eventually, to Louisville, Ky.


The proceeds would help support ongoing environmental planning and engineering work between Atlanta and Chattanooga, fund design-approved stations along the corridor, and pay for the creation of a comprehensive plan for high-speed service that eventually would stretch from Florida to Chicago, GDOT officials said in a prepared statement.

Under the FY2010 appropriations grant program, the FRA will provide $2.1 billion in HSR grants and an additional $245 million for individual construction projects within an HSR corridor. The agency expects to announce grant awards for the separate $2.1 billion and $245 million in FY2010 appropriations by Sept. 30.
Source
 
#9 ·
^^ To further elaborate on DPs statement. The funding of HSR in the Northeast Megalopolis and California are hopefully the beginning of a nationwide system which will be expanded upon. For the time being they are stand alone systems but over the decades to come they will become interconected. The refusal of funding by Florida's governor could setback HSR in the greater southeast area such as GA, SC and NC as the system expands southward from the Northeast rather than northward from Florida.
 
#15 ·
I saw an advertisement on TV about this train where they bragged about it and then said, "But it's not in America....it's in CHINA". Then they tell you that you should begin investing in China....when will people in the USA/Government wake up? Am I the only one that see's what's going on here? Love it, China..show the US how to do it...we are so f@#in backward.


 
#16 ·
Every fully industrialized country in the world already has High Speed Rail...except the USA.

Every country with an emerging economy is investing in High Speed Rail...except the USA.

To combat the global recession, all major countries are investing heavily in High Speed Rail...except the USA.

When the recession is over, all of the above countries will be in a better position to benefit from the prosperity...

...yep...

...except the USA.

 
#18 ·
DallasObserver

Read TxDOT's Rationale For Need For High Speed Rail Between Houston, DFW (Or ... Not?)
By Robert WilonskyFri., Nov. 4 2011



On Tuesday we noted that the Texas Department of Transportation is looking for a firm to ID would-be routes for a high-speed rail line between Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth, using $15 million in Federal Railway Administration High-Speed Intercity Passenger Rail Program funds awarded over the summer. Shortly after that, this landed in the Unfair Park in-box courtesy an interested party out of Houston: TxDOT's summary of the project, which was sent to the feds earlier this year.

Full of maps and charts, it's the best sum-up I've seen yet about where TxDOT thinks the rail would run and why. And it even mentions Southwest Airlines, which, as many Friends of Unfair Park pointed out earlier this week, has long opposed high-speed rail.

Although not mentioned in the TxDOT research project, even with over 100 flights daily, air travel between Dallas and Houston has experienced a decline in passengers of over 36% since 1990, according to a published report by the Dallas Morning News on January 9, 2011. The major contributing reasons for this decline were heightened security at the airports, rising cost in airfares, and a change in marketing geared toward an emphasis on longer flights, which may make core express service more appealing. Southwest Airlines, once an opponent of a HSR project, has seen a decline in annual passengers between Dallas Love Field and Houston Hobby Airport from 1.5M passengers in 1990 to 1.0M in 2009.
But, says the sender of this doc, the most intriguing revelations made in the doc are the figures found on Page 24: the potential cost of the project (around $4 billion for close to 250 miles of track) and the time it's guesstimated it would take to travel from Dallas to Houston (between 190 and 200 minutes). Says the man who dispatched the doc: "This is 15 million dollars that will be absolutely wasted." Read the whole thing after the jump.

TXDOT Overview of HSR

----
 
#20 ·
The Triangle is an auto-centric region desperate for some real transit solutions. This is a summary from The Raleigh Connoisseur of the plan that was presented at last night's Raleigh City Council meeting.

The draft Wake County Transit Plan takes a two-pronged approach to meeting increasing transit needs as the county continues to grow. Wake County’s population, set at about 901,000 in the 2010 U.S. Census, is projected to top 1 million by 2015 and 1.5 million by 2035. The transit plan’s two-pronged approach is:

A Core Transit Plan that would expand local and commuter bus service and build a rush-hour 37-mile commuter rail service from Garner to Durham. It would also provide amenities such as park-and-ride lots, sidewalks, signage and bus shelters, benches and other improvements; and,

An Enhanced Transit Plan that would build light-rail service from Downtown Cary through Downtown Raleigh, up to Millbrook Road in north Raleigh. The route would cover 13.9 miles.

Wake County’s share of the of the five-year bus services improvements in the plan would be $138.3 million of the total $344 million needed for both capital and operating costs. The remaining funds would come from state and federal funds. The commuter rail service would cost $650 million, with Wake County’s share at $330 million and Durham County’s at $320 million. The commuter rail system is projected to begin operations in 2019 or 2020.
Wake-Durham Commuter Rail:


Raleigh-Cary Light Rail:


The Wake County Government website has all the details. This would be more encouraging if the leadership in the Triangle was a bit more proactive.
 
#21 ·
The streetcar in Atlanta is being roundly panned by many critics, and I'll admit the particular corridor seems soft. I'm hopefuly for it's success, but not prepared to wager on that.

We do need more such options within burgeoning cities, though, as people tend to react much more favorably to smaller, fixed routed. The free shuttle buses running their loops around Chattanooga, for example, don't get near the same fear and hesitation that a traditional passenger bus, so hopefully this type of transit service will get more folks moving in Atlanta.

As for the larger HSR effort, I think there simply needs to be steady investment in the simple straightening and double tracking of the existing network. Right now it takes an overnight run to get from Atlanta to DC, no shorter than driving. A lot of that is the myriad of turns and bends that prohibit even slightly higher speeds, scattered throughout the route. Currently there are no plans for "smoothing the lines," just maintaining the norm, and that's foolish. Little investments here and there can eventually add up to 10 minutes shaved here, 15 minutes there. Eventually we can be at higher speeds that reduce the trip by hours.

There also needs to be a greater push for coordination (competition) with air travel. We'll always need air service but it's become too costly to run shorter flights, which is exactly where rail can be most effective. If we can get one of NC or FL to show ANY improvements in passenger service, I've little doubt that will start the dominoes for GA and the rest of the southeast:

- Upgrade the access and service between Raleigh and DC, then the rest of NC will be even more vested.
- Get anything going from Orlando to Miami
- With bookeneds in place GA and Atlanta will press even harder to get on board, rather than be bypassed. Plus it would alleviate the growing demand for a 2nd, national-level airport.
 
#22 ·
- Get anything going from Orlando to Miami
Not gonna happen until our current governor is out of office. He is vehemently against any transit plans other than roads. He even appoints anti-transit politicians to transit boards. Best case scenario 3 more years...worst case another term. Worst. Governor. Ever.

Steve
 
#25 ·
Good for them. I'm surprised many people still push back so aggressively against rail, when traditionally fixed-route transit fairs well and ultimately yields the land use adaptations desired to make urban densities much, much more affordable and efficient. Here in GA we're hoping VA and NC realize these benefits soon enough that we can begin to seriously think about linking the east coast together.

Way to go, Hampton Roads!
 
#27 ·
NC wouldn't be much of a problem, would it?

CLT - Greensboro/Winston-Salem - Raleigh/Durham, The I85 Corridor, wouldn't be so anti rail, would it? I believe even our Republican leaders generally like Rail. I may be wrong.

I thought it was Georgia & Florida who was against Rail.
 
#28 ·
From in between it's always seemed like Fla and NC are routinely in a tug-of-war among the supporters and detractors, both featuring times of bold plans and some progress as well as times of major supression. (Can't imagine what it would be like today if the FOX had taken off!) GA, meanwhile, has never gotten farther than a cursory plan for possible commuter routes and destinations, without even funding formalizations studies for more than two routes. And none of that has been addressing the idea of increasing the speeds for interstate travel. Alas.
 
#29 ·
I know that Birmingham has begun its study for a HRS corridor to Atlanta.
I think the study began about a year and a half ago. A Birmingham/Nashville/Atlanta triangle (or perhaps chattanooga instead) would be a great boon to the Southeast. Also an edge over the rest of the country.

Atlanta's progress with the high-speed rail is because the CNU chapter in Atlanta (and Ellen Dunham-Jones in particular) has a lot of strength there. I was in Atlanta in March and was really impressed with the good design of all the recent/current construction. Very "new urbanist" and stuck to good principles.
HRS will only be a boost to the groundwork there.
 
#30 ·
Atlanta also has strong representation on the federal level. In contrast, Nashville's has had notoriously horrible representation in Congress. Our current Congressman Jim Cooper is often derided as just someone who takes up space in Congress, and that comment came from a close friend of mine who is a Democrat representative from Virginia.
 
#31 ·
Ah, that's a good point. Good federal representation is important for grants and all kinds of infrastructure projects in general.
I hope you aren't confusing CNU with congress in general (I'm not sure if you are, just saying). The Congress for the New Urbanism is just a nonprofit organization. It's very large and has a lot of influence, though. Some members in the Atlanta chapter are very influential in the org and the chapter has a lot of influence in the city.
The CNU is a group of professionals in architecture/urban planning/urban design/real estate that push for better urban design in our cities. They support things like mass transit, mixed use development, walkable neighborhoods, fighting urban sprawl and stuff like that in general. I'm a member (though I'm a college student, not a professional in the field) and I just support their views/stances on urban issues. I'd recommend checking it out and learning about new urbanism to prettymuch any American or Canadian SSC user.
 
#32 ·
Not directly HSR related, but...

Regrettably the transportation sales tax referendum currently on the summer ballots in Georgia is muddying the waters with regards to public perceptions of transit and rail. Included on the list of projects are several rail initiatives in metro Atlanta, including some first forays into the henceforth exclusionary suburbs. If everything passes there's real hope that downtown Atlanta finally sees the infamous gulch converted into a multi-modal hub, the long-proposed "grand central station" for the city.

Alas, the zealots from all sides have come out and buried any thoughtful discussion of the measure. For some the idea of any new tax is a no go (Tea Party), for others it's far too transit heavy (suburban officials), and for others it's not doing enough for transit (Sierra Club)! Basically everyone has called imperfect and therefore publicly voicing opposition, never mind that there is no plausible Plan B at this time. (For ther record I can go either way provided the public is relatively unanimous in their decision and lives with the consequences. Worst outcome is a 51-49 measure that features continuous bickering and half-a**** implementation because of it.)

Anyway, if it does succeed GDOT and Amtrack have pledged to work more aggressively towards improving rail service to/from Atlanta. This would include better long-term appraoches to improving the capacity and allowable speeds on passenger tracks. Here in northeast Ga their eyeing areas for track straightening, and the hope is in my lifetime we'll see improved regular service to Birmingham, Macon, Savannah, Greenville and Charlotte.

Lot will depend, however, on what happens this summer.
 
#34 ·
They'd best be quick; That same corridor is also being touted for a rails-to-trails project! That's the problem for Columbus, as they're not along one of the primary routes being considered between Atlanta and the top slate of destinations. If Ontgomery had more pull, maybe.

The best chance they might have would be if Griffin becomes the pass-through on the way from Atlanta to Macon, and they could spur off to Columbus from there as well. But that particular Atlanta-to-Macon route has a big sweeping bend around Barnesville that slows the run down, so GDOT may opt for the line on the other side of 75 instead.

Frankly, I wish we'd stop paying for all these studies and simply use the money to go ahead and upgrade track.
 
#35 ·
Frankly, I wish we'd stop paying for all these studies and simply use the money to go ahead and upgrade track.
Haha, you said it. HRS studies and then the grant applications take years, though, and then you have to deal with all the political opposition. I think the opposition will quiet substantially as every line gets finished and they see how awesome it is. It gets you places faster than cars! And you can do whatever you want on your trip, you're not the one driving! It seems like everything's connecting to Atlanta but I think Birmingham has an opportunity I be fairly central itself here, too. We could connect to Atlanta, Memphis, Chattanooga and the Gulf directly.

Btw, what places along the Gulf have launched HRS studies? I would drool over a trans-gulf coast rail line from Houston to Tampa Bay. In Obama's original HRS plan, there was going to be a connection to Mobile which would have been great for Baldwin county.
 
#37 ·
Study finds high-speed trains across South would work

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/morning_call/2012/06/study-finds-high-speed-trains-across.html

A study prepared for Georgia transportation officials concludes that high-speed passenger trains connecting Atlanta with Birmingham, Jacksonville, Fla., and Louisville, Ky., would be economically feasible.
According to the Associated Press, consultant HNTB presented the study's findings to Georgia's State Transportation Board on Wednesday.
The study identified possible train stations in Griffin, Macon, Savannah and Brunswick on the route from Atlanta to Jacksonville, with a potential station in Anniston on the route from Atlanta to Birmingham.
Btw, Birmingham has just cooperated with Montgomery and Mobile to launch a study about connecting the three cities with new passenger rail.
I really wish Huntsville would get in on this because it's a pretty important location. Still, I'm glad to see some good progress being made overall. Huntsville is probably too sprawled right now to make a train line feasible anyway. They've had a lot of "new urbanist" kind of developments going up ther recently, though, so I think that they'll be building rail within the next 5 years.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Miami's Metrorail extension to the Airport opens 7/28/2012

The Orange Line will run between Dadeland South Metrorail Station and the new MIA Metrorail Station.
The Green Line will comprise the existing Metrorail line from Palmetto to Dadeland South Stations.
You’ll be able to transfer free between the Orange and Green lines at any station serving both lines as long as you remain within the Metrorail paid area.
To get to the new MIA Metrorail Station from north of Earlington Heights Station, board a southbound Green Line train, exit the train at Earlington Heights and board a northbound Orange Line train to the new MIA Metrorail Station.
At the new MIA Metrorail Station, follow the signs to the MIA Mover to ride directly to the airport terminal in less than five minutes.
Metrorail service will double in frequency between Dadeland South and Earlington Heights Stations (the stations that will serve both the Orange and Green lines).
Metrorail fares and hours will remain the same: $2 per trip and 5 a.m. to midnight, seven days a week.
Link: http://www.miamidade.gov/transit/miami-international-airport-station.asp

This is the first of the three Rail options to open at the $2 Billion dollar Intermodal station with construction underway for new stations to house AMTRAK & the Tri-Rail commuter rail system which serves the tri county area. Estimated completion date is 2014.



pics of the new Airport station :



 
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