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Baltimore/Washington Transit General Discussion

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Baltimore/Washington Transit News & Proposals



MARC Train Number 70 by Arvin Jay, on Flickr


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The proposal for a much expanded and combined MARC/VRE system


The Baltimore subway/light rail plan


The plan for the DC metrorail


btw, I thought the silver line was supposed to follow the blue and orange lines from West Falls Church to Stadium/Armory instead of take it's own path through the center of the city
 
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#2 ·
That's the first time I've seen that proposal for the expanded commuter rail. I know there are plans in the works for a line linking Union Station with St. Mary's County. O'Malley promised it during his campaign, but so far nothing has some to fruition. The right of way already exists, so it shouldn't be to hard to get it going.

The long-term MARC plans also include running the Camden Line under Howard Street and up to a new Charles Village station. That would be cool, but not sure where it would go.

Speaking of MARC expansion: MTA growth plan stalls

Also, how come so many DC metro maps have that grey box that connects roughly Silver Spring, Columbia Heights, Eisenhower Ave., and East Falls Church? What's the point of it?
 
#5 ·
Possible light rail extension to York

As someone who long ago learned to love the idea of light-rail service that would connect York County to Baltimore and Harrisburg -- then add Gettysburg, Lancaster, Hanover, the West Shore area and perhaps even Washington, D.C., for a perfect scenario -- I'm tickled to death that people seem to be taking it seriously.
A meeting held Monday in downtown York, attended by a half-dozen people, including two York City Council members, posed the question: Is it possible to bring light-rail train service back to York?

Not a novel idea: There was a time, after all, when York countians moved from one end of the county to the other either by light-rail train or trolley service. I have faint memories, in fact, of making the trip from York City -- my parents lived there at the time -- to Glen Rock and back on weekends to visit my paternal grandparents. And we did it by passenger train.

It was a terrific experience. And it must have been very useful for families throughout York County who didn't own a car -- my parents -- or didn't choose to drive. Or maybe they just enjoyed traveling by train.

Well, there is talk again about light rail here in York County.

Of course, right away there were comments about the economic-development aspects of light-rail service through York. York City Council member Joe Musso made the point that a light-rail line connecting York with Baltimore and Harrisburg would bring people into York City in droves. While here, of course, they'd

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spend all of their money.
More leaving than coming: Not to cast too big a shadow over that possibility, but I doubt that's going to happen in a big way. Certainly there will be people from Harrisburg and Baltimore who will come to York to shop, visit friends or whatever. I suspect, however, that it's more likely that York will be a pass-through for people going from Harrisburg to Baltimore and back or vice versa.

Sure, York countians will use the light-rail service as transportation to Baltimore or Harrisburg for business purposes, jobs or recreation. But a lot more Yorkers will be going to Baltimore or Harrisburg than people from Baltimore and Harrisburg will be coming to York.

Not to worry too much, though, because this is not a project that's going to happen anytime soon. It'd be great if trains were running in two or three years, but that's not likely. In fact, I'll be lucky to live long enough -- and I hope to live to a ripe old age -- to see it come to fruition.

But it's an idea with merit because mass transit is going to become more and more important to society as years go by. There's a limit, after all, to the number of fossil fuel-guzzling cars we can put on York County highways -- now, and 30 years from now.

There are plenty of obstacles to light-rail use in York County, of course -- land acquisition, funding, community support and coordinating the various transit authorities in two states, a half-dozen communities and dozens of related agencies, just for a start.

But like anything else, it can be done if we want it badly enough. There must be a sense of urgency about this project to get it moving forward -- something unrelenting like we've had with the baseball stadium project in York City, for example.

Can there possibly be anyone who seriously believes a light-rail system isn't more important to the future of York County than an independent-league baseball stadium?

It's laughable to even suggest such a possibility in a county that has grown 25 percent since 1990. You can build only so many roads, expand so many highways to accommodate traffic in and through York County.

An alternative transit system, such as light-rail, seems an intelligent partial solution to that problem.

If only we care enough to make it happen.



It sounds like it's probably not going to happen, but maybe the commuter rail project will end up going through eventually
 
#7 ·
At one time it did. The now defunct Washington, Baltimore & Annapolis RR (WB&A) connected the three cities. I have a book on this. These were interurban cars (commuter trolley cars), riding on tracks that ran between the downtowns of each city, then over a right-of-way in between in route to the other. The B & W Parkway was one of the former rights-of-way (ROW) between Balt. and DC. The ROW between Annapolis and Balt., I believe, is the present light rail portion. The only thing missing a bridge over the South River that was washed away in the 40s or 50s. Aparently, after that service was discontinued. I would have linked to experience this. Maybe we have a poster old enough to remember it. The photos are amazining. We can certainly use this today, what the future could be lies in the past.
 
#18 ·
here's another map of the commuter rail proposal i found that looks about the same except it has a line between baltimore and frederick.

sorry the station names are so small
Very interesting. I found the full size version here:
http://bp1.blogger.com/_IleclKMZ1Mg/SAa7WFIp1GI/AAAAAAAAAss/Y3VRos96_jY/s1600-h/RegRail.JPG

Along with an insane Metro expansion map:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_IleclKMZ1Mg/SCmivIgRUDI/AAAAAAAAAvM/QRmseWE-XyI/s1600-h/ExportTest1.png

Taken from the following blog:
http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/
 
#22 ·
Sorry for the delay in replying. I've only just been approved for membership.

I'm the guy who made the Track Twenty-Nine maps. Some of you had questions about them. Because only the images were linked to, you missed the text that described them. There are also other elements to the plan; Metro/LRT and now Streetcar. Others are in the works as we speak.

For more information, please visit:
http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/search/label/Transportation Futures

Regional Rail: http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/2008/04/regional-rail-redux.html
Metro/LRT: http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/2008/05/making-your-mind-up.html
Streetcar: http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/2008/08/revised-streetcar-map.html

I'd love to hear what you think.

--Matt'
tracktwentynine.blogspot.com
 
#25 ·
It won't be a short trip, but four hours might be a stretch. The current trip from Hunt Valley to BWI takes about an hour and 15 minutes. That stretch is significantly longer than the portion that would be tacked on to connect Columbia to the BWI Business District, which would also presumably be on a dedicated ROW the entire trip. My guess is Hunt Valley to Columbia would be an hour and 45 minute light rail right.
 
#29 ·
From baltimoreinnerspace.com

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Charles Street Trolley Extension


A STREETCAR NAMED ASPIRE
For the proposed Charles Street Trolley line to truly fit into its own distinct place in the region's transit system, it should be extended eastward along 33rd Street to Baltimore City College, then northward on Loch Raven Boulevard to Northwood Shopping Center near Morgan State University.

This would be a modest expansion to a modest project, but it would increase its scope dramatically, and transform the trolley from being a community-based initiative to one with truly regional significance. It would elevate the trolley into a vehicle for the transformation of the transit system and its aspiration for excellence.

Operationally, it would simply allow the current #3 bus line, which also serves Northwood Shopping Center along Loch Raven Boulevard, to make a much quicker trip to Downtown, allowing it to bypass the more urban Charles Village corridor and let the trolley serve that area instead.

Such a trolley line would serve an expanded "Uptown" corridor that would include not only Charles Village, but Waverly and the Memorial Stadium area, as well as Northwood and Morgan State University. Trolleys are much more suited to serve this type of medium and high density multi-use urban corridor. This would allow the #3 bus line, and also the major #8 bus line on Greenmount and the more meandering #36 bus line, to focus on what they can do better - linking more suburban areas to downtown, while also serving as feeders to the trolley line.

A daunting problem of the current Charles Street trolley proposal is that it provides redundant service to the MTA bus lines that are already in the corridor. This redundancy would no doubt be exacerbated if the trolley line were run by a separate independent entity and not the MTA. Would the MTA work closely with the Charles Street Development Corporation and its trolley offspring to ensure that all transit modes function in concert as a cohesive system? There's not much chance of that happening, since the MTA hasn't even had a proactive role in the streetcar planning, much less in its implementation. They have virtually no stake in the trolley's success. They also have enough trouble running their own shop, much less trying to ensure the success of another independent operator.

The scope of the Charles Street Trolley project needs to be expanded so it is just big enough to make a big impact, and to demand that the MTA adopt it and work to make it work.

EXPANDING THE TROLLEY INTO THE 33RD STREET- NORTHWOOD CORRIDOR

Turning the trolley line eastward onto 33rd Street from the Charles/St. Paul Corridor at Hopkins University is a very natural thing to do, both physically and operationally. Physically, 33rd Street has a very wide median framed by trees that could form an organic canopy for the streetcars to travel under. Operationally, 33rd Street is already a major link for the high-volume #3 bus line between the northeast Loch Raven corridor and the north central Charles/St. Paul Corridor.



The tree canopy of the 33rd Street median would be an ideal place for the Charles Street Trolley line in the Waverly Business District looking west toward Greenmount Avenue.

It seems rather odd, however, for the #3 bus line to make this diversionary shift from one corridor to another on its way downtown. The fact that this shift adds many riders to the #3 line is a strong suggestion that this route would be more appropriate for a streetcar line, which is a transit mode specifically tailored to the needs of a multi-use urban environment, than for the #3 bus line which could then focus on the traditional suburb to downtown radial function. This would be accomplished by running the #3 bus line all the way down Loch Raven instead of making the detour to Charles Village, as would some major improvements to expedite traffic in this area (see blog article on the Jones Falls/Belvidere connection). The #3 line could also then be converted into an express-style "QuickBus" like the recently instituted #40 east-west line.

The Northwood Shopping Center on Loch Raven Boulevard would be a perfect location for a transit terminal to connect the end of the trolley line to the #3 bus line. Located at the southern end of Morgan State University, this shopping center could be re-fashioned into a "college-town" commercial district in the same way as is being done in the district at Johns Hopkins University (also along the trolley line) in a very vibrant and successful way.



Northwood Shopping Center looking toward the big empty former Hecht Company department store, with Morgan State University dorms hovering overhead in the background. This parking lot could be made into a campus main street business district at the end of the streetcar line.

The Northwood Shopping Center has suffered from the same kind of obsolescence as many other old suburban style retail centers. But the surrounding neighborhood is extremely solid, so a redesign that integrates the retail into both the community and the campus could create a sense of ownership and identity among residents and students, instead of allowing the shopping center to be an isolated island of blight and abandonment.

From this point, the trolley line would proceed southward on Loch Raven Boulevard and The Alameda to 33rd Street. All three of these streets have wide attractive medians that are tailor-made for streetcar lines. One of the great things about streetcar tracks is that grass can still grow between the rails, and trees can readily hover over the top to blend into the sylvan setting. This portion of the Northwood and Lakeside neighborhoods could become Baltimore's version of Cleveland's Shaker Heights, conjuring up a lifestyle of gracious trolleys traversing amid gracious mid-century homes.


Loch Raven Boulevard just south of Northwood Shopping Center could become Baltimore's Shaker Heights.
 
#34 ·
I hope the downtown circulators are a success because, well, they're free and it'll be a good thing to get more people on transit. I hope the ultimate goal, however, is to use the circulator routes to build ridership for an ultimate conversion to streetcar lines.

When I was in Baltimore, I attended a few of the trolley meetings. Things seemed to be moving full steam ahead, but I haven't heard anything since sometime in mid-June. That's not to say that it isn't moving along, but if they still plan to break ground in 2009, as was the plan, I would think that they would be making a little more noise.

DC is moving right along with their streetcar projects. Hopefully, that will spark some interest in Baltimore.
 
#33 ·
While at ArtScape I signed up for updates on the Red Line. Will post them here.
----------------
Dear Friend:
Please join Mayor Sheila Dixon, Maryland Transportation Secretary John D. Porcari, and
MTA Administrator Paul J. Wiedefeld for this significant ceremonial event. Everyone is asked to wear something red!

Sincerely,
Danyell Diggs
Red Line Coordinator
410-396-6856

Signing Ceremony to Endorse the
Red Line Community Compact

West Baltimore

Friday, September 12, 2008
Waterfront Promenade (Fells Point)
S. Broadway @ Thames Street
2:30 p.m.


RAIN LOCATION: Living Classrooms Foundation 1417 Thames Street

Visit us at www.gobaltimoreredline.com.

----------------
 
#36 ·
Here's a map showing the percentage of people riding public transit and the percent of people riding public transit


DC is about split even between transit and driving, and is second two new york.
Baltimore is higher in transit than I thought it would be. it's higher than a lot of cities but still has a lot more driving alone than taking transit. I wonder how much of that ridership is on MARC,Light Rail, and Metro and how much of it is on the buses.
 
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