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#2721 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SADC/Cape Town
Posts: 277
Likes (Received): 8
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Damn this thing is expensive, this now over and above the income it generates. It would never have been profitable, but a loss of nearly a billion per year?
About 12 million Gauteng residents are paying more than R70-million a month to keep the Gautrain on its tracks. The province's treasury now looks set to give the transport department an additional R1.2-billion cash injection to enable it to support its agencies until the end of March. The department will, from this amount, allocate R861-million to the Gautrain in what is called a "patronage fee". On Tuesday next week, finance MEC Mandla Nkomfe is expected to announce this and other cash injections for other departments when he tables the provincial budget. The multimillion-rand allocation comes after Nkomfe first tabled a draft report on the Provincial Adjustment Appropriation Bill, enabling the provincial treasury to take money from the province's revenue account and streamline it to departmental expenditure budgets to address shortfalls. Last year, Neil Campbell, the DA's provincial spokesman on transport, called for the Gautrain contract to be made public, adding that reports hinted at the time that taxpayers would pay R700-million a year to subsidise its operational costs. Yesterday, John Mashele, Gauteng treasury's deputy director-general for sustainable resource management, denied the R861-million was a subsidy. "Gautrain's allocation was reduced when Gauteng treasury tabled the main budget [last year]. This was because discussions on some aspects of their spending plans had not been finalised. This necessitated treasury to allocate what was reduced through the adjustment process," he said. Mashele said when the R27-billion Gautrain project was signed off by the Cabinet in 2006, a patronage fee to assist in covering "operating, maintenance and the private sector portion of the capital costs" was part of the deal. The Gautrain, which started operating in June 2010, was billed as one of the most reliable modes of public transport in Gauteng. Despite this, questions were asked on whether the train would meet its target of 100000 passenger trips a day. Gautrain spokesman Barbara Jensen said on average the train recorded between 45000 and 47000 passenger trips every weekday, and a further 18000 to 20000 passenger trips on its buses. "The system is in very early stages of operation and is in what is known as the 'ramp-up' period. "It's simply too early to give any accurate estimates of ridership or the patronage guarantee." Jensen said the Gautrain Management Company, under the leadership of CEO Jack van der Merwe, was presently "exploring options" of expanding the project by adding stations at Samrand in Midrand and Modderfontein, east of Johannesburg. http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/...-gautrain-bill |
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#2722 |
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Bloody Agent
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cape Town, Johannesburg
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 8
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Interesting discussion. Once again the DA nails it IMO, tough to argue against Ollis's points
Last edited by Inertia; April 8th, 2013 at 09:25 PM. |
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#2723 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 229
Likes (Received): 1
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I still don't get why the patronage guarantee is structured to directly subsidise the operator rather than the commuter. Surely making ticket prices cheaper (i.e. putting at least a portion of the R900m into subsidising ticket costs) may push rider-ship up to sustainable level? Has anybody actually done a price elasticity study?
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#2724 | ||
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Bloody Agent
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cape Town, Johannesburg
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 8
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Quote:
Once the novelty of travelling to JHB <> PTA and the Airport runs out, I must admit I find the Gautrain to be pretty inflexible. The fact that it is such an isolated operation with absolutely no official connectivity with other transport operations is an absolute disgrace. The transport department in Gauteng is so clueless it's scary. The infrastructure is sitting there, has been sitting there for years but there is such little knowledge/capacity/understanding/motivation to link it all together that they all operate as independent entities. It blows my mind that Rea Vaya hasn't been officially integrated, with combined ticketing.
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Jo'burg a world class african city Sandton feel the energy SOUTH AFRICA
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#2725 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 3,687
Likes (Received): 259
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Gautrain 2012 ridership up 60%, placing ‘severe strain’ on capacity ![]() By: Irma Venter 9th April 2013 Quote:
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"Let the African think, and think, and think." Dr. Kwame Nkrumah
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#2726 | |
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More development
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Durban, Singapore
Posts: 16,797
Likes (Received): 19
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Quote:
Agree, is there no form of integration of systems planned? Metrorail/Rea Vaya/Gautrain should all link seemlessly. Heck the taxis should be linked in too. Other cities are doing that, so surely it is planned for the near future
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Improving in stature day by day |
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#2727 | |
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Bloody Agent
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cape Town, Johannesburg
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 8
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Quote:
I don't blame Bombela as they actually run the Gautrain system fantastically in the constraints of their contracts. It is, no shit, the Gauteng and national government who have completely fucked up everything the Gautrain could have been up till now Last edited by Inertia; April 10th, 2013 at 04:55 PM. |
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#2728 |
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More development
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Durban, Singapore
Posts: 16,797
Likes (Received): 19
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I would include the city council too. They should have an integrated transport plan
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Improving in stature day by day |
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#2729 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SADC/Cape Town
Posts: 277
Likes (Received): 8
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So here's a question: Ridership jumped 60%, with the system capacity now under severe strain. Yet, they are nowhere near break-even point? How on earth did they predict they would turn profitable if they can't even handle the passengers required for breaking even?
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#2730 |
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ZoalBucket
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sandton
Posts: 525
Likes (Received): 42
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I think the system in its current format cant really handle ridership.
Gautrain is ultimately designed for an increase in the number on carriages per train as well as an increase in the frequency that the trains are running. That should help put an ease on the system With these changes the system should be able to handle the increased ridership |
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#2731 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SADC/Cape Town
Posts: 277
Likes (Received): 8
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True, do we know the upward limit of the interval they can manage? If i remember correctly they where going to try and reduce it to 9 minutes by 2018? Even that would only increase capacity by max 33%
So can we then assume the constraint is the 24 train sets they have? For them to up capacity, they need more trains. As far as I know, there has been no mention of them trying to get more from Bombardier? The lead time on that would probably be years, by which time tolls would be in, and the system (as well as their profits) would be severely hampered by lack of capacity. |
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#2732 |
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Bloody Agent
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cape Town, Johannesburg
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 8
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The capacity constraints seem like a huge oversight from their side. The expected break-even ridership was to be over 100 000 passenger trips a day. This is defined as actual one way passenger trips. So a person travelling to Midrand from PTA is one trip. One of the reasons Gautrain says that their riderships are so much lower is due to the fact that these projections included an extra station on the line (Zonkisizwe development) which has never happened.
I don't see how this could possibly increase ridership to over 100 000 a day, as currently the average ridership per station is roughly 4800 trips per station per day. So adding an extra station should increase ridership by +- this amount. Which gets us to 52 800, maybe even 60 000 if we are being optimistic. While this is not a cause for concern in itself, as annual growth could eventually push this to over 100 000, what really worries me is that the system is reaching, or has already reached its current capacity at 48 000 passengers a day. Train frequency cannot be increased much more than 10 minutes without the whole signalling system being replaced, a major job. Also they currently run 8 car train sets in very busy times, and as far as I'm aware stations are long enough to handle 10 car trains, not sure if it's more. So basically there's no quick fix in sight, and Gautrain haven't reached half their projected daily ridership. It's clear that the projections were based on ridership being much more evenly spread during the day, but it is very surprising that peak hours were so drastically under estimated. This is going to be a big problem and I really don't know what short term solutions are available to Bombela and the government |
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#2733 | |
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ZoalBucket
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sandton
Posts: 525
Likes (Received): 42
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Quote:
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#2734 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kouga
Posts: 1,746
Likes (Received): 0
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It's called tax-payers' money.
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Between now and 2050, the United Nations forecasts that there will be nearly 150 million refugees caused by the effects of global warming. Johannesburg - An African Class World City! |
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#2735 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SADC/Cape Town
Posts: 277
Likes (Received): 8
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a confirmation of above mentioned concerns:
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ession-company Note specifically: Quote:
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#2736 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 2
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The last option will be to take out seats in order to increase capacity. Most metros run that way anyway.
On some European systems they run trains every 90 seconds in peak. With single track that is not an option. As they say: do it right first time. |
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#2737 |
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ZoalBucket
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sandton
Posts: 525
Likes (Received): 42
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All I'm reading is that the people responsible for the construction and operation of the Gautrain made some serious mistakes regarding its implementation and the future feasibility of the whole thing. Some serious oversights in my opinion.
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#2739 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 2
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To get tax payers to work and keep the economy running should make money sense to any government even if the actual means of getting said tax payers to work is run at a loss!
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#2740 |
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BITTER HEART NEVER REST
Join Date: May 2004
Location: JOHANNESBURG
Posts: 11,382
Likes (Received): 8
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Guys, there's a development of the new Food Court at Park Station's Gautrain side. I tried to google for the info but can't find anything.
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