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Old May 25th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #61
Hia-leah JDM
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Originally Posted by dmoor82 View Post
I know,cuz Tallahasee is such a huge media market!!!The OKC media market is 45th nationally,and would be middle of The pack in The SEC!Take The Two Texass schools,Please!I just hope The Big 10 doesnt pick up Nebraska!That would be two Rivals Ou loses!
FSU students and alumni aren't just confined to the city of Tallahassee! FSU alumni are statewide - in Miami, Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, and everyother city in between, a HUGE chunk of college grads come from either FSU or UF. That's why you need to take into account the entire state with these state schools.In Miami loyalty to UM is has more to do with locals becoming fans of the hometown school.
FSU, UF and UM all have huge fans bases across Florida - in every region of the state, these three football programs have students, alumni, and fans cheering them on. Having the three schools is a no brainer.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #62
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In the words of Lee Corso "Not so fast my friends". The ACC is in the process of negotiating a $ 1.86 billion deal for 12 years with ESPN. Comes to around $155 million per year and $13 million per team. Still short of the SEC considering the SEC contract has CBS + ESPN which equates to $17 million per year. But, the SEC finalized their deal prior to the wallstreet meltdown and housing crash in fall of 2008. But significantly more that experts had predicted. Apparently, ESPN got into a bidding war with FOX sports.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...lion-deal.html

Also, ACC commish Swofford solidified the shorter contract versus the SEC 15 years to be first to the table with negotiations in 12 years.

If this deal does get done, this will make it tough for any current affiliated ACC school to part ways with the conference. Not to say that they want, but the incentive to join what is perceived as a less than stellar academically-based SEC will have diminished considering the money on the table. Maybe FSU or Clemson...but why, they have a better chance of winning in the ACC title in football.

Clarification: Virginia isn't going anywhere without VA Tech and vice versa in my opininon, and VA ain't leaving the ACC for the SEC....maybe the Big Ten. No North Carolina-based ACC school is going anywhere (that's insanity!) Even if FSU and Clemson leave, I'm OK with that - replace with Syracuse (Lacrosse, basketball, sometimes football), UConn (football on the rise, basketball), Pitt, WVA or Louisville. Either way, the ACC is ok....doesn't look good for the Big East.

I think the Big Ten really wants MD for the DC market but I think the stay in the ACC due primarily to basketball, lacrosse and soccer.

Expanding in the SEC footprint for football would be shortsighted for the SEC. They need to up the ante in basketball.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #63
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FSU students and alumni aren't just confined to the city of Tallahassee!
Hahaha. I didn't see where he wrote that. Yeah, that's like saying the Stillwater media market is OSU. Never mind the land of Tulsa. Or that the Tuscaloosa market is Bama, nevermind Birmingham.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 08:16 PM   #64
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Hahaha. I didn't see where he wrote that. Yeah, that's like saying the Stillwater media market is OSU. Never mind the land of Tulsa. Or that the Tuscaloosa market is Bama, nevermind Birmingham.
Ummm yeah, I wrote that post in Defense of all of these people saying The Ou media market was small,The OKC market is 45th in The nation,but The Ou fanbase reaches Statewide and even has a strong foothold in Dallas!
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Old May 26th, 2010, 02:38 AM   #65
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In the words of Lee Corso "Not so fast my friends". The ACC is in the process of negotiating a $ 1.86 billion deal for 12 years with ESPN. Comes to around $155 million per year and $13 million per team. Still short of the SEC considering the SEC contract has CBS + ESPN which equates to $17 million per year. But, the SEC finalized their deal prior to the wallstreet meltdown and housing crash in fall of 2008. But significantly more that experts had predicted. Apparently, ESPN got into a bidding war with FOX sports.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...lion-deal.html

Also, ACC commish Swofford solidified the shorter contract versus the SEC 15 years to be first to the table with negotiations in 12 years.

If this deal does get done, this will make it tough for any current affiliated ACC school to part ways with the conference. Not to say that they want, but the incentive to join what is perceived as a less than stellar academically-based SEC will have diminished considering the money on the table. Maybe FSU or Clemson...but why, they have a better chance of winning in the ACC title in football.

Clarification: Virginia isn't going anywhere without VA Tech and vice versa in my opininon, and VA ain't leaving the ACC for the SEC....maybe the Big Ten. No North Carolina-based ACC school is going anywhere (that's insanity!) Even if FSU and Clemson leave, I'm OK with that - replace with Syracuse (Lacrosse, basketball, sometimes football), UConn (football on the rise, basketball), Pitt, WVA or Louisville. Either way, the ACC is ok....doesn't look good for the Big East.

I think the Big Ten really wants MD for the DC market but I think the stay in the ACC due primarily to basketball, lacrosse and soccer.

Expanding in the SEC footprint for football would be shortsighted for the SEC. They need to up the ante in basketball.
But SEC football is the money maker, so expanding to attract those type of schools is the priority.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 04:27 AM   #66
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Virginia seemed to be just fine being in the ACC without VT all those years.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 04:54 AM   #67
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Virginia seemed to be just fine being in the ACC without VT all those years.
Considering the rivalry between the two, I really doubt a connectivity between ventures. Either would be fine if they left the ACC; like I said before, I think VT would do great in the SEC actually...they would be a pretty competitive force. The basketball program has been doing better and better as well, which should definitely continue.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 04:57 AM   #68
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My plan for restructuring major college football (and possibly athletics as a whole) would be to create 4 20-team superconferences, split into two divisions, with the divisional champions playing each other for the conference title and automatic BCS berth and the runners-up hosting one of the four at-large teams.

The conferences in question would be restructured as follows:

Southern Conference

Southwest Division
Arkansas
Louisiana State
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas A&M
Baylor/Texas Christian/Texas Tech (any two)

Southeast Division
Alabama
Auburn
Clemson
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Miami
South Carolina
Tennessee
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #69
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But SEC football is the money maker, so expanding to attract those type of schools is the priority.
It's really not about football, it's about gaining share in a new media market. SEC football ain't gonna be top dog year-end and year-out, things change all the time and college football is beginning to approach parity much the same as in college basketball. Given a playoff system, this would be much more evident versus the current process.

If the ACC get's the deal with ESPN, the chance of swaying a school from the conference is really slim. Actually, I think the ACC will be in the driver's seat somewhat and will probably keep their core and look to expand in the northeast market (Syracuse, UConn, etc) - that is, if the Big Ten grows beyond 12 teams.

In college football, if FSU, Clemson, Miami, etc. go undefeated in the ACC (or 1 loss with a strong record), they're probably playing for the National Championship game.

Especially, FSU, they already play Florida every year.

The majority of SEC football games don't warrant national attention and outside of the Southeast or SEC footprint, the rest of the US doesn't really care. Basically, joining the SEC and being relegated to a role of Kentucky, Miss St., Ole Miss, Arkansas, SC, etc. would be a mistake. Lately, the SEC has become a 3-headed monster - Bama, LSU and Fl.

At the end of the day it's about MONEY, if the ACC gets $155 million per year ($13 million per team) - ain't nobody going no where.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 11:56 PM   #70
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Virginia seemed to be just fine being in the ACC without VT all those years.
History Lesson - Virginia Tech has aggressively pursued admission to the ACC since the early 60's, rejected in 1977, etc (conference affiliation from the following link):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_Hokies

Excerpt:

Frank Moseley, Virginia Tech's director of athletics and football coach, believed that the new Southern Conference was a lower tier of competition and sought membership in the ACC, but was turned down. In 1965, Tech left the Southern Conference to become independent. In 1977, Virginia Tech once again sought admission to the ACC and was once again rejected.[4]


When the ACC wanted to expand from 9 to 12 teams in 2003, they sought Syracuse (New York market), Boston (Boston market) and Miami (Miami/South Florida market).

Well at that time, you needed 7 out of 9 votes for expansion from the 9 ACC schools for approval. North Carolina and Duke opposed expansion. So they need all the other Seven. The Virginia governor told the VA president "HELL-TO-THE-NO!" . If VA TECH isn't part of the deal Virginia votes NO and that means ONLY 6 of 9 which meant NO EXPANSION. So, out with Syracuse and in with Va Tech.

I'd venture to say most of the Va Tech Alumni live in NC, VA and DC area. Va Tech sought membership into ACC for 40 years. Pre-Mike Vick and Frank Beamer, there really isn't much to talk about.

So, the ties between VA and VA Tech are strong....basically if the ACC gets the deal worth $1.86 billion or $155 per year or $13 million per team. NO ONE IS LEAVING....just my humble opinion.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 03:45 AM   #71
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It's really not about football, it's about gaining share in a new media market.
That was the logic behind adding Boston College, except that the only people in Boston who have more than an occasional, fleeting interest in BC athletics are BC alumni.

Expanding to new markets is nice, but the programs in those markets may not necessarily command their markets' attention.

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If the ACC get's the deal with ESPN, the chance of swaying a school from the conference is really slim. Actually, I think the ACC will be in the driver's seat somewhat and will probably keep their core and look to expand in the northeast market (Syracuse, UConn, etc) - that is, if the Big Ten grows beyond 12 teams.
I dunno, I don't think Tagliabue's gonna allow another raid on the Big East without putting up a fight, or charging a hefty departure fee. The ACC might be willing to pay the asking price, though.

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In college football, if FSU, Clemson, Miami, etc. go undefeated in the ACC (or 1 loss with a strong record), they're probably playing for the National Championship game.
Perhaps.

The ACC hasn't put forth a bonafide title contender in quite some time, though. When an ACC champion finishes with one loss or fewer (it probably will happen), we'll see.

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The majority of SEC football games don't warrant national attention and outside of the Southeast or SEC footprint, the rest of the US doesn't really care. Basically, joining the SEC and being relegated to a role of Kentucky, Miss St., Ole Miss, Arkansas, SC, etc. would be a mistake.
They might not care so much about those four programs, in and of themselves (unless they're having a good year), but people definitely care about the Iron Bowl, Cocktail Party, Third Saturday in October, LSU - Arkansas, or most other matchups involving the "Big 6," and if Clemson - USC, UGA - GT, UF - FSU, etc., became conference games (and especially if Miami joins), people from outside of those respective regions will tune in.

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Lately, the SEC has become a 3-headed monster - Bama, LSU and Fl.
It really does seem that way (especially the last couple of years), because the other three traditional powers of the SEC (Tennessee, Auburn, Georgia) have hit a bit of a skid.

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At the end of the day it's about MONEY, if the ACC gets $155 million per year ($13 million per team) - ain't nobody going no where.
If that happens, maybe John Swofford won't feel so bad about paying off UConn's exit fee.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 05:10 AM   #72
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They might not care so much about those four programs, in and of themselves (unless they're having a good year), but people definitely care about the Iron Bowl, Cocktail Party, Third Saturday in October, LSU - Arkansas, or most other matchups involving the "Big 6," and if Clemson - USC, UGA - GT, UF - FSU, etc., became conference games (and especially if Miami joins), people from outside of those respective regions will tune in.

If that happens, maybe John Swofford won't feel so bad about paying off UConn's exit fee.
Iron Bowl?? Cocktail Party?? I am an avid football fan, but the vast majority of football fans (Pac-10, Big Ten, etc) aren't concerned with the SEC....there is the slight possibility they've heard mention but couldn't tell you much about the Iron Bowl or Cocktail Party. I was in the training business and traveled the US 2-3 weeks out of the month for 4 years.

Nothing like posting up at the bar on football saturday when traveling, but no one in NC, DC, TX, OK, AZ, CA, WA, OH, etc. is specifically tuned to an SEC game - of course if a huge alumni base is present in a city, they usually set up shop in a corner. Texas Longhorn alumni is equivalent to Pittsburgh Steeler fans - ABSOLUTELY everywhere...no doubt, in all my travels, the Longhorns are everywhere and have to be #1 in college football presence nationwide.

SEC football is good, but most people and fans are homers. LSU - Arkansas??? Come on... It's not on my radar! Maybe LSU - FL or LSU Alabama.

The SEC would be better off adding Lousville (Basketball) and WVA (basketball and football) if they want to keep a southern connection. I don't think any conference needs more than 12 teams unless they change the format which may very well happen.

Oh well, I hope the Big Ten comes to grips with their power strut and add either Missouri or Notre Dame (and be done with it). The Southwest Conference replaces Missouri with Houston or TCU. The Big Ten is enjoying this attention - given they haven't won in a National Championship in Basketball or Football in damn near a decade.

In the 70s, the games I could not wait to see each year were Nebraska/Oklahoma, Michigan/Ohio State and Notre Dame/USC. Much like Florida/Alabama today. Separating Nebraska and Oklahoma is un-American.

Oh well, the ball is in the Big Ten's court, maybe they won't fumble this one.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 08:47 AM   #73
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Durhamite, that's an interesting point you brought up. OU and Nebraska have a great history and what was once the premier rivalry of the 80s. But another great 80s rivalry was OU and Miami..two schools that met in several championship games. OU and Miami together in the SEC would be just as interesting as rekindling the OU/Nebraska rivalry, which is mostly dead now. I know that a lot of people who really enjoyed those games back when they had Game of the Century status want to keep OU and Nebraska together, but truthfully, the two schools have always been very different, culturally, athletically, demographically, academically, and so on. You can't build a conference around OU/Nebraska in the same way that you can build a conference around OU and Texas (which is basically what the Big 12 is).

Big 12 north--who cares? Big 12 south--the main 4 schools that represent everything you REALLY want in a conference (sans Tech and Baylor) can easily shift to the nearest most powerful conference.

Texas: Money
OU: Championships
OSU: Facilities
A&M: Tradition
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Old May 27th, 2010, 09:24 AM   #74
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Iron Bowl?? Cocktail Party?? I am an avid football fan, but the vast majority of football fans (Pac-10, Big Ten, etc) aren't concerned with the SEC....there is the slight possibility they've heard mention but couldn't tell you much about the Iron Bowl or Cocktail Party.
Iron Bowl = Alabama/Auburn
Florida/Georgia = World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party

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I was in the training business and traveled the US 2-3 weeks out of the month for 4 years.

Nothing like posting up at the bar on football saturday when traveling, but no one in NC, DC, TX, OK, AZ, CA, WA, OH, etc. is specifically tuned to an SEC game - of course if a huge alumni base is present in a city, they usually set up shop in a corner.
You could say the same thing about most programs of any conference except those doing well. Who wants to watch Washington State play Arizona or Purdue play Illinois?

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Texas Longhorn alumni is equivalent to Pittsburgh Steeler fans - ABSOLUTELY everywhere...no doubt, in all my travels, the Longhorns are everywhere and have to be #1 in college football presence nationwide.
There's very few programs that have that kind of pull, in any conference...Ohio State, Michigan, USC, UCLA, Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, maybe Penn State...I can't think of many.

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SEC football is good, but most people and fans are homers. LSU - Arkansas??? Come on... It's not on my radar! Maybe LSU - FL or LSU Alabama.
If the SEC game is the best game on (which it often is), people will watch.

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The SEC would be better off adding Lousville (Basketball) and WVA (basketball and football) if they want to keep a southern connection. I don't think any conference needs more than 12 teams unless they change the format which may very well happen.
Louisville has to prove that it's more than just a fart in the wind, from a football perspective. Their football stadium, even after expansion, would be the third-smallest in the SEC. If anything, Vandy and Kentucky oughtta join them in the Big East, along with Memphis.

WVU has a more extensive football history than UL, but are neither a good geographical fit for the SEC nor a good academic fit for the ACC or B10. They belong right where they are, as well.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #75
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Big 12 north--who cares? Big 12 south--the main 4 schools that represent everything you REALLY want in a conference (sans Tech and Baylor) can easily shift to the nearest most powerful conference.

Texas: Money
OU: Championships
OSU: Facilities
A&M: Tradition
Three of the four also have stadiums 80k or larger, and the other (oSu) more than makes up for it in quality.

I believe that the North schools (minus Colorado, who belong in the MWC, IMO) should join the five Big Ten schools west of Lake Michigan, while the Big Ten should replace them with Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and either Cincinnati or Rutgers.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #76
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Iron Bowl = Alabama/Auburn
Florida/Georgia = World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party

I know this, but the large majority of the US really doesn't care about these games...sort of like Duke/UNC in basketball, most people really don't care...just depends what else is on TV.

You could say the same thing about most programs of any conference except those doing well. Who wants to watch Washington State play Arizona or Purdue play Illinois?

My point exactly, other than FL, LSU and Bama - most CFB fans aren't extremely interested SEC games. The SEC probably does better than other conferences but not 5-10x better. Now that ESPN has a strong relationship with the SEC, this may change as the hype machine is in full motion.

There's very few programs that have that kind of pull, in any conference...Ohio State, Michigan, USC, UCLA, Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, maybe Penn State...I can't think of many.

Well...there ya go. Other strong ones are FSU, Tenn, Bama, OK.

If the SEC game is the best game on (which it often is), people will watch.

Only the SEC game of the week on CBS gets that much attention during competitive broadcast times. Who wants to watch Georgia/Arkansas if they are 4-3 and 5-2??? Other conferences have teams of equal accord and will watch those games in their territory.

For the most part, the SEC is not on TV outside of their footprint, unless it's the only game available via ESPN during the late evening or night slot. According to ESPN, those games broadcast by ESPN during those times get about the same rating as an ACC game.


Louisville has to prove that it's more than just a fart in the wind, from a football perspective. Their football stadium, even after expansion, would be the third-smallest in the SEC. If anything, Vandy and Kentucky oughtta join them in the Big East, along with Memphis.

The SEC doesn't need any additional football teams and needs a larger market presence to increase media share. To me, it's more interesting when the conference has balance. The bigger picture is much much larger than football.

WVU has a more extensive football history than UL, but are neither a good geographical fit for the SEC nor a good academic fit for the ACC or B10. They belong right where they are, as well.
Not good geographical fits?? Might want to break out the atlas!
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Old May 27th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #77
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OU and Nebraska together, but truthfully, the two schools have always been very different, culturally, athletically, demographically, academically, and so on.
That is the same reason on why OU and OSU should not be a part of the SEC. Very different culturally and demographically.


Most SEC fans feel Arkansas is more of a big 12 school than a SEC school. Their location is actually closer to 4 Big 12 schools than to the closest SEC school. Also, Arkansas is the only SEC school located west of the Mississippi River. I know people are saying the Big 12 will go after Arkansas but I doubt Arkansas will leave the SEC.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #78
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Spaz, if you're the SEC commish, I would tell you that you already have Arkansas. That opens the door for OU/OSU--might as well take them too, especially if you want to add championships and facilities.

Do Mizzou and Michigan have much in common? What about Nebraska and Northwestern?

It's not going to be possible to expand to a 16-team "super conference" of nothing but powerful schools by retaining homogeneity. The Big 12 is already kind of like that..how much do OU and Colorado have in common? CU had to go somewhere, and it's not a bad program. That's the way these things work in the real world.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:11 AM   #79
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Not good geographical fits?? Might want to break out the atlas!
Lexington, Kentucky is the northernmost SEC city by more than 200 miles.

Morgantown, West Virginia is located 266 miles northeast of Lexington.

Last edited by KingmanIII; May 28th, 2010 at 09:18 PM.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:55 AM   #80
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Spaz, if you're the SEC commish
I AM THE SEC COMMISH



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I would tell you that you already have Arkansas.
Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991. I remember that year so I have been knowing Arkansas was a SEC member for a very long time. Thank you for reminding me though.

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That opens the door for OU/OSU--might as well take them too, especially if you want to add championships and facilities.

This is a very ridiculous statement. Most of everyone in the SEC believe Arkansas is a big 12 school. There have been rumors that Arkansas is leaving for the big 12 for the last 10 years. So many rumors that Arkansas fans are sick of hearing this and quick to state they are staying in the SEC.

Let's see Kentucky borders Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. So that opens the door for Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Illinois to join the SEC. This is great! The SEC will have the Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis markets, this is using your logic. See how ridiculous your statement was????

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Do Mizzou and Michigan have much in common?
They are both midwest states. They are border states. Chicago and St. Louis have had a historical rivalry that dates back to the 1800's. They are culturally very similar. The geographical focus is Illinois and Missouri along with other Midwestern states having similar crops, soils, climate, and socio-economic conditions.


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What about Nebraska and Northwestern?

I say nothing here. Northwestern is located in Chicago. Nebraska is a plain state like Oklahoma.

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It's not going to be possible to expand to a 16-team "super conference" of nothing but powerful schools by retaining homogeneity.
Realllllly. Let's see. The SEC adds Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, and Clemson. The SEC has now added 4 schools in states which they already have a former member of. Homogeneity has been retained. This gives the SEC complete control of Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. Which includes some very large markets and a large state population of Florida and Georgia.

So it is possible and actually not very difficult if you think about it.


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The Big 12 is already kind of like that..how much do OU and Colorado have in common?
Colorado and Oklahoma has a very long history together. They were both members of the Big 8 conference from the years 1947 to 1996. Then they both joined the Big 12. They have been rivals and in the same conference for 63 years!!!! That is tradition and it should not be broken. Oklahoma and Colorado are also border states.

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might as well take them too, especially if you want to add championships and facilities.
The SEC could care less about OU's and OSU's championships, facilities, and tradition. The SEC has plenty of championships, great tradition, and great facilities, and great teams. The SEC is not lacking in any of these areas. They don't need OU's championships. The SEC needs large states with large markets. Oklahoma is a very small state. Every current SEC state is bigger than Oklahoma except for Mississippi and Arkansas. Adding the state of Oklahoma doesn't bring much of anything to the SEC. Gaining control of the entire state of Florida and Georgia is huge. Gaining control of Texas is huge.

This is why the SEC's top targets are Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech.


As SEC commish I am very sorry. OU is a fine college with a fine football program. I regret to inform you that the SEC will not offer you a position in the SEC. I suggest OU, Mountain West, WAC, and remaining members of the Big 12 join together to form a conference. I consider this matter close.

Thank you: Commish Papa_Spaz
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