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Old May 28th, 2010, 05:53 AM   #81
SRG
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Wow guys, I've been an OU guy my whole life, just found out we had a rivalry with Colorado.

I love how you think that Texas is so isolated that they will elect to join the SEC even if none of their familiar company goes with them. I'm not saying Texas schools are loyal to the Big 12, despite that it was built by UT and OU, but that the Texas market is linked to Oklahoma (Oklahoma is much more heavily linked to Texas, obviously) and it's more complicated than you think. You don't just add UT and suddenly get 20 mil TV viewers, in case you didn't realize. The Oklahoma schools have more grads in DFW than any other school..
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Old May 28th, 2010, 08:54 AM   #82
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What SRG said is true. There are a lot of OU people in DFW. I remember visiting there (not during the big rivalry game) and seeing OU people outnumber Texas people at times. That is one big media market that has more high schools than all of Oklahoma (they're very football savvy one could say being in Texas lol) you're talking about...4th or so in the nation?
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Old May 28th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_spaz View Post
They are both midwest states. They are border states. Chicago and St. Louis have had a historical rivalry that dates back to the 1800's. They are culturally very similar. The geographical focus is Illinois and Missouri along with other Midwestern states having similar crops, soils, climate, and socio-economic conditions.
Uh...I think that's Illinois you're talking about...

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Realllllly. Let's see. The SEC adds Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, and Clemson. The SEC has now added 4 schools in states which they already have a former member of. Homogeneity has been retained. This gives the SEC complete control of Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. Which includes some very large markets and a large state population of Florida and Georgia.
Not only that, but those interconference rivalries all of a sudden become potentially crucial SEC matchups.

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Colorado and Oklahoma has a very long history together. They were both members of the Big 8 conference from the years 1947 to 1996. Then they both joined the Big 12. They have been rivals and in the same conference for 63 years!!!! That is tradition and it should not be broken. Oklahoma and Colorado are also border states.
I still think CU belongs in the MWC if they earn a BCS berth. They would be a perfect geographical fit and could command pretty much whatever they want from the conference, plus they would be more competitive in other sports besides skiing.

I wouldn't call CU/OU much of a rivalry; the Buffs won 8 of their 17 games against OU from the year the Sooner football program went on probation to Bob Stoops' first season. Outside of that timeframe, OU leads the series 39-9-1.

Even CU/NU is a rivalry only to CU fans. The Huskers are 39-8-1 against the Buffs since the Bob Devaney era.

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The SEC could care less about OU's and OSU's championships, facilities, and tradition. The SEC has plenty of championships, great tradition, and great facilities, and great teams. The SEC is not lacking in any of these areas. They don't need OU's championships. The SEC needs large states with large markets. Oklahoma is a very small state. Every current SEC state is bigger than Oklahoma except for Mississippi and Arkansas. Adding the state of Oklahoma doesn't bring much of anything to the SEC. Gaining control of the entire state of Florida and Georgia is huge. Gaining control of Texas is huge.

This is why the SEC's top targets are Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Georgia Tech.

As SEC commish I am very sorry. OU is a fine college with a fine football program. I regret to inform you that the SEC will not offer you a position in the SEC. I suggest OU, Mountain West, WAC, and remaining members of the Big 12 join together to form a conference. I consider this matter close.

Thank you: Commish Papa_Spaz
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Old May 29th, 2010, 04:56 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteran View Post
What SRG said is true. There are a lot of OU people in DFW. I remember visiting there (not during the big rivalry game) and seeing OU people outnumber Texas people at times. That is one big media market that has more high schools than all of Oklahoma (they're very football savvy one could say being in Texas lol) you're talking about...4th or so in the nation?
There are a ton of LSU fans in Houston but Houston is not a LSU media market. It's still Texas and Texas A&M market just like Dallas. The headline newspaper stories, sport stations, news stations will all revolve around Texas and Texas A&M in Dallas.

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I love how you think that Texas is so isolated that they will elect to join the SEC even if none of their familiar company
Texas was going to do this in 1990. In 1990 Texas wanted to join the SEC very badly and they were going to go alone. The Texas legislature would not let them do this without A&M. Texas has stronger ties to A&M than OU. Maybe things have changed in 20 years but I doubt it. History might repeat itself.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #85
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Interesting article on the Big 10's expansion. Big 10's expansion will affect the SEC, ACC, Big East, and Big 12. The Big 10 are actually going after Texas. I don't think it will work.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5230627

Also, here is a post someone else graded the best options for the Big 10. I, for the most part, agree with his grades for the schools.

"Penn State was a good Athletic and Academic fit for the Big-Ten, but other candidate schools have been a bit puzzling:

Rutgers: Didn't join the AAU until 1989 (Michigan State was the most recent Big-Ten addition in 1964), besides being a "Johnny-Come-Lately" to being a real football power. Can they really deliver the New York city TV market? Grade: C+

Syracuse: Smaller school with smaller alumni base in upstate New York. Grade: C+

Pitt: Ditto Syracuse in Pennsylvania. Grade C+

Notre Dame: The only non-AAU member the Big-Ten will bend over to get, not to mention further securing the Chicago market. Grade B+

Missouri: Biggest market in the Big-XII-North. Very early AAU member (1908), and could help solidify the western flank of the league. Grade B+

Nebraska: The smallest market in the overall BCS, but early century AAU addition. Husker Nation might overshadow Mizzou Nation, but won't look impressive as a western addition to TV network executives. Grade: D

Texas: Will never happen, but they're a catch for everyone! grade: I (they're too much of a geographic outlyer to be given a complete grade!)

U-Conn: Not an AAU member and too corrupt in basketball! Grade: D-


Commissioner Jim Delany says the league needs to look south with the population and market shift."
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #86
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It looks as though they don't even know what they're doing, which may constitute real hope that Big Ten expansion won't ever happen. I think it will, some way, but I just don't see it making the Big Ten any more competitive than it already isn't.

Problems with expansion..

1. Don't know if the Big Ten realizes this..but they kinda suck. They may pick up schools like Rutgers and Pitt, and Pitt would be a good addition for certain. The thing is that conferences don't matter in academics, despite what the Big Ten may falsely pride themselves on and we know their conference doesn't matter in athletics anymore.

2. Notre Dame doesn't want to be a PART of a conference, and they have done very well on their own. If they don't have a break out season and climb into the polls again they may have to join a conference, but I doubt it. Why would they join a conference that sucks anyway?

3. Texas? Why would Texas go to great pains to join a conference that sucks in every way imaginable and is expanding with other lame schools like Rutgers and Mizzou. I really want some of whatever green leafy substance is making the Big Ten think Texas cares at all about them.

4. AAU? Obviously doesn't matter that much if Notre Dame and a bunch of other strong-academic schools won't join it. So why are they basing expansion on AAU member schools? Are they going to try and go after the MIT athletic program? For some reason I don't think that would help the Big Ten get out of its slump.

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Texas has stronger ties to A&M than OU.
Yeah, legislative ones.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #87
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If Texas is so powerful, shouldn't they go independent, like Notre Dame, and sign their own television contract keeping all the money for themselves?
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Old May 29th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #88
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Actually, there was a report on ESPN yesterday that going independent is one of the options they are considering should the Big 12 fall apart. I personally think it would make more sense than joining the SEC.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRG View Post
I
Problems with expansion..

1. Don't know if the Big Ten realizes this..but they kinda suck. They may pick up schools like Rutgers and Pitt, and Pitt would be a good addition for certain. The thing is that conferences don't matter in academics, despite what the Big Ten may falsely pride themselves on and we know their conference doesn't matter in athletics anymore.

2. Notre Dame doesn't want to be a PART of a conference, and they have done very well on their own. If they don't have a break out season and climb into the polls again they may have to join a conference, but I doubt it. Why would they join a conference that sucks anyway?

3. Texas? Why would Texas go to great pains to join a conference that sucks in every way imaginable and is expanding with other lame schools like Rutgers and Mizzou. I really want some of whatever green leafy substance is making the Big Ten think Texas cares at all about them.

4. AAU? Obviously doesn't matter that much if Notre Dame and a bunch of other strong-academic schools won't join it. So why are they basing expansion on AAU member schools? Are they going to try and go after the MIT athletic program? For some reason I don't think that would help the Big Ten get out of its slump.
The Big Ten won both their BCS games this past season and went 4-3 in bowls overall, including 1-1 against the SEC, with that loss coming in overtime to Auburn by a Northwestern team given no chance to win, and all three losses coming by a combined 14 points.

Penn State, Michigan and Iowa are a combined 20-11 all-time against current SEC members in bowl games, including 13-5 since 1993, the first year both conferences consisted of all current members. Not including Ohio State, current Big Ten schools are 18-16 in that timespan.

The Big Ten has produced at least one Final Four participant in 9 of the last 14 seasons (or since 1997, the first Big 12 basketball season), and 12 of the 56 during that span, only one behind the ACC; the Big East is responsible for 7, while the SEC, Big 12 and Pac-10 have placed 6 each.

Since the NCAA Tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985, the Big Ten has seen league members reach the national semifinal 18 times, also second behind the ACC (24). Only 14 of the Big East's 18 appearances by current members came as members of the conference; the SEC has 13 (and one by Arkansas in 1990), the Big Eight/Big 12 has 12 (all but one by former Big Eight members), and the Pac-10 has 9.

Some 'sucky' conference...
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Old May 30th, 2010, 01:27 AM   #90
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Can you also fashion an argument making Rutgers look like a football juggernaut school?
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Old May 30th, 2010, 05:28 AM   #91
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Sorry, I havent read the last couple pages and I have to be up in 6 hours so Im not backtracking, but are some of you still under the impression that the Big 10 expansion is solely about bringing in football powerhouses?

Big 10 already has a few top tier programs and if the go after Nebraska it adds another high profile program to the conference. The Rutgers addition is about getting the Big 10 football network into the New York media market. The added money from that plus an easy win most years for the Michigan/Ohio St/Penn States is what adding Rutgers is about. If they feel they wont deliver the market, then they wont get an invite. Literally has zero to do with if they are good at football.

Same thing I was saying about the SEC earlier, they dont need a school like Oklahoma that adds little in the way of home TV markets and challenges the high profile SEC teams, plus when you probably have to take Oklahoma State with them it makes little sense for the SEC to go there.

Texas is the big get out there do to the huge media footprint it brings along, Oklahoma probably isnt even being discussed be SEC people at this point.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 06:08 AM   #92
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Well what you've missed in the last few pages of the thread, to bring you up to speed, are my arguments that Texas isn't going to just join a conference because that conference wants their TV market. OU and OSU are two schools tied together by politics..but UT, A&M, and possibly others are also all tied together politically. In the 90s Baylor grads ran Austin and they forced the Big 12 to take Baylor and Texas Tech.

Sorry you have to be up so early. Get some rest man..
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Old May 30th, 2010, 07:19 AM   #93
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Quote:
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Can you also fashion an argument making Rutgers look like a football juggernaut school?
you got me there...
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Old May 30th, 2010, 07:31 AM   #94
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sweet. another conference where osu would by far have the best facilities.

go pokes!
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Old May 30th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #95
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sweet. another conference where osu would by far have the best facilities.

go pokes!
If you think OSU would have the best facilities in SEC, your up for a rude awakening.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #96
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Heh I am not even sure what makes them think they have the best in the Big 12...
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Old May 30th, 2010, 07:14 PM   #97
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It'd be interesting to watch this unfold over the next few months/year but having more than 12 teams with 4 (16 team) conferences is going to dilute conference rivalries or bragging rights. In 20 years, why not have 1 big conference - hey I've got a great name ---- Conference USA (sarcasm). Play 7 games and have a 128 team playoff to determine the champion.

While it sounds silly right now, the way money is being thrown around we might end up with 1 conference with 6 subdivisions (or what used to be the 6 major conferences).

One of the reasons (jmho) that the ACC hasn't finalized their $1.86 billion dollar contract is exit fees. The ACC commish is a shrewd business guy, he's probably gonna include penalties in excess of $10 million+ dollars to leave. He's in a great position to demand loyalty. Not sure if these kind of fees are allowed under NCAA rules, but I'm sure he's working on a monetary commitment that will damn make it impossible to justify leaving. Wouldn't you?
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Old May 30th, 2010, 11:10 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_spaz View Post
.



Texas was going to do this in 1990. In 1990 Texas wanted to join the SEC very badly and they were going to go alone. The Texas legislature would not let them do this without A&M. Texas has stronger ties to A&M than OU. Maybe things have changed in 20 years but I doubt it. History might repeat itself.
Actually, a poster on Orangebloods that deals with the higher ups in the administration said that the article proclaiming Texas wanting to head to the SEC was false. Texas wanted to go to the Pac 10 or Big 10 over the SEC and I don't think that has changed. Texas was VERY close to going to the Pac 10 but they had to take Texas A&M with them. To join the Pac 10, all the schools would have to agree to the expansion and all the schools did agree except for Stanford. They had no problem with Texas but had a problem with A&M because of the probation they were in at the time. Now they have no problem with A&M.

Texas will most likely play Texas A&M and will play with them in any conference. I think they are fine if they have to play in a difference conference than OU though. And yes, the DFW area is still Texas and Texas A&M.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:07 AM   #99
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Are Whorns fans trying to get out of playing OU? lol
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Old May 31st, 2010, 06:33 AM   #100
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If ANY of this is to happen, Texas A&M and Texas are gonna go together no matter what. I would miss not being in with Nebraska, OSU, Colorado, and OU, but the only one I would really miss is OU. As long as we are playing what if's in the demise of the Big 12, Colorado goes to Pac 10, Nebraska to Big ten with Mizzou, but where do OU and OSU go/belong?
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