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Old January 7th, 2008, 12:46 AM   #81
Rail Claimore
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I love the South. I also love the Midwest.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #82
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What, you're horny? OK....
I dont get it.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 02:50 AM   #83
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Hook em horns is a stupid college cheer.

Boomer Sooner.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 03:56 AM   #84
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Whovever wrote 'Boomer Sooner' must have stayed up all night compiling those lyrics.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #85
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Actually Virginia had very, very narrowly defeated a proposal to abolish slavery after the Nat Turner Rebellion, and the Dred Scott decision (that didn't go the way Dred Scott's family had hoped, thanks to NORTHERNER JUDGES) was another inside attempt to abolish slavery in the South. Slavery was already on its way out in the South. I would have been surprised if it had more than 50 years. Also if the South had won, become a separate nation, it's #1 ally was going to be Britain who was very against slavery.



The post-war south was a very screwed up place. Lincoln had put most of the states under military rule and took extreme steps to punish the South for sticking up for itself.
Really? Is that why a majority of northern jurisdictions ignored the Dred Scott decision? Phasing out slavery was the point of Congress banning American participation in international slave trade in the early 1800's. However, that didn't really help. The political process had broken down and was no longer able to control the slave issue. Often, the northern states tried to protect escaped slaves by giving them at least due process when the southern slave owner's tried to kidnap them and bring them back.

And to say Lincoln was pro-slavery is a little obtuse. Before he took office, the south had already seceded. He supported slavery in an effort to save the union, but vehemently opposed allowing slavery to extend to the territories.

I'm not saying the Northern states were a bastion of racial equality. It wasn't. But, there is a great moral difference between being racist, and enslaving a race.

Addtionally, who fired the first shots in the Civil War? Refresh my memory.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 04:07 AM   #86
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Really? Is that why a majority of northern jurisdictions ignored the Dred Scott decision? Phasing out slavery was the point of Congress banning American participation in international slave trade in the early 1800's. However, that didn't really help. The political process had broken down and was no longer able to control the slave issue. Often, the northern states tried to protect escaped slaves by giving them at least due process when the southern slave owner's tried to kidnap them and bring them back.

And to say Lincoln was pro-slavery is a little obtuse. Before he took office, the south had already seceded. He supported slavery in an effort to save the union, but vehemently opposed allowing slavery to extend to the territories.

I'm not saying the Northern states were a bastion of racial equality. It wasn't. But, there is a great moral difference between being racist, and enslaving a race.

Addtionally, who fired the first shots in the Civil War? Refresh my memory.
Obviously it didn't help, as the North was the nexus of the slavetrading industry in the world.

And I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that lincoln didn't wage bloody horific warfare to end slavery.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 04:28 AM   #87
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You're so right. If Stonewall Jackson could have anticipated what Florida would become, he would have pressed Lee to continue the fight.

And Edwards is nothing but a carpetbagger with a fake Southern accent.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!
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Old January 7th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #88
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"i'll put a chicken in every pot and a voucher for a $400 haircut in every wallet!"

-- John Edwards --
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Old January 7th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #89
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Really? Is that why a majority of northern jurisdictions ignored the Dred Scott decision? Phasing out slavery was the point of Congress banning American participation in international slave trade in the early 1800's. However, that didn't really help. The political process had broken down and was no longer able to control the slave issue. Often, the northern states tried to protect escaped slaves by giving them at least due process when the southern slave owner's tried to kidnap them and bring them back.

And to say Lincoln was pro-slavery is a little obtuse. Before he took office, the south had already seceded. He supported slavery in an effort to save the union, but vehemently opposed allowing slavery to extend to the territories.

I'm not saying the Northern states were a bastion of racial equality. It wasn't. But, there is a great moral difference between being racist, and enslaving a race.

Addtionally, who fired the first shots in the Civil War? Refresh my memory.
Umm Lincoln when he sent the ship with "reinforcements" to Fort Sumter?
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Old January 7th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #90
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Whovever wrote 'Boomer Sooner' must have stayed up all night compiling those lyrics.
Just 1 night...you give sooners too much credit!

Last edited by maceo9903; January 7th, 2008 at 05:36 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 05:15 AM   #91
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Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner! Boomer Sooner!

See ? I memorized the lyrics.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 05:19 AM   #92
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Umm Lincoln when he sent the ship with "reinforcements" to Fort Sumter?
My surmise is that, after seceding, the South Carolinians weren't real keen on having a federal fort in their harbor, posed to ensure the collection of onerous tariffs from the South to finance Northern industry. Lincoln first declared that the fort would be disbanded. But he was lying, as days later he shipped reinforcements to the fort and emboldened the garrison to stand firm.

I other words, the South fired the first shot in the same way the Japanese fired the first shot in WWII ... they were goaded into it.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 06:34 AM   #93
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Wow....this thread has ballooned. I had to read thru all of these posts.

I will just say that SRG and Dale are right on the money
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Old January 7th, 2008, 06:36 AM   #94
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What, you're horny? OK....
I gotta say.......I'm always horny

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Old January 7th, 2008, 06:39 AM   #95
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And Edwards is nothing but a carpetbagger with a fake Southern accent.
I thought John Edwards was born in SC and grew up in NC?

Anyways, I am not crazy about him; I am not crazy about any of the potential candidates. But his accent does sound slightly different from the typical NC accent.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #96
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In other words, the South fired the first shot in the same way the Japanese fired the first shot in WWII ... they were goaded into it.
I don't follow you. At all. If you just leave out the Japanese part then I can agree.

If anything the US was easily the victim in that war, and my liberal friends not just because Bush wasn't president at that time, but also because the US really was digging their head in the sand and ignoring a fairly potent thread building up.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 07:25 AM   #97
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Yeehaw.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 07:36 AM   #98
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I don't follow you. At all. If you just leave out the Japanese part then I can agree.

If anything the US was easily the victim in that war, and my liberal friends not just because Bush wasn't president at that time, but also because the US really was digging their head in the sand and ignoring a fairly potent thread building up.
Not to defend the rapacious Japanese empire, it is nonetheless true that Japan signalled a willingness to negotiate, and FDR refused. Japan even agreed to withdraw all its holdings, save Manchuria, if the US would lift the oil embargo. FDR refused. Further, FDR sold China American warplanes and financed the training of Chinese pilots such as to attack Japan on America's behalf. He also had the Pacific air force moved to the Phillipines. And he conducted 'pop-up' raids to provoke the Japanese.

These and other actions of FDR were provocative and served to goad Japan into firing the first shot, thus providing the lying ("I will never send your sons to die in a foreign war") FDR the pretext for entering the war against Germany (his overarching goal) throught the 'back door of the Pacific'.

And while historians argue over whether FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor in advance, none that I'm aware of deny that he roundly goaded Japan into firing first.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 07:44 AM   #99
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So how do you propose dealing with an opposing hostile empire.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 08:01 AM   #100
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So how do you propose dealing with an opposing hostile empire.
Well, first of all, I would not presume that they were going to attack us. In WWII, neither Japan nor Germany planned to attack us. And even though Japan did attack Hawaii, it could not have invaded Hawaii, much less the mainland. And Germany could not even invade England at the height of its power. So, presidents always exaggerate a threat in order to muster public support.

And second of all, it pains me to admit that, for a long time now, America has been the world's leading hostile power. We currently have half-a-million troops in over 1,000 military installations, spread over three-million acres, in 159 different countries.

If I had the power, I would close every last base and bring home every last soldier. I do not ascribe to the 'Puppy Dog Theory' of terrorism. If we mind our own business, they will not follow us home. And no ten countries in the world could launch a credible invasion of America, especially if all our troops were over here.
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