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Old January 8th, 2008, 07:34 AM   #121
snookums
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Okay, I'll start a Civil War Myths thread on NA skybar, since some of you folks are embarrased to be Southerners. At least the Yankees have the stomach for debate.
WTF?? Why is it that when we don't want to talk about the Civil War anymore, you say we are "Embarrased to be Southerners"? Have you READ my posts on here?? Maybe for some of us, we don't wanna talk about it anymore because it is painful for those of us who had relatives and ancestors who DIED during the Civil War, plus the fact that we are running it in the groud. And I thought *I* ran things into the ground I think you are getting a little carried away with this and are too prideful, Dale
I am prolly AT LEAST as proud to be Southern as you.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 07:37 AM   #122
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WTF?? Why is it that when we don't want to talk about the Civil War anymore, you say we are "Embarrased to be Southerners"? Have you READ my posts on here?? Maybe for some of us, we don't wanna talk about it anymore because it is painful for those of us who had relatives and ancestors who DIED during the Civil War, plus the fact that we are running it in the groud. And I thought *I* ran things into the ground I think you are getting a little carried away with this and are too prideful, Dale
I am prolly AT LEAST as proud to be Southern as you.
Let your actions speak louder than your words, cupcake
Nut-up, man!. Our relatives got killed about a zillion years ago.

And all you're really doing is wanting to imagine that someone of SSC is more annoying than they all say you are.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 07:43 AM   #123
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Nut-up, man!. Our relatives got killed about a zillion years ago.

And all you're really doing is wanting to imagine that someone of SSC is more annoying than they all say you are.
What do you mean with that last sentence? Are you saying that people here are saying that I am annoying? Well, I can be annoying.......
But I think you should look in the damn mirror and stfu
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #124
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Hercules, hercules, hercules.
g-man your so weird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old January 8th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #125
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How were they going to convince Congress, by force ? Force is not what the South envisioned. Force was Lincoln's modus operandi.

Look, I'm not even going to defend the South going to war. What I will do is redress the cockamamie notion of good (the North) vs. evil (the South), as well as the silly notion that the war was fought to end slavery.
No, you convince Congress by not voting for any such policy. Legislation has to pass both houses. While the House of Reps. would have leaned more to the North, the Senate was easily a 50/50 split. The south has no one to blame but themselves for allowing policy against their interests. Lincoln's main objective was keeping the country as one.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #126
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I had a relative that died during the civil war but I don't hate the south. 0_o
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Old January 8th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #127
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What do you mean with that last sentence? Are you saying that people here are saying that I am annoying? Well, I can be annoying.......
But I think you should look in the damn mirror and stfu
Whoever that forumer from Atlanta is who wants to beat you up ... maybe he'll let me have sloppy seconds.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #128
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No, you convince Congress by not voting for any such policy. Legislation has to pass both houses. While the House of Reps. would have leaned more to the North, the Senate was easily a 50/50 split. The south has no one to blame but themselves for allowing policy against their interests. Lincoln's main objective was keeping the country as one.
Not true. If it were that simple, then of course the South would have sought such a ratification. But since the South did not want war, and since, for Lincoln, 'Union' was an inviolable concept (and since he had to please certain constituents), I lay the war squarely at his feet. Only president ever to massacre Americans.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 11:29 PM   #129
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BTW, I'm talking Civil War over on NA Skybar.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 01:31 AM   #130
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BTW, I'm talking Civil War over on NA Skybar.
I'll meet you there.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 01:53 AM   #131
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"i'll put a chicken in every pot and a voucher for a $400 haircut in every wallet!"

-- John Edwards --
Good grief, Dale: If you are going to quote the southern gentleman, at least have the decency to quote him correctly:

"i'll put a dale in every pot and a voucher for a $400 plucking to make it feather free and ready to pop into the smoke house!"
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Old January 9th, 2008, 01:58 AM   #132
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The pride filled Middle West is the greatest region and the country and the one with the most sense of identity because our Big Ten warriors bruise over and conquer all the competiton is sight.

er....excuse me.....please ignore the above. i think it may need a little editing. Major revisions. Oh, hell, rip up the copy and start from scratch.

Actually my Big Ten pride has taken quite a whipping. It pains me to say but if the Big Ten joined the SEC, we'd be the new Vandy.

Back to the drawing board.

(PS....Dale, I love the South. Great region. Great schools. I will be happy to have our next president be a UNC grad. And when they color in the map in November, may we see the real Carolina blue!")
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:44 AM   #133
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edsg how long will it take you to realize that if your team joined the SEC you would lose to Vandy, it would be an insult to Vandy if we compared your team to Vandy.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 06:26 AM   #134
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edsg how long will it take you to realize that if your team joined the SEC you would lose to Vandy, it would be an insult to Vandy if we compared your team to Vandy.
Give Ed's team a break, just cause it was walloped by USC (west) does not mean it couldn't wallop USC (east) like it did OSU(central). But Vandy could probably out think all of the above schools.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 01:41 PM   #135
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Yea i dont even know wat school is his team, i though it was northwestern cuz hes from chicago...
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #136
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Not true. If it were that simple, then of course the South would have sought such a ratification. But since the South did not want war, and since, for Lincoln, 'Union' was an inviolable concept (and since he had to please certain constituents), I lay the war squarely at his feet. Only president ever to massacre Americans.
I'm not following this over to the skybar, because, frankly, you are not going to budge. You follow your "truths", and I'll follow mine. But I find it awfully ironic that you lay blame with Lincoln. The South fired the first shots of the war. You may blame the Union for being at Fort Sumpter, but does the Federal government not have a right to be at any of their military outposts in the country? Secondly, although Licoln did not recognize the South's secession, the South surely did. So, Dale, if you truly believe in the secession of the Confederacy, then at the time of the war, the southern citizens were not "Americans" in the sense of the Union. Thus, in your point of view, Lincoln did not kill Americans. He killed Confederates.

I'm finished with this.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #137
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edsg how long will it take you to realize that if your team joined the SEC you would lose to Vandy, it would be an insult to Vandy if we compared your team to Vandy.
i wish i could come up with an argument to disagree. at least i do remember the Big Ten back in a greater era. I'm not sure what the problem is, but somewhere along the way, the Big Ten needs to decide if it really wants to challenge competively in college football or would it rather be the public equivalent of the Ivy League. Sure, that's an exageration, but the way things stand now, the league is a joke. There is nothing wrong with deemphasising the importance of football on campus, but if you do, at least be honest with yourself and don't make a pretense of being competitive. That the B10 isn't doing.

Culturally in the BCS world, the Big Ten is most alligned and most like the Pac Ten; and both, quite frankly, probably take the most balanced perspective on balancng sports with athletics. But the Pac Ten, as wittnessed by USC, really does want to win and shows it in a way the Big Ten does not.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:50 PM   #138
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Yea i dont even know wat school is his team, i though it was northwestern cuz hes from chicago...
Northwestern, Illinois, Iowa....for the record. But I actually like them all. Except for Penn State. See, I have midwestern pride (to go along with southern pride here) and though I have nothing personal against PSU, I am one who was quite upset that the conference went east to take a nonregional school.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #139
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Isn't it a bit insane trying to decide who was most at fault in causing the Civil War? In reality, didn't both the North and South make this struggle inevitable by choosing to make ratification of the Constitution a far more important goal than addressing the issue of slavery? The idea was, compromise on slavery and defer the issue for a later date in order to get the states to agree upon the Constituiton, thinking the issue might died off on its own accord. Too bad they couldn't have anticipated Eli Whitney.

And what was our history throughout most of the 19th century? Keep deferring. And they did, from the Missouri Compromise to the Compromise of 1850 to the Kansas Nebraska Act, the nation refused to solve its greatest and most complex problem.

The Civil War was almost an inevitable conflict.

And the two sides of that war were equally at fault for the mess they caused in their own nation for almost a hundred years.

Point is, slavery was just as profitable for the owners ofNew England texile factories and New York financeers as it was for Southern planation owners. The powers to be were in bed with each other on both sides of the Mason Dixon line. And long before there was a United States of a set of British colonies, the issue of where slavery would exist was set in place: the lack of a cold winter that often started in fall and continued to spring was going to make the South far more inviting for slavery than the North.

Even the travesty of the Jim Crow era and the insidious way that Southern states rolled back the gains blacks made from the civil war is negated to a large degree by the brutal nature of Reconstruction that the North imposed on the South (and that Lincoln, had he lived, would never have improved of). Much of the sorry state of southern affairs in race relations and economic decline can be blamed on how the North truly acted like victors.

And in historical references, that meant that the South had no Marshall Plan or Truman Doctrine that helped Europe revive after WWII. And speaking of Europe, the North's treatment of the South after the Civil War had definite parallels to how Germany was treated after WWI by the British and French...and we all know where that led to.

There is plenty of a mess on the hands of both North and South. Can we at least share in the happy message of the Obama candidacy....whether we support him or not....that shows that in America today and after too long and finally can have an African American seriously run for the presidency of the United States.

Perhaps it is time to bury the hatchet.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:38 PM   #140
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I'm not following this over to the skybar, because, frankly, you are not going to budge. You follow your "truths", and I'll follow mine. But I find it awfully ironic that you lay blame with Lincoln. The South fired the first shots of the war. You may blame the Union for being at Fort Sumpter, but does the Federal government not have a right to be at any of their military outposts in the country? Secondly, although Licoln did not recognize the South's secession, the South surely did. So, Dale, if you truly believe in the secession of the Confederacy, then at the time of the war, the southern citizens were not "Americans" in the sense of the Union. Thus, in your point of view, Lincoln did not kill Americans. He killed Confederates.

I'm finished with this.
Frenchman.
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