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Old April 16th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #701
NWDave83
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I never even thought of it from a construction perspective, just the final design, that makes the alley vacation even more valuable, having to keep an alley there seems like it would add a ton of cost! Basicly making one project into two. Insane.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:51 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
An alley vacation is needed during construction regardless of what's built afterward. Afterward, the drive would be private property.
I'd appreciate clarification on this. If the final building intrudes into the alley right-of-way then yes a vacation would be needed but if the contractor just wants to use the right-of-way during construction I'd expect that normal street use fees would apply.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #703
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Related topic - a lot of people may not realize that the city actually takes alley property from developers as part of the requirements of many projects. I've typically seen this where a 16' existing alley gets 2 feet from each side added onto it to make it a much more useful alley. Below grade space can extend to the old property line and above grade floors can extend to the old property line but at ground level the space is "dedicated" to the city.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/cams/cam2203.pdf
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Old April 17th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasun View Post
I'd appreciate clarification on this. If the final building intrudes into the alley right-of-way then yes a vacation would be needed but if the contractor just wants to use the right-of-way during construction I'd expect that normal street use fees would apply.
I mean that for project that plans to excavate the whole block, they need an alley vacation even if they plan to build a new alley/driveway/passthrough later.

As for the alley width issue, that's infuriating....our new alleys are rediculously wide.
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 AM   #705
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Pretty good article here that explains what's on the table right now. We still have the 1600+ room hotel approved by design review a couple months ago. But, as a requirement by the city council, a back-up plan without the required alley vacation (smaller 1200+ room hotel) is needed so the City Council can evaluate both and determine whether to give the thumbs up for the sale of the alley.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/b....html?page=all
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 AM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityView Jim View Post
Pretty good article here that explains what's on the table right now. We still have the 1600+ room hotel approved by design review a couple months ago. But, as a requirement by the city council, a back-up plan without the required alley vacation (smaller 1200+ room hotel) is needed so the City Council can evaluate both and determine whether to give the thumbs up for the sale of the alley.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/b....html?page=all
So what's always baffled me is that if they left the alley it wouldn't even be really an alley in the usual sense of the word. It'd just be the outer boundary of a parking lot.

I guess that eventually, someone might build something on the parking lot, thereby making the alley into an actual alley. But IMHO this whole dispute is even stupider than most of these kinds of disputes.
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Old Yesterday, 01:07 AM   #707
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I'm wondering how much of this is a dog and pony show and merely fulfilling checklist requirements of the Council. This all may be time and money spent (wasted?) to support the original beast-plan.

Hope I'm right. I like the A-Plan better.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 AM   #708
Seasun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffloftus View Post
So what's always baffled me is that if they left the alley it wouldn't even be really an alley in the usual sense of the word. It'd just be the outer boundary of a parking lot.

I guess that eventually, someone might build something on the parking lot, thereby making the alley into an actual alley. But IMHO this whole dispute is even stupider than most of these kinds of disputes.
Very good point. This is a very odd alley layout for downtown.
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 AM   #709
NWDave83
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Here is an article on the specifics of the dispute...

http://m.bizjournals.com/seattle/new...or.html?r=full

Basicly its extortion from the local service industry union via the city council over the hotel being non union.
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Old Yesterday, 02:42 AM   #710
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Like I've said before, this is just posturing to remind the city they'll be out 156 low income units if they don't sell the rights to the alley.
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 AM   #711
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I don't know if its posturing, or just good corporate planning. I'm encouraged by the decision on the WF in W. Seattle, though.

The city has to realize with 400 fewer rooms there'll be fewer employees, and most likely those wages will be at a new $15/hr. rate when the hotel opens. Those low(er) income housing units are needed in downtown as well. The city would be foolish to disallow the larger project.
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Old Yesterday, 03:06 AM   #712
NWDave83
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Yeah, the article states the full size option (1700 room) would add-

*1200 jobs downtown.
*$591 million in annual local hotel, shopping and resturaunt taxes.
*$200 million towards the convention center expansion.
*150 low income housing units.

The arguments by the detractors and their reps on the council are-
* non union hotel workers make an average of $23000 per year as opposed to $30000 per year average union workers.
* adding 1200 new jobs downtown would "add a bunch of pressure" to city resources.

Additionally it states-
*the vacated alley would be replaced by a mid block thoroughfare for cats and pedestrians (basicly a woonerf alley) open to the public.

Any rational person can see this entire issue is complete bullshit.
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Old Yesterday, 03:25 AM   #713
geoffloftus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWDave83 View Post
Yeah, the article states the full size option (1700 room) would add-

*1200 jobs downtown.
*$591 million in annual local hotel, shopping and resturaunt taxes.
*$200 million towards the convention center expansion.
*150 low income housing units.

The arguments by the detractors and their reps on the council are-
* non union hotel workers make an average of $23000 per year as opposed to $30000 per year average union workers.
* adding 1200 new jobs downtown would "add a bunch of pressure" to city resources.

Additionally it states-
*the vacated alley would be replaced by a mid block thoroughfare for cats and pedestrians (basicly a woonerf alley) open to the public.

Any rational person can see this entire issue is complete bullshit.
cats?
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 AM   #714
NWDave83
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Eh?
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 AM   #715
Capitol Hill
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Most major hotels have a problem with pussies.
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Old Yesterday, 03:39 AM   #716
geoffloftus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWDave83 View Post
Eh?
Quote:
*the vacated alley would be replaced by a mid block thoroughfare for cats and pedestrians (basicly a woonerf alley) open to the public.
Who knew that woonerfs were plagued with cat problems.
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Old Yesterday, 04:21 AM   #717
NWDave83
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Oh, lol, I missed that one. This stupid tablet tends to change my words if I don't keep an eye on it...
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Old Yesterday, 06:22 AM   #718
geoffloftus
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Your tablet probably spends its time posting cute cat videos on YouTube when you're not watching it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:24 AM   #719
NWDave83
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Old Yesterday, 06:39 AM   #720
Capitol Hill
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City Council Approves W. Seattle Alley Vacation

http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...ealleyxml.html

I think Hedreen is offering far more than what happened in W. Seattle. so I think this alley vacation will occur.

EDIT: Am I the only one who reads the phrase 'alley vacation' and you picture a urine scented all inclusive package in a cardboard box?
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Last edited by Capitol Hill; Yesterday at 07:00 AM.
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