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Old August 8th, 2015, 08:32 PM   #221
enobarbus
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Article in the herald:
Dan White: It's time to bury the Dart Underground plan permanently:
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columni...-31432860.html

He talks about a cut and cover tunnel under the Liffey. Has anybody else ever heard of this being proposed? How exactly could this be done? If it could be done cheaply I'd be totally in favour of it - it basically achieves everything DU does, with stops possible at Docklands, Connolly, O'Connell St., Christchurch and Heuston, although it essentially makes the red Luas redundant. I'm a bit skeptical though - where does the water go while you're tunnelling under the river?
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Old August 9th, 2015, 12:39 AM   #222
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I'm a bit skeptical though - where does the water go while you're tunnelling under the river?
No where. You dig a trench in the bed of the river and lower precast concrete sections. You then cover with stone and other material and once all sections are in place and sealed you pump out the water.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 01:54 AM   #223
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I dint see any point in that at all. Where does it intersect with all the major transport nodes in the city like dart underground? The only place I see connection is at oconnel bridge. Doesn't have the massive benefit of creating 2 long commuter lines or intersecting with whatever underground luas plans there will be.

Pointless and a complete duplication of the red line
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Old August 9th, 2015, 02:26 AM   #224
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That article is yet more rubbish which has been written about DART Underground. €4 billion is the cost of the total project - tunnelling, electrification works and new rolling stock. The author also neglects to mention that DART Underground has passed every cost-benefit analysis it has been subjected to - by large margins in most cases. Also, where are the ventilation shafts supposed to go if this tunnel is dug beneath the Liffey? You also have to consider that trains have to follow a certain path for safety reasons - can we do that under the Liffey? Also, where are the station entrances and exits supposed to go if we put it under the river?

I can't stand all these articles which dismiss years of painstaking work done by CIÉ engineers and planners who have devised a route, station plans and land usages which are in sync with local property-owners. They have asked themselves all the hard questions about the project and come up with a solution which addresses them. "Solutions" like the one in this Herald article are merely half-baked and haven't been properly thought through.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 02:37 PM   #225
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Tunnelling under the Liffey, with its sizeable river current to divert and a dozen hundred-year old bridges to brace? Cheaper? Eh, no.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 03:35 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Dvblvnia View Post
That article is yet more rubbish which has been written about DART Underground. €4 billion is the cost of the total project - tunnelling, electrification works and new rolling stock. The author also neglects to mention that DART Underground has passed every cost-benefit analysis it has been subjected to - by large margins in most cases. Also, where are the ventilation shafts supposed to go if this tunnel is dug beneath the Liffey? You also have to consider that trains have to follow a certain path for safety reasons - can we do that under the Liffey? Also, where are the station entrances and exits supposed to go if we put it under the river?

I can't stand all these articles which dismiss years of painstaking work done by CIÉ engineers and planners who have devised a route, station plans and land usages which are in sync with local property-owners. They have asked themselves all the hard questions about the project and come up with a solution which addresses them. "Solutions" like the one in this Herald article are merely half-baked and haven't been properly thought through.
Absolutely spot-on Dvblvnia!!

We are world class at facilitating any and every kind of negativity.

What particularly galls me is that the Irish media have a prediliction for pandering to supposed experts often for rather base motivations, and treating their views as if they are gospel, and then not questioning them when their ramblings turn out to be groundless...but rather allowing them to climb onto another soapbox to criticize something else.

Just look at Sean Barrett, often held up as an authority on everything, but nobody challenges him based on the fact that when CIE were beginning to pursue the original DART plan, Prof Barrett was one of its most vociferous opponents. Even proposing that the Dublin-Dun Laoghaire rail line be ripped up and replaced with a motorway which would act as the Southern section of the Eastern Bypass. Utter lunacy....which he has never had to justify.

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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
Article in the herald:
Dan White: It's time to bury the Dart Underground plan permanently:
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columni...-31432860.html

How is a Dart spur to the airport an alternative to MN, which will serve North Dublin and Swords in addition to the airport?
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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:42 PM   #228
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How is a Dart spur to the airport an alternative to MN, which will serve North Dublin and Swords in addition to the airport?
Because the spur could also go to Swords, and you could eventually serve Ballymun via a Luas.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 12:44 AM   #229
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A spur is not going to cut it for swords. There isn't room to quad track it and there isn't enough capacity.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 05:27 PM   #230
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Because the spur could also go to Swords, and you could eventually serve Ballymun via a Luas.
What Thefancydanhimself said and Luas would have to go underground anyway.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 06:36 PM   #231
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Plus you are just adding to the bottleneck around the loopline bridge. DU gives another crossing of the Liffey
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Old August 10th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #232
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Well the minister for transport has recently suggested that a 'heavy rail link' is the favoured option to the airport:
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...ard-2015_08_08

Now looking at the shortlisted options, this leaves either the Clongriffin spur or a tunnel under Glasnevin:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/envir...link-1.2030474

Donohoe has said that he's paying attention to providing a fast link with high capacity, which has to rule out the Luas option surely. I'd take the tunnel under Glasnevin - it leaves open the possibility in the future of extending the line from Swords to the Belfast line and running all Dublin-Belfast trains through the airport.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #233
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Rules out everything but MN
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Last edited by Sukino; August 10th, 2015 at 08:15 PM.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 10:09 PM   #234
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Quote:
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Rules out everything but MN
Reading the Aecom North Dublin transport report that was what I took away from it as well.
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