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Old August 31st, 2005, 11:57 AM   #1
edsg25
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Moral issues on NO looting

There is no way that I would condone the looting that took place in New Orleans and other locations hit by Katrina.

Yet I do feel it is important to put that looting in perspective.

Those who could get out of the area before the hurricane hit did. In New Orleans, about 80% exited the city. And while some chose to stay behind because they thought they could ride out the storm, the main difference between the 80% that left and the 20% that stayed was income: those who could afford to do so left. I would not be at all surprised that a larger percentage of white folks got out than what would have been true in the African American community.

For those left behind due to economics, the choices were not good (look at the disaster the Super Dome ended up being). These are people who are now without electricity, food, shelter, a bed to sleep in, the ability to stay draw or even cool off. And economics (and indirectly race) are part of the reason why.

At the start of this post, I said I do not condone the looting that took place in the city. I don't. But I do understand why it took place and what the conditons in New Orleans says about the equity (or lack thereof) in our society.
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Old August 31st, 2005, 04:26 PM   #2
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Looting perishable food for personal consumption (or for children)......I'll turn a blind-eye.

Looting non-perisable food for personal comsumption......I'll grit my teeth and try to turn a blind eye.

Looting food to sell, or any non-vital-to-survival merchandise ......I would personally shoot every last person and feel good about it.
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Old August 31st, 2005, 05:55 PM   #3
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agreed with atlrvr
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Old August 31st, 2005, 06:24 PM   #4
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i'm sorry...most of the people i saw on TV looting weren't carrying baby formula and bottled water... i saw sneakers, tvs, radios, etc etc.. it wasn't survival looting it was LA riots style looting...people throwing bricks through windows and stealing all they could carry...

and if they don't have any shelter or anything just where are they taking all this stuff? i think if you are making off with a 50" widescreen chances are you still have a place to put it down...

and how much of a disaster was the superdome? certainly not big enough to justify stealing televisions


EDIT: the NA skybar is still open isn't it? i don't recall morality being an urban issue
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Old September 1st, 2005, 04:57 AM   #5
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man, it is sickening when i hear this type of stuff. the looting is horrible, and serves my city no justice. it looks like a third world country, but please, please, dont just limit this to new orleans. everytime there is a hurricane in miami, looting is prevelant. miami has never had anything this massive before, and the looting is on a smaller scale. if this would have been chicago, atlanta, detroit, n.y., or any other major american city with poor people and homeless people, i can guarentee you it would look just as bad.......



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Old September 1st, 2005, 05:21 AM   #6
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What I'm thinking is...why steal televisions, nice clothing, and otherwise materialistic items when there's no electricity, no clean streets, and no place to go?

The downtown area with all the looting is surrounded by a cesspool of floodwater - how do these people expect to escape this dead city with arms full of stolen items? The national guard is certainly not going to carry the stereo you snatched in your lifeboat out of there.

It's not an issue of poverty; it's an issue of total disrespect and stupidity.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 05:56 AM   #7
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It seems now that the Great Earthquake of San Francisco, in 1906, will be the only American natural disaster mentioned in the same breath with Katrina.

And after the earhquake, the first order given by then Mayor Smitz was to immediately kill anyone seen looting.

Wonder if San Francisco had a terrible looting problem ? I'm guessing not.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 06:17 AM   #8
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Now there's an image: a San Francisco mayor opening a can of whoop-ass.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 07:07 AM   #9
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The fools who took electronics won't last long, it's the dumbest people who die first, but how can anyone not condone taking perishable goods to survive? Who here wouldn't take food or diapers when there seems to be no help in sight? It's all about survival of the fittest, humans take on their natural instinct in order to survive.

Last edited by NWside; September 1st, 2005 at 07:13 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 04:29 PM   #10
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^ Some instincts are worse than others.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 09:50 PM   #11
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You have to remember that many of these people are so poor that they couldn't afford to evacuate.

I suspect that in many cases, they are just grabbing the things they could never have afforded under ordinary circumstances. Obviously they're not going to keep them... what are they going to do, carry a TV around until power is restored in 3 months?

And to tell you the truth, I don't have that big a problem with it. 80% of the city is underwater, people are dead in the streets, and most of these looters just lost every earthly possession they have. Who gives a shit if Wal-Mart loses some electronics out of an abandoned, waterlogged store?
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianacharm
man, it is sickening when i hear this type of stuff. the looting is horrible, and serves my city no justice. it looks like a third world country, but please, please, dont just limit this to new orleans. everytime there is a hurricane in miami, looting is prevelant. miami has never had anything this massive before, and the looting is on a smaller scale. if this would have been chicago, atlanta, detroit, n.y., or any other major american city with poor people and homeless people, i can guarentee you it would look just as bad.......



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the best you could come up with was just a criticizing post about miami.
living in miami i have not seen looting after a hurricane since hurricane andrew 1992 and then most of the looting occured in supermarkets and places where food was being stored,not stores like best buy and mayors.

most people were stealing water bottles and ice,but ofcourse there were some who went on a shopping spree but it wasn't as bad as during katrina, and for you information andrew and katrina are said to of hit at about the same force but katrina is said to of been worse because of the damage thanks to bad building codes and low elevation.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justadude
You have to remember that many of these people are so poor that they couldn't afford to evacuate.

I suspect that in many cases, they are just grabbing the things they could never have afforded under ordinary circumstances. Obviously they're not going to keep them... what are they going to do, carry a TV around until power is restored in 3 months?

And to tell you the truth, I don't have that big a problem with it. 80% of the city is underwater, people are dead in the streets, and most of these looters just lost every earthly possession they have. Who gives a shit if Wal-Mart loses some electronics out of an abandoned, waterlogged store?
This rationalization fails to account for the vast majority of poor New Orleanians who, somehow, managed to resist looting items which do not aid in survival.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:33 PM   #14
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Vast majority? May I ask how you know this?
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:36 PM   #15
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it's almost insane to bring morals into this situation. i'm sorry but if my house was washed away and i had nothing to my name i would steal food, clothing, or anything else to make my life more comfortable. most of those people only had the clothes on their backs. now i'm not sayin its right but i definitely understand.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:36 PM   #16
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Well I won't be surprise at what they are looting regardless if its food or not. Think about it, these people lost everything. All their items at their destroy house are gone. People will loot electronics to replace the ones they lost. They would not be able to afford these electronic equipments if they gain a house back. They are desperate. They want something to hold on to and many feel as though that the country owes them on this. It's instinct at its worse.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWside
Vast majority? May I ask how you know this?
so are you contending that the vast majority of people were taking part in the looting... i think that is quite obviously not the case
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 12:13 AM   #18
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Lots of rationalizing going on here. Aren't you glad that there are people in this world who are willing to go beyond 'I don't condone it, but ...' ? And wouldn't you be glad to be in the company of such people were you New Orleans right now ?
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 12:18 AM   #19
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i don't like killing people...but when i've lost everything its hard not to just take someone else's life... i mean its something i've never been able to do before... this hurricane is sorta an opportunity to try out all the neat things that were never available to me in my 'pre katrina life'
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 12:30 AM   #20
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I don't think I have a problem with those looting food and water, but under certain conditions:

-It's that many of them are probably taking what they can, while in no way helping anybody else. But that probably goes against basic human nature. Theoretically, if looting is necessary, then it should be for the greater good. I don't think that's the case though by what I'm reading and seeing.

-These jacka$$es stealing wide screen TVs and stuff. Now come on! I read one article that said the best outcome to come of that is that these people fortunately will never live to watch them. Sounds like a a good idea to steal one then, huh?

And as for these snipers that have been popping up. Absolutely despicable. Shooting at helicopters. Shooting at doctors. Is this Fallujah or something? WTF! If you were out to prove something, surely you failed, and I hope that the military and Guard troops that get down there (if they ever do) deal with these people appropriately, and by which I mean add their stats to the death toll. There is no place for behavior like that in a civilized society. I understand the Governor perfectly when she says she's furious about it, as I would be as well.

I know I feel strongly about this, maybe even somewhat irrational, but I would only hope that if I were in the same situation, that myself and those around me would act in a somewhat orderly fashion; full well knowing that's the only way anything is going to happen quickly.

Granted the apparent ineptitude of the federal government isn't helping. Let's hope to heaven we don't get another hurricane or a terrorist strike or something, or we'll all be screwed.
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