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Old August 28th, 2005, 01:38 PM   #1
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Manchester - how far will it go?

Given the rash of new skyscrapers going up how far do you think it will go? Do you think it will end up being like an American city in twentry years or so? ( have used Manchester as an example as it has the most developments of the provinces but the question applies to Glasgow, Birmingham etc too... ).
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:19 PM   #2
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oh no, this is really going to start an arguement...I'm really surprised Earlybird hasnt posted in this thread yet...

anyway, I personnaly think that the number of high rise developments in Manchester being proposed will begin to decrease. I think that the reason for that many skyscraper proposals in Manchester is because they started building them a bit before Glasgow and Brum. I think that once the first skyscraper is built in a city there will always be a lot more proposed to be in competition with it, Elphinstone Place isnt even built yet and there is already a few skyscrapers proposed, and once Elphinstone Place begins construction there will definately be more in the pipeline, probably (dare I say it) just as many as Manc (this applies to Brum too) as cities with a larger 'city centre' population can surely support this level of development also. Its just a matter of time...

I remember when Elphinstone Place was first proposed, some of the Glasgow forumers were saying that there would probably not be another skyscraper proposed (for the Charing X area) for at least 10 years...but then Elmbank was proposed and the 3 cheapside towers.


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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:35 PM   #3
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I would like to think that cities such as my very own Leeds or Birmingham could start a mini skyscraper boom but the councils are just too slow or developers are dragging there feet, I think Glasgow will probably end up like Liverpool a lot of proposals that end up being nothing more than proposals. At one time it looked like Leeds had the edge with BWP etc but Manchester has surpassed the Leeds proposals many times over and unlike the our other cities Manchester is building it's proposals.Thank god now I have moved to Manchester I can live in a city where they are building what they propose. For me Manchester is leading by a country mile and putting the likes of Glasgow, Liverpool, Leeds etc to shame
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:48 PM   #4
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Manchester will go much further. Eastgate, Hardman Square, Albany and Beetham are just the first few of many new skyscrapers. In 10 years out skyline will be one of the best in Europe.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #5
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The only limit to how much development all cities metioned imo is the economy. at the mo its strong. but if there was a major downturn then most proposals would be shelved or scrapped.

What would be great to see is office towers rising as well as residential.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:55 PM   #6
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Its true that Manchester is a city that tends to get things done instead of many fantasy proposals but remember its had a fair share of rejections too like Vectra tower whiched looked superb. The greengate proposals too seem like fantasy land at the moment. Anyone remember the rotunda like tower proposed for the free trade radisson hotel. Thank god that was rejected it looked like a giant cheese grater. lol
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Old August 28th, 2005, 04:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL BLUE
What would be great to see is office towers rising as well as residential.
Exactly what Manc is doing. We've got just 25,000sqft of vacant Grade A space in our city centre, and there have been several 100,000sqft+ lettings recently including one to the Bank of New York, most of these filling new build 10 storey high buildings. At The Pinnacle on King Street a sky high office rent set a new record for Manc - £34 per sqft. The office market is very strong.

1 Hardman Square will be upto 600,000sqft and 45 storeys high, should have no trouble filling up as we have demand for upto 5 million sqft of new space in the next few years, enough to fill half a dozen 40+ storey office blocks.

Demand for flats is starting to wane a little because so much has been built recently, but we can certainly support a few more big hotels.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 05:02 PM   #8
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I dont think that Glasgow will end up like Liverpool, GCC will really approve most things that are proposed now, unlike a few years ago. This is a good thing and a bad thing, as good developments (like Elphinstone Urban Village, Elphinstone Place, Elmbank, Tradeston, Graving Docks and hopefully Cheapside) will be approved, but shoody developments like Mizu, which I still have never saw more than a cartoon of, have been approved also and is currently U/C...you just have to hope that it will look ok
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Old August 28th, 2005, 06:17 PM   #9
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Royal Blue is spot on.

The economy is the only thing that could, and probably will hold Manchester back eventually.

But as long as it keeps going strong, then there is no reason why Manchester shouldn't have one of the best skylines in Europe for sure. Personally I'm delighted that there is so much going on in Manc - you guys are paving the way for the rest of the provincial UK cities in terms of highrise developments, and it seems that our cities are beginning to follow suit.

Long may Manchester's high rise boom continue, I say. No reason why it shouldnt.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 06:22 PM   #10
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I'm hoping Manc can go a lot further... but not sure where the limit should be.. I don't think we'll end up with as dense as some American cities, again we've already mentioned that Manchester will not have any real cluster, but a 'ring' of tall towers around the city fringes (well, mainly).. which will give dense and impressive skyline views, yet not impose the street level.

I just think Manc now needs some towers which a little extra to the shape, we're blessed with fine clad designs (mostly) and the height, Just think its time we get some curves and angles on the sky.

Overall I think Manc has the best boom at the mo, and will seem that way for a while..it'll slow down probably, and other cities may catch up again. Brum having the strongest present skyline doesn't need to be as fast anyway. With Orion and HCT being the biggest present U/C has helped that a lot..it just needs some more starting up on par with HCT's height.

Liverpool, tough one to call, it will have an amazing skyline on the waterfront.. (would of been miles better with the rejected tower mind isolated on its own).. Liverpool just needs get rid of the Lib Dems from its council, lol..

Glasgow is the dark horse, once its stunning tower gets up, and the other designs start to then it will get noticed a lot more I feel.

Leeds seems to have an impressive portfolio of proposals and some funky renaissance style towers in the form of Venture, CP etc.. give a nice unusual skyline.

London, well.. they just need to get their arses in motion.. then they'll put us all to shame, lol.. But Its a superb time for our Cities, finally being proud and realising that preservation of what we have doesn't mean stifling the time we're in now.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
I think Glasgow will probably end up like Liverpool a lot of proposals that end up being nothing more than proposals
As yet Liverpool has only turned down Chieftain Tower and Brunswick Quay. Beetham, Beetham West (30 & 40 storeys), Alexandra (27), Unity (27 & 17) and City Lofts (20 & 10) are all either built or under construction. Add to this the 28 storey Lime Street Gateway, which has already been approved, Central Station tower (reported at 38 storeys and due to go for planning permission soon), Windsor Tower (25 storeys, withdrawn from planning for 'amendments') King Edward tower and Vermont tower, both reportedly the tallest in the city if and when built. Maro are already appealing the Brunswick Quay decision, and would likely win a third application if they amend their proposal further.

Nothing ever gets done in Liverpool.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 06:27 PM   #12
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3 main factors will drive Manchesters highrise boom on!

1. Knowledge capital!
2. Manchester University!
3. financial and media institutions!
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Old August 29th, 2005, 06:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb
3 main factors will drive Manchesters highrise boom on!

1. Knowledge capital!
2. Manchester University!
3. financial and media institutions!
1. Knowledge capital of what,the north west maybe. But manchester isnt known for its educated population.

2. Students generaly leave once they are done. hence wh Cambridge, oxford, nottingham and loughbourgh arent major cities despite having huge universities. Therefore a large university will not result in tall buildings.

Your 3rd point however is true. Finacial institutions moving to a city will gereally result in high rise buildings.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 07:01 PM   #14
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Royal Blue, the presence of the university will attract more law firms and financial institutions. Thousands of newly qualified students leaving uni every year just down the road, wanting quality jobs, and city centre apartments.

And you have mis-understood the concept of the Knowledge Capital initiative.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 07:02 PM   #15
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As regard Manchester and all othe cities, i think that we will have to acknowledge than none of our cities will be like the london and frankfurts........

i can only talk about Birmingham for this as i am very familiar with past proposals. in the late 80's early 90's, birmingham was quite on a boom. we had just built the ICC and NIA bringing life back into the city centre and bring in business on a scale we could ot comprhend..... and alont with this came a number of large tower proposals..... Snowhill.... 40 storey office block with spire......Rotunda .....due to be replaced by a 30 storey office tower looking very similar to the crystler building. this was all sort fo sparked off by the construction of the Hyatt and there was a real sense of a new begining......

byut then came the economic downturn predicted and all were halted.

manchester is ahaead of all its competitors at the moment in terms of skyline and yes all cities in the race have many cards up their sleeves..... and with the amount of inner city flats that are being built in manchester, birmingham, liverpool its only a mater of time before office towers start to rise. i mean in birminghamoffice rents have soared to over £28sqft....and most of our cities have some of the worlds mot expensive rates.... but one bad day on the FTSE could spell doom for us all.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 07:07 PM   #16
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We just need construction companies too take a gamble and build big office blocks. Its easier to attract multinational companies when the infrastuctor is already in place.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 10:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
1. Knowledge capital of what,the north west maybe. But manchester isnt known for its educated population.

2. Students generaly leave once they are done. hence wh Cambridge, oxford, nottingham and loughbourgh arent major cities despite having huge universities. Therefore a large university will not result in tall buildings.

Your 3rd point however is true. Finacial institutions moving to a city will gereally result in high rise buildings.
Royal Blue!

1. How do you define a well educated population/city?

2.Manchester University is world famous! It is one of the top Universities in the world, and one of the top 3 in the UK! Manchester has the biggest student population in Europe, and all places for next term were filled with in 36 hours, with thousands of other students missing out on places! You'll also find many University students who complete their courses decide to stay in Manchester, because they can find the careers and salaries they are looking for!

No a large University doesn't create tall buildings, but a good University does!
The Bank of New York chose Manchester for various reasons, one being its well educated work force!(they could have gone elsewhere) 350 vacancies were created! Many went to well qualified students, who inturn decided to buy apartments in the city centre!

Business=students=apartments=developers=towers

Quote:
24 November 2004
The bank of New York selects Manchester as location for major new growth centre

The Bank of New York, a global provider of security services, announces that it has selected Manchester to be the location for a new growth centre for its business in the UK and Europe, to support the Company's growth over the next five to ten years. In making its selection, The Bank of New York partnered with MIDAS (Manchester Investment and Development Agency Service) and the Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA), and is currently working with FPD Savills to identify the best location and facility within Manchester for this major new office.

Plans have identified an initial requirement for 40,000 sq ft. It is expected that approximately 350 jobs will be created by summer 2006.

Commenting on today's announcement, Tim Keaney, Executive Vice President and Head of Europe, The Bank of New York said, "The Bank of New York has seen substantial growth in its activities in the UK and in Europe in the past five years. We expect that growth to continue, and in planning for this are delighted to announce this exciting new office project. We chose Manchester because it has an excellent transport and business infrastructure, a wide and deep pool of talent, and it aligns with regulatory and customer expectations of diversifying our business locations. We face an exciting future of growth whilst providing customer excellence, and the new Manchester office will be at the centre of this."

Steven Broomhead, Chief Executive of the Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA), said: “The NWDA is pleased to work alongside MIDAS (Manchester Investment and Development Agency Service) to support this major new investment in Manchester by The Bank of New York, which is solid evidence of the ever increasing confidence in the city as a international business location. England’s Northwest was recently named by UK Trade and Investment as the UK’s top region for job creation, and this major investment by one of the world’s leading financial institutions will build on this success, reaffirming the region’s competitive position in the global economy.”

In the UK, The Bank of New York employs 3,000 staff and currently has offices in London, Swindon, Liverpool and Edinburgh, and remains committed to these locations.

Last edited by jrb; August 29th, 2005 at 10:52 PM.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 10:51 PM   #18
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Manchester University certainly attracted me to come to Manchester...
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Old August 29th, 2005, 11:25 PM   #19
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manchester does not have the largest student pop in Europe, I thought that it was just EB who made up claims like that! and I am afraid Manchester Uni isnt one of the 3 best universities in Britain either!
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Old August 30th, 2005, 12:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
manchester does not have the largest student pop in Europe, I thought that it was just EB who made up claims like that! and I am afraid Manchester Uni isnt one of the 3 best universities in Britain either!
If it's not got the largest student population then it must be pretty close to it, I have never seen so many students in one city, the pubs are full of them !

Manchester Uni is without a doubt the largest in the UK by a long way. A title that once belonged to Leeds I believe.
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