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Old December 10th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #41
Khuitlio
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I see the documents are up:

Some nice renders, I think it looks very nice

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481914.pdf

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481930.pdf

Also it appears the taller building is 57m
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #42
thebig C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khuitlio View Post
I see the documents are up:

Some nice renders, I think it looks very nice

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481914.pdf

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481930.pdf

Also it appears the taller building is 57m
Thanks buddy! Welcome to the forum

57m......hmmmm am I being cynical in viewing this as bending over backwards to stay below the sacred cow 60m!! Which only exists because that happens to be the approx height of Liberty Hall...
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:11 PM   #43
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Thanks buddy! Welcome to the forum
Thanks! Been following the forum for over a year, time to start contributing.

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Originally Posted by thebig C View Post
57m......hmmmm am I being cynical in viewing this as bending over backwards to stay below the sacred cow 60m!! Which only exists because that happens to be the approx height of Liberty Hall...
I looked at all of the elevation drawings and in one of them they have the 'SDZ Height Line' basically a line from Millennium Tower to Google, 57m was as high as they could go without being rejected.

Here it is:

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481967.pdf

Looking at it for a second time I think I may have been wrong and the taller building will in fact be just under 53m with a roof level of 57m (not to sure what that actually means)
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #44
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Well, I was busy for a couple of weeks combined with insomnia meaning that I was either too occupied or too tired to give some serious attention to SSC. Wow, what a difference a few days makes, a (semi) highrise for Dublin, The Rugby World Cup Bid and the dust sheets taken off Dart Underground/Metro North to boot!! Good times.

In examining this project, I would say that overall I view it pretty favorable. I like the finish which will be applied to the buildings. I think they have made good use of the space available and utilized the worthwhile historic structures to their full potential.

Likewise, I think they have done an excellent job with the design treatment, given that they obviously had a target sq.m in terms of lettable space and public open space. With that in mind, the use or wedge shaped buildings and offset lines is the most economical to avoid boxy structures.

Having said all that, I can't help feeling that the effect of having 3-4 similar sized towers ranged along this portion of the basin will be visually dull. Obviously, this isn't a NAMA or Architectural problem, but sits squarely on the shoulders of the planners. One would almost think that, in grudgingly allowing anything to creep above 6 floors they are taking a parting swipe in ensuring that the parameters are so anti-innovation in philosophy, that they as a consequence result in drab conventional buildings that will almost by design serve the anti-highrise lobby's cause.

C
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #45
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Thanks! Been following the forum for over a year, time to start contributing.



I looked at all of the elevation drawings and in one of them they have the 'SDZ Height Line' basically a line from Millennium Tower to Google, 57m was as high as they could go without being rejected.

Here it is:

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00481967.pdf

Looking at it for a second time I think I may have been wrong and the taller building will in fact be just under 53m with a roof level of 57m (not to sure what that actually means)
The 57m may refer to a "structural level" ie accounting for any plant such as air-conditioning units/water reservoirs which are often housed on the roof (and not always as well hidden in Dublin as they are in other cities were preoccupation does not stop at the top parapet)!!

I think the line drawing you refer to shows the constraints the Architect was operating under! Having to deliver x amount of space but curtailed in his design. Sure, thats the job of an Architect, but there are much better reasons for design compromise then simply to acquiesce to bias.

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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #46
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I think the new proposal looks better than that. Glass looks really bad in our climate - just look at how ugly all the new towers in London are.
Actually buddy, I think when appropriate quality glass is used it can weather very well, or weather less in a Northern European Climate. Likewise, certain types of stone cladding or even coloured concrete can look good for decades, if it is of adecute quality. The problem in Ireland (and often in the UK) is the use of untreated concrete, poor quality glazing and often very inappropriate wooden/metal cladding.

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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #47
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Yes the 'height line' is utterly ridiculous and I wonder who thinks these things up. It's like everything in the city in capped on, or compared against, the height of Liberty Hall. Nothing seems to get last the 15 floor mark. I'm quite sure that the SDZ would have capped the maximum building heights of 40-60 metres as specified in the first draft if people (including those in this forum) hadn't made representations in relation to how daft that actually was. If this proposal goes ahead we'll have a cluster of about 6 buildings all around the same height of 15 floors or so in this area. Anyway, the proposal has grown on me and looks rather well. I'm looking forward to seeing it going up. We've had little of no cranes in the city for the last 6 years so bring it on ! I also read in one of the Sunday Papers that there are up to 7 projects ready to go in the docklands.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:34 PM   #48
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Just looking through some of the renders on the link that Khuitlio kindly posted, some of my fears appear to be realised. Whilst this development itself is of high quality, the overall effect of 5 buildings of very similar height, ranged from Milenium Tower, through this development to Montevetro is exceedingly banal. Near uniform parapets, done right as in Merrion Square, can be a joy to behold. That trick is harder to achieve with modern buildings then solid Eigtheenth Century Town Houses. The vista here is drab and oppressive even. I can't help but think that combining the two office blocks into a single much taller but more elegant tower would have had a more enlivening but interesting effect.

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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #49
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Yes the 'height line' is utterly ridiculous and I wonder who thinks these things up. It's like everything in the city in capped on, or compared against, the height of Liberty Hall. Nothing seems to get last the 15 floor mark. I'm quite sure that the SDZ would have capped the maximum building heights of 40-60 metres as specified in the first draft if people (including those in this forum) hadn't made representations in relation to how daft that actually was. If this proposal goes ahead we'll have a cluster of about 6 buildings all around the same height of 15 floors or so in this area. Anyway, the proposal has grown on me and looks rather well. I'm looking forward to seeing it going up. We've had little of no cranes in the city for the last 6 years so bring it on ! I also read in one of the Sunday Papers that there a up to 7 projects ready to go in the docklands.
You sum the problem up succinctly Viking! This development does indeed look to be of excellent quality. Its the philosophy underpinning (or constraining it) which is the problem.

In addition, much like the proliferation of 32 Storey projects during the boom, as a result of this childish and unprofessional attitude to anything of any scale, I fear developers and architects operating in the reality of economics but hemmed in by the twilight zone that is planning in Dublin, will out of sheer necessity submit a raft of projects in the 50-60m range. Which would have an effects as dreary as IFSC Phase ii, except a few floors taller.

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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #50
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I would be a fan of better use of the space available by putting in more green space and taller buildings which gives back more to the occupants and community. The current application really uses too much available space. Our planners have an opportunity ( and a responsibility?) to encourage the better use of space.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 10:13 PM   #51
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I would be a fan of better use of the space available by putting in more green space and taller buildings which gives back more to the occupants and community. The current application really uses too much available space. Our planners have an opportunity ( and a responsibility?) to encourage the better use of space.
Property developers.. responsibility?
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Old December 10th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #52
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I would be a fan of better use of the space available by putting in more green space and taller buildings which gives back more to the occupants and community. The current application really uses too much available space. Our planners have an opportunity ( and a responsibility?) to encourage the better use of space.
Indeed, thats where a little extra height could actually be of significant benefit to public space.

I like your idea regarding roof gardens. That are a far too rarely used phenomenon in Dublin.

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Old December 13th, 2014, 10:19 PM   #53
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Looks nice. Please tell me this SDZ isn't under the watch of An Bord Pleanala? I read somewhere that submissions are approved by DCC and cannot be appealed to them. Hopefully that's true. ABP would probably reject this scheme on the grounds the shadows cast by the buildings upsets some pigeons.
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Old December 14th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #54
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All of the SDZ has already gone to Pleanala. Therefore if the buildings comply with the plan, they can't be appealed.
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Old December 14th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #55
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THey can't be applealed, no but the SDZ was drafted by DCC to be approved by Pleanala and they've made it restrictive enough so that the pigeons won't be upset.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 01:23 AM   #56
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Councillors not happy with the lack of hoursing provision in the plan.

details here

http://www.thejournal.ie/bolands-mil...78521-Jan2015/
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:41 AM   #57
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Councillors not happy with the lack of hoursing provision in the plan.

Urgh, come on dan
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #58
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They could have fitted more in had it not been for the arbitrary storey limits.

If DCC councillors are so outraged by the lack of housing provision and low residential density in new development then they should have a look in the mirror and their utterly ridiculous cap on building height and general avoidance of higher-rise development.

I'm still not 100% sold on this development. I'm worried it'll date quickly.
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Old January 15th, 2015, 11:54 PM   #59
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[QUOTE=thebig C;119786881 I can't help but think that combining the two office blocks into a single much taller but more elegant tower would have had a more enlivening but interesting effect.

C[/QUOTE]

Exactly, ever since I saw the Aqua Vetro proposal I could see how well a 100m building would fit in there. It would mark the high point of a crescendo of buildings along the DART line starting with the Gasworks building. 100 metres would be far more defining and eye-catching in this area than two blocks of 50 metres.
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Old January 16th, 2015, 03:19 PM   #60
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They could have fitted more in had it not been for the arbitrary storey limits.

If DCC councillors are so outraged by the lack of housing provision and low residential density in new development then they should have a look in the mirror and their utterly ridiculous cap on building height and general avoidance of higher-rise development.

I'm still not 100% sold on this development. I'm worried it'll date quickly.
Lamentably, this sort of objection is going to increase in frequency. In our infinite wisdom Dubliners elected a collection of Sinners and Trots to DCC, who have all made careers out of opposing everything. Many also seem to be of the view that social housing should consist of semi-Ds with front and back gardens. Furthermore, most of them only have experience of being "Community Workers" and appear to know nothing about the Private Sector and Economics in general!

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