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View Poll Results: Do you support the proposed design for College Green Civic Plaza
Yes 31 81.58%
No 3 7.89%
Undecided / No Opinion 4 10.53%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:45 PM   #61
celtcia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc8036 View Post
I have no issues with cycling but in my view cycling should be prohibited in this area, cycle lanes interacting with pedestrian walkways do not work particularly in areas with heavy footfall and this will certainly fall into that category. Visitors should be able to aimlessly ramble around the plaza without looking out for cyclists
Cycle lanes interacting with a crossing is normal...
If you want to ban bicycles in the primary civic space I'm neither here nor there but if you provide a cycle lane many are not even going to bother with the main plaza area if it's defined...

The Councillors have put a lot of heat on the grand canal design... Most people think it is badly designed...

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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #62
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I really hope it passes through ABP. anyone know when they will be officially applying for planning permission?
ABP might not even let them then apply for planning permission...
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:48 PM   #63
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I'm almost certain it was built, I remember seeing it myself, i'm 90+% certain. They must have buried the track.
I don't know why they didnt bury a track in the middle of the current widely spaced tracks. Either way only a few days work to jack hammer 50 metres up...
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Old May 10th, 2017, 04:03 PM   #64
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ABP might not even let them then apply for planning permission...
Could you flesh that out a bit? Any evidence, reason, suggestions that ABP won't allow Dublin City Council to apply for this project?
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Old May 10th, 2017, 07:41 PM   #65
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Thankfully the designers don't agree with this. Cyclists need to be able get around the plaza but there definitely should be efforts to keep the speed cyclists travel through the square slow. It has to be pedestrians who are prioritised over everyone else.

I really hope it passes through ABP. anyone know when they will be officially applying for planning permission?


If it goes ahead as depicted in those renders you will end up with mess very similar to the Samuel Beckett Bridge. DCC should send a planner down there any day between 8-10am to witness the mayhem.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 11:13 PM   #66
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If it goes ahead as depicted in those renders you will end up with mess very similar to the Samuel Beckett Bridge. DCC should send a planner down there any day between 8-10am to witness the mayhem.
All the fault of cyclists no doubt? Nothing to do with the poor design of Samuel Beckett bridge in comparison to the logical design to the proposed College Green.

Alas, inevitably it will have to be changed to appease car park owners etc
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Old May 10th, 2017, 11:28 PM   #67
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Nothing here that couldn't be fixed by a robust policy of mandatory jail terms for cyclists who hit pedestrians on the plaza - and anywhere else that they are not supposed to be cycling.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 12:20 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by mmc8036 View Post
If it goes ahead as depicted in those renders you will end up with mess very similar to the Samuel Beckett Bridge. DCC should send a planner down there any day between 8-10am to witness the mayhem.
In fairness, the Beckett Bridge is a perfect example of cyclists actually abiding by the rules, and being ****ed over by pedestrians. It is an extremely dodgy place to cycle, especially if you combine the unpredictable peds with the bizarrely slippery bridge surface and rainy days.

Whatever complete idiot decided that the cycle lane must suddenly disappear on a tight downward curve should be fired out of a rocket into the sun btw.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 02:59 PM   #69
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In fairness, the Beckett Bridge is a perfect example of cyclists actually abiding by the rules, and being ****ed over by pedestrians. It is an extremely dodgy place to cycle, especially if you combine the unpredictable peds with the bizarrely slippery bridge surface and rainy days.

Whatever complete idiot decided that the cycle lane must suddenly disappear on a tight downward curve should be fired out of a rocket into the sun btw.


The cycle lane on the SB bridge was clearly an after thought, it is a nightmare for cyclists and pedestrians, with the plaza design we have an opportunity to get it right.

My issue with the current design is that the cycle lane runs across the intersection where College Green meets Nassau street. I would expect the a huge volume of pedestrians to stream down from Grafton St into the plaza, the positioning of the cycle lane should be moved or alternatively cycling is not permitted within the area.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #70
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The cycle lane on the SB bridge was clearly an after thought, it is a nightmare for cyclists and pedestrians, with the plaza design we have an opportunity to get it right.

My issue with the current design is that the cycle lane runs across the intersection where College Green meets Nassau street. I would expect the a huge volume of pedestrians to stream down from Grafton St into the plaza, the positioning of the cycle lane should be moved or alternatively cycling is not permitted within the area.
Yes but there will no longer be a pedestrian junction to bunch pedestrians on College Green/Grafton street junction so pedestrians will spread out better, also Suffolk street is also being pedestrianised so a lot of pedestrians will enter College Green from Church Lane.

There will also be a reduction in pedestrians walking through the green heading towards O'Connell street as there will be a Luas carrying a lot of the current pedestrian traffic.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 05:59 PM   #71
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TheJournal.ie - Concern that too many taxis could 'clutter' the new College Green civic plaza

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At present, the decision to allow taxis to use the bus and tram corridor at College Green has been granted on a trial basis.

DCC’s traffic management plan for the area states that the decision following the taxi trial would be based on whether taxis impede bus or Luas operations.

A taxi rank currently at College Green would be moved further west on Dame Street.
At the very least, taxis should be banned from dropping off and picking up passengers at the plaza - especially while the Luas is operating.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 10:18 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Catmalojin View Post
TheJournal.ie - Concern that too many taxis could 'clutter' the new College Green civic plaza



At the very least, taxis should be banned from dropping off and picking up passengers at the plaza - especially while the Luas is operating.
That should be ruthlessly enforced, the same goes for the other side of the plaza as I can see the turnaround area becoming a defacto taxI rank.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 11:10 PM   #73
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Taxis should be banned from bus and tram lanes altogether. But that's an argument for another day.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 06:07 PM   #74
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Would like to see some outdoor bars and restaurants for Fosters Pl. Nicely sheltered from the wind and rain.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 09:24 PM   #75
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Dublin City Council - College Green Project - Environmental Impact Statement
Quote:
PART X Planning and Development Act 2000 as amended

Part 10 Planning and Development Regulations 2001 as amended

College Green Project


Dublin City Council proposes to seek the approval of An Bord Pleanála for the following development in accordance with Section 175 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended. An Environmental Impact Statement has been prepared in respect of the proposed development.

This is an application for approval for the development of a civic plaza and ancillary traffic management measures on an overall site of 1.396Ha. (of which the plaza component covers an area of c.7,300 m2), currently comprising roadways and pathways on a site which includes the full area of College Green and Foster Place (to the south of Bank of Ireland (former House of Parliament)) and immediate west of Trinity College and encompasses parts of Church Lane, Trinity Street, St. Andrew Street, the northern end of Grafton Street, and the southernmost part of College Street. The eastern edge of the proposed plaza is demarcated by the north-south alignment of Luas Cross-City (currently under construction), and runs westwards as far as Anglesea Street (with a maximum east-west length of 148m).

The Environmental Impact Statement, plans and particulars of the proposed scheme will be available for inspection free of charge or purchase at a cost not exceeding the reasonable cost of making a copy during public opening hours excluding Bank Holidays for the period from the 18th May 2017 to 30th June 2017 at the following locations:
  • Dublin City Council, Planning and Property Development Department, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8 (opening hours Monday to Friday, 9.00am to 4.30pm);
  • An Bord Pleanála, 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1 (opening hours Monday to Friday, 9.15am to 5.30pm).

The details may also be downloaded below

<list of documents>

Submissions and observations may be made in writing to An Bord Pleanála at 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1 on or before 5:30 pm on the 30th June 2017 relating to the implications of the proposed development for the proper planning and sustainable development in the area concerned and the likely effects on the environment of the proposed development, if carried out. Any submission/ observation must be accompanied by a fee of €50 (except for certain prescribed bodies).

The Board may give approval to the application for development with or without conditions or may refuse the application for development. A person may question the validity of a decision of the Board by of judicial review under Order 84 of the rules of the Superior Courts (S.I No. 15 of 1986). Practical information of the review mechanism can be found on the Citizen Information Board Website at www.citizensinformation.ie and on the An Bord Pleanála website at www.pleanala.ie.
Plenty of documents included in the above link.

edit: The one most of us will be interested in is this, the Planning Drawings combined document (Big PDF!). They're available individually in the main link also.

The Design Report and EIS Non-Technical Summary are also worth looking at.
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Last edited by Catmalojin; May 18th, 2017 at 09:41 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 10:24 PM   #76
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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #77
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Thanks for uploading those. It'll be a fantastic addition to the city. Long, long overdue.

Does anyone know what the plan is for Dublin Bus? Seems like Dame Street is going to be a big bus terminus with doubledeckers turning at Fosters Place. Not great at all.

Ideally you would pedestrianise Dame St. all the way up to the junction at Georges St. Could Dublin bus work around that? Their insistence on terminating practically every route in the city centre and using historic streets as bus termini has to change.

Would also like to see all streets between Grafton and George's pedestrianised as well. What to do about the car parks though.


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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #78
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Does anyone know what the plan is for Dublin Bus? Seems like Dame Street is going to be a big bus terminus with doubledeckers turning at Fosters Place. Not great at all.
Yeah double decker buses making 180degree turns while general traffic uses the same space to reach Church Street will be a disaster.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:38 PM   #79
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those carparks are going to block a lot of progress in that area because of buisness very frustrating
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Old May 19th, 2017, 12:28 AM   #80
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The trees really make this space, don't they?

btw...where are the Luas poles?
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