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View Poll Results: Do you support the proposed design for College Green Civic Plaza
Yes 31 81.58%
No 3 7.89%
Undecided / No Opinion 4 10.53%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 24th, 2017, 11:56 PM   #121
Wilderbeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtcia View Post
How many new trees are there?
Where? If Paris etc then you don't need to keep planting new trees if you let the existing ones mature...that's the thing about trees; most have a much longer life without human support than our 250-year old buildings - most of which would long since have started to decay without constant upkeep and renovation

Look at the Taisce panic about the Iveagh market built circa 1910 and closed less than 20 years ago...it's in danger of collapsing unless someone spends €30 million on it! There are people about who've lived longer than that without needing to be re-built...

Last edited by Wilderbeast; May 25th, 2017 at 12:06 AM.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:03 PM   #122
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This might be a stupid question, but is there a reason for the big gap between the Luas lines right in front of Trinity?
They are very close together from Grafton Street area, then diverge.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:03 PM   #123
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Future Luas extension west
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #124
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If you look at the north bound line it curves out to the left in the front of Trinity then curves back right again onto Westmorland street. This leaves quite a gap between the other line right where the pedestrian crossing will be.
I'm assuming there's a logical reason.
Is it to be an island for crossing pedestrians?
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Old May 27th, 2017, 05:28 AM   #125
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Future Luas extension west
And that is clearly not going to happen now with the Plaza; so why did they leave the wide span in place at the very location of heaviest pedestrian and cyclists crossing/conflict on the entire line?

The inflexibility of our dysfunctional planning system is truly awesome...

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I'm assuming there's a logical reason.
As above; there is a reason (there always is )...but it has nothing to do with logic....
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Old May 27th, 2017, 03:50 PM   #126
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Wasn't there to be a right turning bus lane in that gap? Pre-plaza design, of course.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:41 PM   #127
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https://i2.wp.com/irishcycle.com/wp-...size=650%2C276
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Old May 27th, 2017, 07:44 PM   #128
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good answer. If you look at the older plans that included a right turn onto Dame street, the gap is for a lane of traffic.
I guess its a shame they couldnt change it
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Old May 27th, 2017, 11:01 PM   #129
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Remember that the plaza has no permission from ABP yet. Should it fall foul of them then the turning lane between the tracks will still be necessary. Can't expect LUAS to change the design on foot of a potential development - a development that wasn't planned when the railway order was granted.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 01:02 AM   #130
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Yep, the Luas design is the Luas design for no plaza existing, it can't presuppose that the plaza will go ahead at all.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 01:44 AM   #131
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Yep, the Luas design is the Luas design for no plaza existing, it can't presuppose that the plaza will go ahead at all.
This speaks clearly of a completely un-joined-up planning system.

And the un-joined-upedness is, all in all, one of the system's lesser critical failures
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Old May 28th, 2017, 02:13 AM   #132
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One issue with it is that it makes the pedestrian crossing much wider than it needs to be.

Another issue i have is that it tightens the space between the Luas and Boi which will have the two way cycle lane and a busy footpath. It seems like a pinchpoint which could be avoided.

I agree that's it's bad planning to not have joined up thinking on this.
Surely good urban design and planning is about the interaction of people, space and traffic.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 02:36 AM   #133
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You can see in above image it might be quite tight.
Also not included in the render is that one of the electricity poles is right on the footpath at the pinch point, so another couple of feet is lost.

I'm not expert on engineering, but would it be a big job to move 20m of track a few feet?
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Old May 28th, 2017, 03:23 AM   #134
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This issue was raised in a DCC meeting last year. I can't remember if I saw in on the webcast or read it, but it was suggested that the northbound track be realigned. This was a good bit before the northbound track was laid. Of course nothing came of it and it was built as per the original plans. TII weren't going to change their plans unless forced to.

A complete waste of space if it doesn't actually need to be there.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 04:25 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry_man View Post


I'm not expert on engineering, but would it be a big job to move 20m of track a few feet?
Given our dysfunctional legal/planning nexus, apparently is would be an absolutely humongous job to narrow the tracks at that point before they decide whether Luas F will ever be built!

Engineering? To move the track for a few years or a decade...almost a non-issue.....

But, the commentators here seem to actually embrace the bondage of the legal/planning nexus and actually find comfort in that embrace, which facilitates endless pointless arguments about irrelevant trivia while nothing serious gets built. (And then they blame the politicians!)

Last edited by Wilderbeast; May 28th, 2017 at 04:30 AM.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 05:42 AM   #136
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I'm not expert on engineering, but would it be a big job to move 20m of track a few feet?
I wouldn't imagine more than a couple days work. But that also depends on the infrastructure and overhead wires. The other issue is once fully opened it would likely be done at night.

Either way it should have been planned for and even laid if not used then you give need to adjust the wires.
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Last edited by celtcia; May 28th, 2017 at 05:48 AM.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilderbeast View Post
The inflexibility of our dysfunctional planning system is truly awesome...
You want to know some numbers:

Dixon Jones/Paul Keogh Plaza area: 1700m2 - Fountain 293m2 = 1407m2
Celtcia Plaza area 2350m2 - Fountain 185m2 = 2165m2

There plaza design is 65% the size of Celtcias!

The design has more in common with Queens Square in Belfast than Ireland the resemblance is striking!
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Old May 28th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #138
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I'd imagine that most of the realigned track could be put in place in the space between the two tracks at night with no disruption.
Then they might have to disrupt things for a few days to connect it either end and move the electricity etc. I think it would be totally worth it.
This is based on the assumption that the foundation wouldnt need digging, but like i said, im clueless about these things.
It's interesting that it came up in a meeting and nothing was done about it.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #139
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I think there'll be another pinchpoint at the other side by the Lush shop and Tourist Office and track realignment would help a little here too
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Old May 29th, 2017, 02:21 AM   #140
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Quote:
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It's interesting that it came up in a meeting and nothing was done about it.
Might have been Binchy in 2016.
The tight space is proposed at 2m...
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