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Old May 18th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #12101
bialterminal
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Originally Posted by psychedelic View Post
How exactly is China catching up with US when they can't indigenously design a single decent car, even when ripping off other's designs left and right?
The same way US ripped off designs (&scientists) to leapfrog in their space program, form what is known today as NASA and get to the moon in the 60s. Every country does it and has done it in the past. When an outside country does it to the home/host country without an official agreement in place it is labelled as "espionage". But of course, that doesn't mean discourage innovation in one's own country.

Last edited by bialterminal; May 18th, 2017 at 07:16 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #12102
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Originally Posted by barrykul View Post
Too much rickety stuff shown in World Media outlets repeatedly to brain wash people into believing the worst of India.
This is what i don't get; are people that dumb to be brainwashed? And secondly; why does India think that the foreign media is having the time or is bothered about showing India in good light or bad light? A country IS what IT IS regardless of so called "media bias". Till 2008 we had shit holes for airports that changed in just 5 years; and now people who have gone to India are talking about it.

Let me give some examples of portrayal of countries to prove a point -

What is the 1st thing that comes to mind about Switzerland? A CLEAN, peaceful country with beautiful rolling green pastures and snowbound mountains. No matter what the media tries to say otherwise or portray it differently..perhaps trying to portray it as a warn torn, filthy country...people are not going to buy it.

Same with US; which as a lot of negatives..like gun violence, country being run by lobbyists (and high level corruption), failing healthcare plans etc. etc.

Same with Pakistan; reality is that is is a hotbed of terrorism..but if media tries to portray it as a peaceful, beautiful country like switzerland people are not just going to buy it. IT IS what IT IS - a hotbed of radical terrorists.


Same with India; many negatives - FILTHY Country, Open defecation. Horrible infrastructure like non functioning sewage systems, bad footpaths. There are various positives like - world class airports that are much better than US and European airports now; India's space program....but for our own good India needs to clean up on a massive scale and revamp it's basic infrastructure for it's own good...people outside will then automatically start talking and will stand in a queue to visit India and immigrate to India.

To conclude; right now in the American Media it is all about TRUMP, Terrorism (Middle East & Pakistan); China & Russia. Once in a while India comes up in the context of H1B and job losses. Let's forget the Media in foreign countries and come out of the mode that they are out to portray India in bad light. Success speaks for itself...many people know about the world record 104 satellites launched by ISRO now; many people know about world class IGI T3, CSIA T2 & KGIA, RGIA. But unfortunately many people also know about the Dharavi slums, many people know about the filthy streets etc. and that is reality. It is ALL about presentation and then marketing my friends. We have the most beautiful monument unlike any other in the world..the TAJ MAHAL..linked by a world class expressway..but alas...what hits you in the eye are the filthy streets of Agra so the people (& the media) will unfortunately see both.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 08:15 PM   #12103
bialterminal
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Originally Posted by bhargavsura View Post
You can blame all you want to for their lack of understanding of the truth but there are many things which are out of our control. Media is hypocrite. It can talk something one day and do completely opposite of what it preaches. So let's do things in the best way and let them notice and then show it to the world. We don't want or should not brag our capabilities but maybe just be a silent deer in the herd - something like Japan. It is not being talked about everyday but has been an awesome country with regards to culture and development. But no one can dare point negatives of this nation for that it doesn't have that many. But yet it has earned respect of outsiders.
India has a lot of talent and has not done justice to it's potential; the South/East Asian region in general has also immense talent and could have changed the course of world history, much different than it is today. In my opinion this is what is holding the region back -

1) First and foremost, Congress & the Gandhi clan screwed the country for 60 years. Politicians continue screwing the country.
2) Too much infighting within ourselves in India fueled by identity politics.

At a wider regional geo-political level -

1) India - Pakistan are fighting.
2) China and India have tensions (and have fought one war).
3) China is fighting with (and hates) almost every major neighour (Japan, India, Vietnam)
Imagine if India, Russia, China & Japan come together in a geo-political & economic alliance for everlasting peace and progress? We could then
- form our own security council & kick major western powers out of global dominance.
- be an economic power house with major innovations. We could come out with 4 or 5 companies the size of Boeing & Airbus put together.

Pakistan's only existence seems to be the destruction of India. India, Pakistan, China and Japan spend so much money on arming themselves to the teeth trying to fight each other regionally...much like neighbours spending on arming themselves to fight each other...only to benefit the defence industries in US,UK and France. All this money could have been spent on education, health and improving basic infrastructure.

Any guess on the longest (and peaceful) land border in the world? It is the US-Canada border...not a single shell fired (or shall i say bullet?) at each other. THAT is a major factor in 2 of the most successful countries in the North American continent and the world.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #12104
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Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
India has a lot of talent and has not done justice to it's potential; the South/East Asian region in general has also immense talent and could have changed the course of world history, much different than it is today. In my opinion this is what is holding the region back -



1) First and foremost, Congress & the Gandhi clan screwed the country for 60 years. Politicians continue screwing the country.

2) Too much infighting within ourselves in India fueled by identity politics.



At a wider regional geo-political level -



1) India - Pakistan are fighting.

2) China and India have tensions (and have fought one war).

3) China is fighting with (and hates) almost every major neighour (Japan, India, Vietnam)

Imagine if India, Russia, China & Japan come together in a geo-political & economic alliance for everlasting peace and progress? We could then

- form our own security council & kick major western powers out of global dominance.

- be an economic power house with major innovations. We could come out with 4 or 5 companies the size of Boeing & Airbus put together.



Pakistan's only existence seems to be the destruction of India. India, Pakistan, China and Japan spend so much money on arming themselves to the teeth trying to fight each other regionally...much like neighbours spending on arming themselves to fight each other...only to benefit the defence industries in US,UK and France. All this money could have been spent on education, health and improving basic infrastructure.



Any guess on the longest (and peaceful) land border in the world? It is the US-Canada border...not a single shell fired (or shall i say bullet?) at each other. THAT is a major factor in 2 of the most successful countries in the North American continent and the world.


Good point, but only talent is not enough. It requires good management. At government level and at company level.
Basically unless the government or the top management of the region, and the corporate of course, is focused to industrialize and willing to overcome the obstacles only then development comes.
Like for example land issues, how difficult will it be for government to actually pay off the farmers or land losers amount asked, when they splurge on useless stuff.
Or else it is always what you described, shit we could do it if only....
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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:48 PM   #12105
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Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
India has a lot of talent and has not done justice to it's potential; the South/East Asian region in general has also immense talent and could have changed the course of world history, much different than it is today. In my opinion this is what is holding the region back -

1) First and foremost, Congress & the Gandhi clan screwed the country for 60 years. Politicians continue screwing the country.
2) Too much infighting within ourselves in India fueled by identity politics.

At a wider regional geo-political level -

1) India - Pakistan are fighting.
2) China and India have tensions (and have fought one war).
3) China is fighting with (and hates) almost every major neighour (Japan, India, Vietnam)
Imagine if India, Russia, China & Japan come together in a geo-political & economic alliance for everlasting peace and progress? We could then
- form our own security council & kick major western powers out of global dominance.
- be an economic power house with major innovations. We could come out with 4 or 5 companies the size of Boeing & Airbus put together.

Pakistan's only existence seems to be the destruction of India. India, Pakistan, China and Japan spend so much money on arming themselves to the teeth trying to fight each other regionally...much like neighbours spending on arming themselves to fight each other...only to benefit the defence industries in US,UK and France. All this money could have been spent on education, health and improving basic infrastructure.

Any guess on the longest (and peaceful) land border in the world? It is the US-Canada border...not a single shell fired (or shall i say bullet?) at each other. THAT is a major factor in 2 of the most successful countries in the North American continent and the world.
Most of the impressions of India are because of terrible state of affairs in our gateway cities. The level of poverty and filth in Mumbai, Kolkatta and to some extent delhi affects our image negatively. Mumbai filth and poverty is unimaginable. It seems year after year our government refuse to deal with the issue including current govt. If you land in Mumbai on a business trip and see really the worst slums surrounding airport, highways and railways do you think you will consider India ready to jump to become middle income country?. I don't think we lack resources to clean out the mess our politicians show no will. Suresh Prabhu again and again has refused to clean out really the worst slums on railway land in Mumbai.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 01:50 AM   #12106
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Originally Posted by mintikashyap View Post
Most of the impressions of India are because of terrible state of affairs in our gateway cities. The level of poverty and filth in Mumbai, Kolkatta and to some extent delhi affects our image negatively. Mumbai filth and poverty is unimaginable. It seems year after year our government refuse to deal with the issue including current govt. If you land in Mumbai on a business trip and see really the worst slums surrounding airport, highways and railways do you think you will consider India ready to jump to become middle income country?. I don't think we lack resources to clean out the mess our politicians show no will. Suresh Prabhu again and again has refused to clean out really the worst slums on railway land in Mumbai.


There is more filth in the minds of people in Delhi than there is real filth on the streets of Mumbai and Kolkata combined...
Just one visit there will confirm what I am saying. Sad it is our capital..
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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:41 AM   #12107
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Maiden run of premier Goa train likely on Mon
TNN | May 19, 2017, 06.45 AM IST
Maiden run of premier Goa train likely on Mon
Mumbai: Railway minister Suresh Prabhu is likely to flag off the inaugural run of the Mumbai-Karmali Tejas Express, a train with state-of-the-art facilities, on Monday. Sources said the 20-coach Goa-bound train would start from CST.

The train would be the first in the history of the Indian Railways to have automatic doors and secured gangways. "The train is likely have a Shatabdi-class fare structure," a senior railway official said.

The train is likely to run five days a week. It is expected that the train would take less than 11 hours to cover the distance between the city and Karmali. Besides the choicest cuisine curated by celebrity chefs, there will be Wi-Fi facilities.

An announcement made by the Central Railway in October 2016 said the train was expected to depart from CST at 12.20 am and arrive in Karmali at 11 am. On its return journey, the train will depart from Karmali at 12.20 pm and arrive at CST at 11.45 pm.

The final time table is yet to be approved and it is possible that the train schedule might change.

En route, the train may have halts at Thane, Panvel, Chiplun, Ratnagiri, Kudal and Thivim.

The train will also have water level indicators in bio-vacuum toilets, sensorised taps, hand driers and toilet engagement boards.


The interior colour scheme of the train will match the exterior.

There will be LCD screens meant for entertainment purposes which will also be used for disseminating passenger-related information and safety instructions.


Many other facilities such as tea and coffee vending machines and magazines are expected to be available on board.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:44 AM   #12108
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Anand Vihar railway station fifth cleanest in Delhi
TNN | May 18, 2017, 08.25 AM IST
Quote:
Anand Vihar railway station fifth cleanest in Delhi
NEW DELHI: The Anand Vihar railway station has been ranked fifth cleanest among the A1 category stations surveyed in the latest Swachh Railway Report — the cleanest in the capital ahead of its more heralded rivals, Old Delhi (24th) and New Delhi (39th) stations. Anand Vihar's cleanliness is helped to an extent by the smaller passenger load than the other two, but it also has some practical design features that helps it manage waste and dirt better.

Stations whose annual earning is more than Rs 50 crore come under A1 category.

Setting the station apart is the use of 10-metre wide subways instead of foot-over-bridges. This feature helps reduce the passenger congestion on the platforms.

Railway officials said that another unique feature of the station was the loading of parcels, food and linen on trains in the stabling area rather than at the platform. This has greatly reduced the chances of garbage and litter accumulating on the tracks.

"On all other stations including Old Delhi, Nizamuddin and New Delhi, parcel goods, food items and linen are loaded on the platform. Moreover, at Anand Vihar, exit rooms don't open towards the platform but towards the main entry to the station to ensure that food items or garbage do not end up on the platform or the tracks," said RN Singh, divisional railway manager (New Delhi).

In addition, Anand Vihar has an underground drainage system designed to keep the tracks clean. The tracks also have the provision for being cleaned by spray machines that run on the central line between the platforms. "A lot of plantation work has also been carried out in the non-operational areas at Anand Vihar to promote beauty and cleanliness, and we are conducting a survey that will aid us in carrying out similar developments at Nizamuddin, Old Delhi and New Delhi railway stations," added Singh.


Meanwhile, the New Delhi railway station will soon see an operational waste-to-energy plant becoming operational as part of a green initiative. This power plant is likely to handle most of the waste load generated at the station. At Old Delhi, there are plans to install solar panels.

Railways officials opined that a higher passenger load could be the reason why New Delhi railway station lagged so far behind in the Swachh Railway survey.


"New Delhi station is as old as Anand Vihar," said an official. "But the higher footfall there when compared with Anand Vihar is one reason why the cleanliness levels there are slightly below other stations in Delhi. But work is under way to improve the situation there."
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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:04 AM   #12109
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Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
This is what i don't get; are people that dumb to be brainwashed? And secondly; why does India think that the foreign media is having the time or is bothered about showing India in good light or bad light? A country IS what IT IS regardless of so called "media bias". Till 2008 we had shit holes for airports that changed in just 5 years; and now people who have gone to India are talking about it.

Let me give some examples of portrayal of countries to prove a point -

What is the 1st thing that comes to mind about Switzerland? A CLEAN, peaceful country with beautiful rolling green pastures and snowbound mountains. No matter what the media tries to say otherwise or portray it differently..perhaps trying to portray it as a warn torn, filthy country...people are not going to buy it.

Same with US; which as a lot of negatives..like gun violence, country being run by lobbyists (and high level corruption), failing healthcare plans etc. etc.

Same with Pakistan; reality is that is is a hotbed of terrorism..but if media tries to portray it as a peaceful, beautiful country like switzerland people are not just going to buy it. IT IS what IT IS - a hotbed of radical terrorists.


Same with India; many negatives - FILTHY Country, Open defecation. Horrible infrastructure like non functioning sewage systems, bad footpaths. There are various positives like - world class airports that are much better than US and European airports now; India's space program....but for our own good India needs to clean up on a massive scale and revamp it's basic infrastructure for it's own good...people outside will then automatically start talking and will stand in a queue to visit India and immigrate to India.

To conclude; right now in the American Media it is all about TRUMP, Terrorism (Middle East & Pakistan); China & Russia. Once in a while India comes up in the context of H1B and job losses. Let's forget the Media in foreign countries and come out of the mode that they are out to portray India in bad light. Success speaks for itself...many people know about the world record 104 satellites launched by ISRO now; many people know about world class IGI T3, CSIA T2 & KGIA, RGIA. But unfortunately many people also know about the Dharavi slums, many people know about the filthy streets etc. and that is reality. It is ALL about presentation and then marketing my friends. We have the most beautiful monument unlike any other in the world..the TAJ MAHAL..linked by a world class expressway..but alas...what hits you in the eye are the filthy streets of Agra so the people (& the media) will unfortunately see both.
The western media definitely has a bias when covering parts of the world different from their own, and lot of westerners do tend to revel in poverty porn. What else can explain their decidedly uniform narrative when it comes to such vast places as India, Africa and China? I rarely come across an opinion piece emanating from the West which delves into how disruptive colonialism is one of the direct causes of continued poverty in this part of the world. No reporter from a BBC or a NY Times has apparently discovered that India, despite it's mind-numbing diversity and low police-to-population ratio, has largely remained peaceful and has a relatively low violent crime rate. How is it that almost every story about this country emanating from the west is either about poverty or how the caste system supposedly interferes with every aspect of our sorry lives? I can understand the average westerner not having a deeper understanding of a country thousands of miles away from their own, but I just don't don't buy that reporters covering the country can't look beyond such a lopsided narrative.
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Last edited by psychedelic; May 19th, 2017 at 06:13 AM.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:26 AM   #12110
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I think lot of people are in denial. The airports may be nice in India now, but drive 100 kms and it still looks like a warzone. Why has the civic administration collapsed - even the basics aren't there like garbage collection. The problem is it never existed in the first place. To provide these basic level of services, you need a city administration that is reasonably functional, relatively corruption free. That is a rare thing
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Old May 19th, 2017, 11:24 AM   #12111
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Originally Posted by psychedelic View Post
I rest my case.
There is nothing to rest. Always keep on evolving

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How exactly is China catching up with US when they can't indigenously design a single decent car, even when ripping off other's designs left and right?
China is way behind in Car design but they have the ability to evolve and soon will catch up. The test labs they have built in are most modern and better than available in most US car companies. China is not like India where we keep on producing same Ambassador for decades till it acquired heritage status. South Korea was in the same positing few decades back and now compete with best in world. Its just Q of time China will catch up.

Quote:
It's not hard to see that you don't like the government garnering praise in this thread, so you decided to derail it with nonsense. I won't be holding it against you though, since you're obviously an unabashed Samajwadi Party supporter.
What is in to praise Suresh Prabhu? You can celebrate opening of wifi, water ATM or milk booth not me. How you reached conclusion that I am Samajwadi party supporter? Since I did not appreciate Suresh prabhu you assumed I am supporting Samajwadi Party?

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Remember how you predicted civil war in India 2 years ago? I still haven't forgotten. Well, look around you. There's no civil war. Things were never as bad as you were told they were. Similarly, the railways are slowly being improved under the current dispensation. And you won't see the change coming until it's right in front of your eyes, unless you decide to stop looking at everything through red and green tinted glasses.
Where I predicted civil war? I always wish for one but I know nothing will happen as Indian just cant react and evolve.
Slow improvement wont take us anywhere. IR and many similar govt organization need surgical strike and Modi had mandate to do it. He failed to deliver. Tinkering can be done by anyone and wont take us anywhere.
We need radical changes to create jobs in India. 1/3rd from IITs could not find jobs this time and ask placement cell on what kind of jobs students got. You will be surprised to know Coaching classes are one of hottest jobs. Coaching classes are biggest employer and one of highest paying jobs in IITs.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 04:21 PM   #12112
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There is more filth in the minds of people in Delhi than there is real filth on the streets of Mumbai and Kolkata combined...
Just one visit there will confirm what I am saying. Sad it is our capital..
Ok this thread is getting weirder! Civil war

I didn't mean to diss Mumbai or Kolkatta. I love Mumbai, I only lived in that city out of 3!

All I wanted say is we have limited resources. We spend them building toilets in villages well and good but our gateway cities people live in filth. Why don't we first improve them to world or Asian standards so that we have some positive image in western media. 80% journalists / travelers from outside will venture only to cities.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #12113
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I think lot of people are in denial. The airports may be nice in India now, but drive 100 kms and it still looks like a warzone. Why has the civic administration collapsed - even the basics aren't there like garbage collection. The problem is it never existed in the first place. To provide these basic level of services, you need a city administration that is reasonably functional, relatively corruption free. That is a rare thing
Problem is there are too few people in our country who cares about garbage collection and footpaths. The ones who care are a miniscule amount. And this is not a rich poor thing. Even middle class people living in metros don't bother about infra except when it affects traffic. They care about traffic, so we have flyovers and metros. Bus transport is a cesspool of filth because people don't bother. Same with trains.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #12114
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do not worry nothing will happen. we are too lazy to do anything. We love status quo and in the maintaining status quo we do not realize we are in terminal decline.

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Ok this thread is getting weirder! Civil war

I didn't mean to diss Mumbai or Kolkatta. I love Mumbai, I only lived in that city out of 3!

All I wanted say is we have limited resources. We spend them building toilets in villages well and good but our gateway cities people live in filth. Why don't we first improve them to world or Asian standards so that we have some positive image in western media. 80% journalists / travelers from outside will venture only to cities.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 10:38 PM   #12115
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The western media definitely has a bias when covering parts of the world different from their own, and lot of westerners do tend to revel in poverty porn. What else can explain their decidedly uniform narrative when it comes to such vast places as India, Africa and China? I rarely come across an opinion piece emanating from the West which delves into how disruptive colonialism is one of the direct causes of continued poverty in this part of the world. No reporter from a BBC or a NY Times has apparently discovered that India, despite it's mind-numbing diversity and low police-to-population ratio, has largely remained peaceful and has a relatively low violent crime rate. How is it that almost every story about this country emanating from the west is either about poverty or how the caste system supposedly interferes with every aspect of our sorry lives? I can understand the average westerner not having a deeper understanding of a country thousands of miles away from their own, but I just don't don't buy that reporters covering the country can't look beyond such a lopsided narrative.
Fact 1) USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, HongKong have all been occupied by colonial powers in the past. Look where these countries (or region as in the case of HongKong) are today and how they have progressed? Why are Indians complaining about colonization for their current ills brought on largely to to an extent by the Congress Gandhis and their cronies?

Fact 2) It is very convenient to forget how the English language (a remanant of India's colonial past) and western capitalism & globalization have put us on the world map and made India an economic power for other countries to sit up and take notice. Both have lifted millions out of poverty and made many millionaires and billionaires. A very biased view isn't it to leave this important fact out? Minus the English language i would shudder to think where India's economy would be now (with a non existent software industry).

And, should i remind folks that the colonial masters could enter & survive largely due to a lot of infighting among the local kingdoms in that era?

Fact 3) Not just Western media, even the desi media is equally biased. But, the fact is that in addition to the so called "media bias"; there is a "bias" on the media consumer's part as well who are largely uninformed and do not do their homework

Fact 4) Your statement "No reporter from a BBC or a NY Times has apparently discovered that India, despite it's mind-numbing diversity and low police-to-population ratio, has largely remained peaceful and has a relatively low violent crime rate. How is it that almost every story about this country emanating from the west is either about poverty or how the caste system supposedly interferes with every aspect of our sorry lives? " cannot be farther from the truth. That is typically how politicians talk; distract and blame outsiders for the ills at home (blame the western media, corrupt western influence etc.; don't get me wrong; politicians in US/Europe also do the same). Here are various media reports/documentaries that my non-Indian friends have told me about and are very impressed becaue of which they want to visit India now (i infact watched these documentaries after i hear about these from my Non-Indian friends) -

On IITs
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/imported-from-india/

On SOLAR Power in India
http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...g-dangerously/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3Uc-0OYgcLGLXw

Hyderabad Metro
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hvOwq--n9uHHnw

Mumbai Airport
http://www.dannyforster.com/tv/build...tional-airport

Delhi Airport
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3ecNSi98pd5X4g

World's busiest wailway Mumbai
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02xxsb5

We cannot deny the fact that there is filth, overflowing garbage, overflowing drains, rude indisciplined drivers, noise pollution (constant honking). Law enforcement is a joke on the streets and corruption is rampant. Media (both Western & Eastern) media will show these too in addition to the positive things i mentioned above; but when they show these negatives that we don't like which hits us in the face then we can't cry "media bias".

And there is another report+documentary (again, a non indian friend..an aviation enthusiast told me about) which i have watched -
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womeninth...umentary-film/ [This link has a link to the documentary i am talking about]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-38253471

Opinion -> Colonialism definitely had it's ills/issues. But it also brought positive things like railways, the English language, unification of warring kingdoms/provinces to form modern India.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - India and ALL Indians must learn from Germany & Japan (flattened by bombs in WW2 due to their follies and especially Japan that was demolished by 2 nuclear bombs). They were further occupied by Western "colonial" Powers for a few years after the war. Look what these 2 countries have achieved? I urge every Indian to visit Japan; that is a country to be saluted for it's achievements with limited resources (high speed bullet train in operation for 50+ years without a single fatality - http://brandinsider.straitstimes.com...in-50-years-2/) and has some of the most cultured, sincere, self disciplined and hard working people that i have seen during my visits to different countries.

LASTLY

Hum honge kaamyaab, hum honge kaamyaab...oho man mein hai vishwaas, pooraa hai vishwaas...hum honge kamyaab ek din.

Muh band..kaam chaalu. Pehle Kachda saaf karo (I am talking about human garbage sitting in Parliment, State Assemblies, CM posts etc). PM post se to kachda hat gaya hai ab. Phir, sadkon se kachada (iam talking about actual garbage here) saaf karo, gandi naaliyon ko saaf karo (our sewage/storm water drainage infrastructure is non existent). Aur jahan kachada nahi hai...safai maintain karo (teaching starts from school and home). It is that simple (yet so complicated).

And bringing back the thread to Railway topic...all Indians should challenge themselves and their government; how can we emulate Japan's safety record of ZERO fatilities in their 50+ years of bullet train operations. Policians play vote bank politics even in Railways versus improving safety.
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Last edited by bialterminal; May 20th, 2017 at 12:35 AM.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #12116
RONGHOSH77
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The point about Japan is spot on..
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Old May 20th, 2017, 03:18 AM   #12117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
Fact 1) USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, HongKong have all been occupied by colonial powers in the past. Look where these countries (or region as in the case of HongKong) are today and how they have progressed? Why are Indians complaining about colonization for their current ills brought on largely to to an extent by the Congress Gandhis and their cronies?

Fact 2) It is very convenient to forget how the English language (a remanant of India's colonial past) and western capitalism & globalization have put us on the world map and made India an economic power for other countries to sit up and take notice. Both have lifted millions out of poverty and made many millionaires and billionaires. A very biased view isn't it to leave this important fact out? Minus the English language i would shudder to think where India's economy would be now (with a non existent software industry).

Opinion -> Colonialism definitely had it's ills/issues. But it also brought positive things like railways, the English language, unification of warring kingdoms/provinces to form modern India.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - India and ALL Indians must learn from Germany & Japan (flattened by bombs in WW2 due to their follies and especially Japan that was demolished by 2 nuclear bombs). They were further occupied by Western "colonial" Powers for a few years after the war. Look what these 2 countries have achieved? I urge every Indian to visit Japan; that is a country to be saluted for it's achievements with limited resources (high speed bullet train in operation for 50+ years without a single fatality - http://brandinsider.straitstimes.com...in-50-years-2/) and has some of the most cultured, sincere, self disciplined and hard working people that i have seen during my visits to different countries.
.
There is a glaring difference between the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ and India and many countries in Africa. The former were settler colonies where migrants mostly from the UK went and populated those regions. They became prosperous as the colonies were autonomous and ran the region in their best interests

India was managed by a tiny overpaid administrative class who used policies like divide and went home with fat pensions. The colonial administrative class wasn't very good in truth, the standard of living was actually declining

Generally all ex British administrative colonies are not doing well except for the small city states of Hongkong and Singapore. The longer the period of colonial rule the more tensions in society it seems

British colonial rule benefited a small class of Indians who were able to effortlessly merge with the US and the West. Speaking English has not really been an advantage if you look at from country's perspective, not your own personal advantage. Its an unfortunate case the other countries that don't speak English have done a lot better. India as a country hardly counts - nobody mentions it

Actually m_1973s point about civil war is not farfetched. The USA went through civil war before it emerged as powerful country. It was struggling at one point - in the 1850s the dollar had different values and the USA was known for copying. Its literature was like Indian English literature - largely derivative. Its only good leadership from the likes of Abraham Lincoln and the victory of the north that created a dominant culture

Japan and Germany were sophisticated states before WW2. Germany is European culture. Japan was fast modernising. In fact WW2 was bad for business because companies like Honda was actually started in the 1930s. Sochiro Honda was the son of a roadside bicycle repair man, not some rich capitalist

What does this had to do with IR. Well IR is continuing in the best traditions of the British Raj. Most foreign articles salute it on this basis when they do

Last edited by carrera7; May 20th, 2017 at 04:03 AM.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #12118
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India has gone through the period when there was an actual danger of civil war. That threat is almost non-existent now. Also, civil war has rarely helped any country to grow. The US example is from a different era (different world order, where wars, civil or otherwise, were usual occurrence).
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Old May 20th, 2017, 10:46 PM   #12119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
Fact 1) USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, HongKong have all been occupied by colonial powers in the past. Look where these countries (or region as in the case of HongKong) are today and how they have progressed? Why are Indians complaining about colonization for their current ills brought on largely to to an extent by the Congress Gandhis and their cronies?
Carrerra7 has given a good reply to this statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
Fact 2) It is very convenient to forget how the English language (a remanant of India's colonial past) and western capitalism & globalization have put us on the world map and made India an economic power for other countries to sit up and take notice. Both have lifted millions out of poverty and made many millionaires and billionaires. A very biased view isn't it to leave this important fact out? Minus the English language i would shudder to think where India's economy would be now (with a non existent software industry).
Before it lifted millions out of poverty in India, Western Capitalism and Globalization in its colonial avatar impoverished millions and perhaps caused untold damage to societies including ours. Lets not act like colonialism had nothing to do with capitalism and globalization.
Its not like before 1991 we were never on the global map. In fact in many ways we are claiming our rightful place after centuries of subjugation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
And, should i remind folks that the colonial masters could enter & survive largely due to a lot of infighting among the local kingdoms in that era?
There is no justification for colonizing a country. e.g. Just because there is infighting in Africa doesn't justify it for asians, europeans or Americans to colonize and exploit the continent

Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
Fact 4) Your statement "No reporter from a BBC or a NY Times has apparently discovered that India, despite it's mind-numbing diversity and low police-to-population ratio, has largely remained peaceful and has a relatively low violent crime rate. How is it that almost every story about this country emanating from the west is either about poverty or how the caste system supposedly interferes with every aspect of our sorry lives? " cannot be farther from the truth. That is typically how politicians talk; distract and blame outsiders for the ills at home (blame the western media, corrupt western influence etc.; don't get me wrong; politicians in US/Europe also do the same). Here are various media reports/documentaries that my non-Indian friends have told me about and are very impressed becaue of which they want to visit India now (i infact watched these documentaries after i hear about these from my Non-Indian friends) -
It is a fact that despite numerous problems in India, Indian society is still low in crime, something to do with our traditional values encouraging moderation. Western societies often experience large crime waves when problems such as those in India start increasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
We cannot deny the fact that there is filth, overflowing garbage, overflowing drains, rude indisciplined drivers, noise pollution (constant honking). Law enforcement is a joke on the streets and corruption is rampant. Media (both Western & Eastern) media will show these too in addition to the positive things i mentioned above; but when they show these negatives that we don't like which hits us in the face then we can't cry "media bias".
No one on this forum is denying these problems in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
Opinion -> Colonialism definitely had it's ills/issues. But it also brought positive things like railways, the English language, unification of warring kingdoms/provinces to form modern India.
All the benefits you mentioned were incidental. Colonialism in general left more problems to grapple with than any benefits. Criticize the railways all you like (I do so regularly). But lets not forget that we inherited a railway system which was somewhat fragmented with 4 different gauges, pretty much single lined, powered by steam and with vast areas such as Konkan, some Northeast states, Ladakh and Kashmir valley without any connectivity. Since independence despite our obvious shortcomings IR has reguaged majority of our network, electrified and doubled close to two-fifths of the network, eliminated steam completely and have added thousands more kms in remote places to our network and we did this with pretty much our own internal revenues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bialterminal View Post
MOST IMPORTANTLY - India and ALL Indians must learn from Germany & Japan (flattened by bombs in WW2 due to their follies and especially Japan that was demolished by 2 nuclear bombs). They were further occupied by Western "colonial" Powers for a few years after the war. Look what these 2 countries have achieved? I urge every Indian to visit Japan; that is a country to be saluted for it's achievements with limited resources (high speed bullet train in operation for 50+ years without a single fatality - http://brandinsider.straitstimes.com...in-50-years-2/) and has some of the most cultured, sincere, self disciplined and hard working people that i have seen during my visits to different countries.


And bringing back the thread to Railway topic...all Indians should challenge themselves and their government; how can we emulate Japan's safety record of ZERO fatilities in their 50+ years of bullet train operations. Policians play vote bank politics even in Railways versus improving safety.
No one here is disagreeing with the exceptional record of Germany and Japan.

Humbleness is a virtue and we must learn from the successes and failures of others but, we must also guard against arrogance and condescension.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 07:51 AM   #12120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ”bialterminal”
This is what i don't get; are people that dumb to be brainwashed? And secondly; why does India think that the foreign media is having the time or is bothered about showing India in good light or bad light?
Looks like you have answered your own conjecture. But friend you seem to have a very shallow view of media and the political games they play.

Just take space: for a very long time the foreign media has played into the fictional story that they created space exploration and others stole from them. Really? Fact is Russia paved the path through space exploration prior to the US. Dr. APJ Kalam has pointed out the evolution of rockets - Tipu Sultan, the Brit Congreves and more. After moon landing all credit has been usurped. Only quite recently the media awakens to Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan, with the undercurrent of derision about other social aspects. You have to see the homeless scene in West/East coast cities of US, add others like Detroit, Chicago. Filth, urine, defacation on streets, all of it exists in the US. However you don't see the news rushing to cover these sordid tales in the US. I might add that some hinterland towns in UK are fast becoming like the US cities.

India's current condition is due to various factors and 1 principal factor has been the colonialization by the Brits. The Brits stole the entire retirement/pension fund of a nation and bankrolled their war follies with their kissing cousins the Germans. If this does not affect a nation, I don't know what other condition is so devastating. Even wars that decimate countries like Germany and Japan did not bankrupt them the way India was bankrupted by the Brits.

Despite these setbacks, India has managed to dig itself out and progress very quickly in the last 20-25yrs. It would take some time, but India has always been a uber civilizational nation, outshining most others in the world.
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