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Old May 19th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #41
cdc guy
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I'm hoping they tear down the jail. That would be another great place for a 400 ft or more tower.
Not until the Heliport closes. That's why there's no height southeast of the CCB.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #42
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Once the heliport is demolished that should allow for taller buildings to be built. The Downtown TIF was expanded to pay for the demolition of the jails, heliport, and processing centers. Along with the jails, the heliport site and parking lot is another great development site. The IPS Coke development is a good example for it but hopefully taller because it's closer to downtown.

http://www.courierpress.com/story/ne...-tif/91485806/

I was also thinking the Circle Center parking garages could be rebuilt or modified to include a tower(s). This Citylab article talks about malls in Asia called HOPSCA (Hotels, Office, Parking, Shopping, Convention Center, and Apartments)

https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/...design/526764/

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The Asian hyper-dense urban mall is also making an appearance in American cities. Miami has Brickell City Centre, a five-story mall in the heart of the city. Covering three city blocks, it’s topped by three high-rises (and was built by a Hong Kong developer). New York City is building a seven-story mall attached to two skyscrapers in Hudson Yards, America’s largest private development. The Santiago Calatrava-designed Oculus—the centerpiece of the World Trade Center—has a mall with over 100 stores, with its white-ribbed atrium attracting an army of tourists taking pictures with selfie-sticks. Since the hub connects office buildings with train and subway stations, the stores are also “irrigated” by the 50,000 commuters who pass by each weekday.

In short, the mall isn’t “dead”—it’s just changing.

The development model is so popular in China—a symptom of the country’s rapid rise of domestic consumerism—that developers even coined a term for it: “HOPSCA,” an abbreviation of Hotel, Offices, Parking, Shopping, Convention center and Apartments
Circle Center is like that with only the apartments component missing which would be relatively easy to add by utilizing and re-doing the parking garage sites including even the state parking garage site.

Brickell City Centre in Miami - "a city within a city"

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Old May 26th, 2017, 07:06 PM   #43
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Fantastic shot of Indy from the NYT:



36 Hours in Indianapolis

Wish they'd expand the skyline around the AUL Tower. Modern towers would look great there. A new hotel tower at Pan Am Plaza would also look great! It would even out the skyline from that angle.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 09:12 PM   #44
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A nice 400'+ tower would be perfect on the lot next to Buffalo Wild Wings on Washington Street. It would help fill in the gap between the CBD centered around Ohio Street down to the JW Marriott.
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Old June 25th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #45
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From the top of the Pacers practice facility.





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Old June 25th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #46
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It's a parking garage?
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Old June 25th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #47
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It's a parking garage?
It is next to the pacers garage.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 01:27 AM   #48
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Those practice facility pictures got me wondering. Could the current Pacers garage be torn down and a new Pacers garage be built to the east where there's a large parking lot currently and next to the heliport that's slated to be demolished?

Maybe a pipe dream but I think relocating the Pacers garage to the east would be a good idea as it would daylight Virginia Avenue and the radial street grid there and also maybe get flatiron towers in its place. I would think Bankers Life views and Cultural Trail access would be more lucrative to develop than the site east of it.

The current Pacers garage site is also south of the jail that'll be demolished too and another great site for a tower.



A clearer shot of Virginia that could be daylighted if the Pacers garage is moved to the east:


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Old June 27th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #49
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The current Pacers garage site is also south of the jail that'll be demolished too and another great site for a tower.
The reason people in Indy are not building more towers is because there is no real demand for them, not because the lack of proper sites.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #50
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The reason people in Indy are not building more towers is because there is no real demand for them, not because the lack of proper sites.
A bit of a blanket statement don't you think? There's demand for hotel towers like the rumored 800 room hotel and that midrise tower planned across from Bankers Life.

Also, let's wait how 360 does before you proclaim there's no demand for residential towers. By all indications including the residential vacancy rate, it's set to succeed. Commercial towers are a stretch I agree but you can't say there's no demand for towers in Indy.

Well anyways, I still think it's a good idea to relocate the Pacers garage to the parking lot east of it. I mentioned the jail site because there's going to be a lot of demolitions happening because of the Justice Center move including the heliport.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 04:24 PM   #51
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A bit of a blanket statement don't you think? There's demand for hotel towers like the rumored 800 room hotel and that midrise tower planned across from Bankers Life.

Also, let's wait how 360 does before you proclaim there's no demand for residential towers. By all indications including the residential vacancy rate, it's set to succeed. Commercial towers are a stretch I agree but you can't say there's no demand for towers in Indy.

Well anyways, I still think it's a good idea to relocate the Pacers garage to the parking lot east of it. I mentioned the jail site because there's going to be a lot of demolitions happening because of the Justice Center move including the heliport.
Maybe it was a bit of a blanket statement. My point is that we shouldn't be spending money to prepare good spots for towers. If there is demand for them then the people who build them will make room (and they don't have to try very hard considering all of the underutilized land in our downtown).

I also don't think that 360 is a great indicator of anything. It is a heavily subsidized project that has had it's fair share of issues.

Modern towers are just overrated IMO. Fill in the city with dense street oriented buildings and then consider building up. That is usually what economics dictates. Most of our skyscrapers are interstate eye candy that have poor street interaction.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #52
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Modern towers are just overrated IMO. Fill in the city with dense street oriented buildings and then consider building up. That is usually what economics dictates. Most of our skyscrapers are interstate eye candy that have poor street interaction.
This is the point I was trying to make with my post about Barcelona, a city of 3-7 story dense living that has fewer towers per capita than Indy.

Just look at the satellite view on Google maps. Not a lot of lawns or parking lots.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 08:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Paul1712 View Post
Maybe it was a bit of a blanket statement. My point is that we shouldn't be spending money to prepare good spots for towers. If there is demand for them then the people who build them will make room (and they don't have to try very hard considering all of the underutilized land in our downtown).

I also don't think that 360 is a great indicator of anything. It is a heavily subsidized project that has had it's fair share of issues.

Modern towers are just overrated IMO. Fill in the city with dense street oriented buildings and then consider building up. That is usually what economics dictates. Most of our skyscrapers are interstate eye candy that have poor street interaction.
The 5 story City Way and Axis were heavily subsidized too. If they count to the strength of the residential market downtown, then 360 should too while also signaling the demand for residential towers downtown if it's successful which I'm positive it will.

Keep in mind too, there was a taller proposal than the 360 proposed on the site if I recall. There's also the Riley Towers. I think there's definitely demand for residential towers downtown.

If towers like hotel towers or the possible WTC or another residential tower require some subsidies, that's a good thing as opposed to them not being proposed at all which isn't the case.
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Old July 1st, 2017, 05:16 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by indyurban View Post
The 5 story City Way and Axis were heavily subsidized too. If they count to the strength of the residential market downtown, then 360 should too while also signaling the demand for residential towers downtown if it's successful which I'm positive it will.

Keep in mind too, there was a taller proposal than the 360 proposed on the site if I recall. There's also the Riley Towers. I think there's definitely demand for residential towers downtown.

If towers like hotel towers or the possible WTC or another residential tower require some subsidies, that's a good thing as opposed to them not being proposed at all which isn't the case.
It's an overstatement to refer to 360 and Riley as evidence for demand for residential towers in IND. Riley was an urban renewal project, and as mentioned, 360 is heavily subsidized. I don't think there's much demand for high-rise downtown living in the Midwest outside of Chicago, and maybe MSP? People moving to Indy in general don't come for an urban lifestyle, they come for a very affordable and high quality suburban lifestyle that has a nice downtown attached.
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Old July 1st, 2017, 05:37 PM   #55
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Yeah, spending several million to tear down (not to mention the purchase price) of a highly profitable parking garage doesn't really make sense when we still have a wealth of parking lots downtown.

On the topic of Riley Towers, though, they're really not even worth mentioning. It was a trainwreck of a local redevelopment project that used enormous amount of social capital, and then took three decades to get all leased up. Source.
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Old July 1st, 2017, 05:55 PM   #56
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^ The city/Capital Improvement Board owns the Pacers garage if I recall correctly.

Riley Towers may have had problems in the past but it's fully leased now signalling a strong demand for the downtown residential market. We'll see how the 360 does but I think it will succeed and would show to developers there's demand for high rise living in contemporary Indy (that article you cited was from November 2007).
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Old July 6th, 2017, 01:35 PM   #57
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[QUOTE=indyurban;140961934]^ The city/Capital Improvement Board owns the Pacers garage if I recall correctly.

Riley Towers may have had problems in the past but it's fully leased now signalling a strong demand for the downtown residential market. We'll see how the 360 does but I think it will succeed and would show to developers there's demand for high rise living in contemporary Indy (that article you cited was from November 2007).[/QUOTES]


Since the project was subsidized it will be almost impossible to figure anything out from it. Of course there is demand for high rise living in a city like Indy. There is in EVERY major city and most minor ones. The key is how much and at what price. Building modern glass towers is expensive and the developer will need to make sure they can rent/sell the units for a proper $/SF to earn a return on their investment. Since the city forked over a large amount of money they have artificially changed that equation. All the way from money ROI to the chance of obtaining the needed financing.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #58
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Why fixate on 360's subsidies while other 5 story apartment projects have gotten as much or even more subsidies than the 360? Compare 360's 17.8 million in subsidies compared to I remember Axis getting $13 million to have that awful parking garage built to clear the way for its development (I don't even know its direct subsidies) or CityWay getting $98 million in direct loans. Personally, I prefer the 360 out of all those developments.

Subsidies happen and it's built Indy's strong apartment boom whether it's 5 story or towers and I hope the 360 succeeds so we can subsidize midrise or taller towers instead of subsidizing 5 story developments.

There's other benefits too like the city getting an ownership stake which have paid off in the Conrad for instance.
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Old July 7th, 2017, 10:09 PM   #59
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From RTV6's Facebook.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 01:08 AM   #60
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From RTV6's Facebook.

Could you imagine if that Artistry group of developments were 20+ stories each, how that would build out that skyline? Missed opportunities Indy, missed opportunities.
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