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LONDON - Tottenham Hotspur Stadium / New White Hart Lane (62,850)

26M views 91K replies 1K participants last post by  sonicyouth 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)

Tottenham Hotspur FC

2x League:
1951, 1961

8x Cup:
1901, 1921, 1961, 1962, 1967,
1981, 1982, 1991

4x League Cup:
1971, 1973, 1999, 2008

7x Supercup:
1921, 1951, 1961, 1962, 1967,
1981, 1991

1x UEFA Cup Winners' Cup:
1963

2x UEFA Europa League:
1972, 1984











 
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#3,841 ·
I've banged on about this before but..assuming everything is nearly ready to announce to the world that the NDP is good to go..would it be too much to expect some new renders of the stadium?

Taking into account the expected 'modest' capacity increase on the 56k and the fact there has only ever been the one interior render officially published, I think its only fair to expect a few more interior shots, hopefully showing seat colours/patterns, logos etc, to be published.
Maybe once the funding/sponsorship is all in place we'll get a big press release and a glut of new images to pore over.
I'd be very surprised if we didn't get new renders once the new plans are announced.

And we'll also surely, at some point, get some renders of what the interior spaces will be like - especially the corporate areas.
 
#3,843 ·
We keep talking about it as if will happen but there is no evidence that it will DEFINITELY happen. Wouldn't surprise me if they fail to increase or realise that they might not be able to.
All the ITK suggests that it will definitely happen.

It was first mentioned in a report by the Supporters Trust of one of their meetings with the club.

And Haringey planning documents - relating to the recent alterations to Spurs' plans for the northern and southern ends of the NDP - claim that there will be a further planning application from Spurs regarding material changes to the stadium itself.
 
#3,844 ·
What is the footprint of the stadium compared to the Emirates or San Siro?

Has the interior of the stadium already been designed (I know we have renders of the single stand and how steep the tiers are) or do we still have a bit of room to manoeuvre?

It's my belief that we should go for the highest capacity possible. I know the arguments against but most of them are short term and based on where we are now, not where we want to be in 5-10-15 years.
Agreed.

I suspect that the club had a rethink on stadium capacity after the introduction of the FFP rules. It will henceforward be more important than ever that Spurs maximizes every possible revenue stream.
 
#3,847 · (Edited)
I thought the planning application was listed under Major Developments on the Haringey website? Where the hell has it gone!

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/MajorContentiousDevelopmentservlet
Not sure why it's no longer listed in the major developments section but it is still available if searched for.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=252825

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=252805

The last couple of docs are new and confirm the granted planning permission.
 
#3,848 ·
Not sure why it's no longer listed in the major developments section but it is still available if searched for.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=252825

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=252805

The last couple of docs are new and confirm the granted planning permission.
Nice one, thanks. I used the number they have on the website and it took me to the 2010 application. That was a little outdated!
 
#3,849 ·
There is no promise of a capacity increase. It may or may not accompany whatever changes Spurs are thinking of making to the inside of the stadium. The FFP regs should not materially affect the calculations in this regard. Capacity can be too high for a given level of demand, thus lowering revenues. Spurs will, no doubt, be keeping a weather eye on all kinds of factors that might affect the supply and demand of seats, including our own success, the economic situation in general, the economic situation in football, the likely amount of money available to build the stadium, and so on.

Rumours of our nearing a financing deal are just that: rumours. It would not surprise me if nothing is announced for a number of months. Perhaps waiting to the end of the season is important. Maybe work will have to start on Sainsbury's. It's also been said that they'd like to complete the training ground and academy first: this should be complete by July/August (not so far away).
 
#3,851 ·
Please, no. Having a capacity that "just so happened" to be one single seat more than their stadium would make us look petty and small time.

Luckily the fact that the original plans were for around 58K and then dropped to 56K to accommodate the single tier stand shows me that Daniel Levy et al are more concerned with doing what's right for us, rather than engaging in a pointless willy waving contest with the team down the road.
 
#3,852 ·
''Please, no. Having a capacity that "just so happened" to be one single seat more than their stadium would make us look petty and small time.''

Agreed.

As a Spurs fan the only thing I want is a stadium better than the Emirates...which if all goes to plan, we will have. The eventual capacity doesnt bother me...I want to be closer to the pitch, have a higher rake of tier, a roof that doesnt slope towards the pitch, a 'home end', more rows in the upper tiers, navy blue seats full of Spurs fans!!:cheers:

But seriously the Emirates is a good stadium so if we can improve on that then all the better.
 
#3,853 ·
There is no promise of a capacity increase. It may or may not accompany whatever changes Spurs are thinking of making to the inside of the stadium. The FFP regs should not materially affect the calculations in this regard. Capacity can be too high for a given level of demand, thus lowering revenues. Spurs will, no doubt, be keeping a weather eye on all kinds of factors that might affect the supply and demand of seats, including our own success, the economic situation in general, the economic situation in football, the likely amount of money available to build the stadium, and so on.

Rumours of our nearing a financing deal are just that: rumours. It would not surprise me if nothing is announced for a number of months. Perhaps waiting to the end of the season is important. Maybe work will have to start on Sainsbury's. It's also been said that they'd like to complete the training ground and academy first: this should be complete by July/August (not so far away).
Indeed, there has been no promise of a capacity increase.

But I am confident that we have enough solid info to be sure that it is on the cards. It was first mentioned in a Supporters Trust report of one of their regular meetings with Daniel Levy, Donna Cullen et al. That's when we first heard the phrase, "modest increase". There was subsequently the occasional snippet from a reliable ITK (apparently, they do exist!) on stadium issues. Finally, we have the Haringey document which states that a further planning application from Spurs - regarding "material changes" to the stadium - will be forthcoming.

You're right to say that an increase in the proposed capacity would not necessarily translate into an increase in revenues. But I think that the FFP rules will still have caused something of a rethink from Spurs. The limited space on the site and the particular design of the stadium would mean that, once built, it is highly unlikely that capacity would ever be increased - even if it should become necessary. The costs would outweigh the benefit. So it's not hard to imagine why Spurs might now prefer to maximize the capacity, on a stadium with the same footprint, while we still can.

I don't think that anyone has suggested, at this stage, that the club is close to securing a naming rights deal. It would certainly help, though, if the team didn't seem so hell bent on throwing away Champions League qualification! Could make a big difference to the value of any deal.

As to the training ground, I would hope that it is completed by the end of June at the latest, since pre season training will start in early July.
 
#3,854 ·
Please, no. Having a capacity that "just so happened" to be one single seat more than their stadium would make us look petty and small time.

Luckily the fact that the original plans were for around 58K and then dropped to 56K to accommodate the single tier stand shows me that Daniel Levy et al are more concerned with doing what's right for us, rather than engaging in a pointless willy waving contest with the team down the road.
Agreed.

If we do go for a symbolic figure, I prefer 61K - a tribute to that great 1961 double winning team.
 
#3,855 ·
I'm fine with 56k but I don't mind if we increase to north of 60k.

I think our 56k will look better on television and give a better experience at the ground then the Emirates. If any increase or interior design change is to take place I'd like to see the single tier capacity increased someway, I know there are limits but I'm sure we can get creative to enhance the effect of the wall of fans.
 
#3,856 ·
presumably the main constraints on capacity are:
1) physical size of the site
2) finance
3) demand
4) planning/transport etc

1) We can't do anything about the size of the site, but we can tinker with design within the space available and get maybe +10%
2) A large proportion of the costs will be fairly fixed, so now is the time to increase, rather than make expensive alterations after stadium is built. Obviously any design changes will incur costs, but better to do a thorough job now, rather than bodge it.
3) Demand clearly exists, and if it were to drop in the future because of economic climate, team performance etc., the demand could be managed to an extent with pricing, although this would have effects on revenues
4) I get the impression that at 56-58k we were at the limit of what the authorities would allow, because of transport infrastructure etc. I think this is the constraint that the club has been negotiating on to ease behind the scenes, as a result of the changed "political" situation. This could be quite difficult, and there is no point in putting in a revised planning application until the club is very confident that it will get approval
 
#3,857 ·
presumably the main constraints on capacity are:
1) physical size of the site
2) finance
3) demand
4) planning/transport etc

1) We can't do anything about the size of the site, but we can tinker with design within the space available and get maybe +10%
2) A large proportion of the costs will be fairly fixed, so now is the time to increase, rather than make expensive alterations after stadium is built. Obviously any design changes will incur costs, but better to do a thorough job now, rather than bodge it.
3) Demand clearly exists, and if it were to drop in the future because of economic climate, team performance etc., the demand could be managed to an extent with pricing, although this would have effects on revenues
4) I get the impression that at 56-58k we were at the limit of what the authorities would allow, because of transport infrastructure etc. I think this is the constraint that the club has been negotiating on to ease behind the scenes, as a result of the changed "political" situation. This could be quite difficult, and there is no point in putting in a revised planning application until the club is very confident that it will get approval
I don't think that the transport issue was ever as much of a problem as many believed it to be. Certainly, I don't believe that the difference between 56K and, say, 61K is or was a deal breaker.
 
#3,858 ·
obviously i prefer if we go up in capacity but as long as it looks good inside, generates an atmosphere and gives bundles of extra cash to buy that 30 goal striker we need to actually compete for the title than thats all that matters.

i have a few ideas they might be rubbish but here goes

1. instead of sitting in block 1A or 32C etc would it not be a better idea to say sit in Block Jimmy Greaves, Jurgen, Klinsmann, Dave Mackay etc the club could do a poll to find like the best 250 spurs legends or something?

2. what are peoples thoughts about the trophy thing around the emirates with the pictures of the cup and year won, you for or against it at our ground? could look good but will probs look like we are copying arsenal, surely better to build a new history in a new stadium

3. and third point would it not be wise of the club to build the single tier stand like the germans build there stadiums ie able to convert standing to seating just because you cant satnd in football at the moment doesnt mean in 10,20, 30 years that might not change in England again.

our kop stand will hold about 9 thousand people so if you had 2 standing for every seat that would be 18k people not bad, would be a hell of an atmosphere
 
#3,859 ·
obviously i prefer if we go up in capacity but as long as it looks good inside, generates an atmosphere and gives bundles of extra cash to buy that 30 goal striker we need to actually compete for the title than thats all that matters.

i have a few ideas they might be rubbish but here goes

1. instead of sitting in block 1A or 32C etc would it not be a better idea to say sit in Block Jimmy Greaves, Jurgen, Klinsmann, Dave Mackay etc the club could do a poll to find like the best 250 spurs legends or something?
I like this post, Harry.

Yes, definitely, I much prefer the 'qualitative' to the anonymous, abstract and empty 'quantitative' of numbers. Give a sense of place. I suspect there'll be some boring, 'rational' stadium-management answer to your brilliant idea.

2. what are peoples thoughts about the trophy thing around the emirates with the pictures of the cup and year won, you for or against it at our ground? could look good but will probs look like we are copying arsenal, surely better to build a new history in a new stadium
No, no, no. Not just because we'd be copying them down the road but because they introduced this idea to try and get some atmosphere in the Emirates.

Unlike those plastic people down the road, we 'know our history'. And we won't have a problem with atmosphere.

3. and third point would it not be wise of the club to build the single tier stand like the germans build there stadiums ie able to convert standing to seating just because you cant satnd in football at the moment doesnt mean in 10,20, 30 years that might not change in England again.

our kop stand will hold about 9 thousand people so if you had 2 standing for every seat that would be 18k people not bad, would be a hell of an atmosphere
We'll have a single tier stand but your point is to make provision for standing areas in the same way as certain German stadia. I think this is an excellent idea. Sooner or later our mad-health-and-safety English animus against standing areas will, I hope, melt away. It does mean that for non-CL matches (UEFA insist on seating) we would have an increased capacity and, though we would charge lower prices for standing areas, this would make for more revenue. So a good idea.

We should look to the future. It also means attracting a broader base of fans, and standing areas will make for more singing (as all good choir masters know).

The issue here is another aspect of H&S: the increased capacity would mean we'd have to ensure that exit pathways were adjusted. A standing area would probably mean (hopefully minimally) redesigned exits, concourses, etc. I'd vote that a redesign of the current stadium interior takes this possibility into account.

Imagine a Spurs stadium nimble enough to allow standing areas before all the others.
 
#3,860 ·
1. instead of sitting in block 1A or 32C etc would it not be a better idea to say sit in Block Jimmy Greaves, Jurgen, Klinsmann, Dave Mackay etc the club could do a poll to find like the best 250 spurs legends or something?
Yes, definitely, I much prefer the 'qualitative' to the anonymous, abstract and empty 'quantitative' of numbers. Give a sense of place. I suspect there'll be some boring, 'rational' stadium-management answer to your brilliant idea.
You could have both and satisfy the rational stadium managers and the fans. On the tickets, computer systems, etc., a block can be referred to by a boring old number, but just above the all the entrances to each block you could have plaques reading "The Jimmy Greaves Block" or whoever.
 
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