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Old November 13th, 2017, 01:07 AM   #16701
db84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
BTW do you say Norynberga or Nürnberg in Poland?
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Originally Posted by SRC_100 View Post
Norymberga
We also say imbus, not inbus, for Innensechskantschluessel, because for a Polish language user it is easier to pronounce -mb- rather than -nb-.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 02:36 AM   #16702
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Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
Why use English as Brexitiers clearly proved where they have Europe in mind.
Yes, indeed - that Europe doesn't end at the Ukrainian, Bosnian, Swiss, Norwegian, Andorran, etc borders, and that what's beyond the EU's borders - and even Europe's - is not something we should instantaneously reject as other and different and not for us.

When you have to spend 40 years trying to convince the gang that forced you to loosen ties with your old buddies to improve their ties with those old buddies who are their friends too and still fall far short of what you wanted, then you learn to despise the toxic, petty and nationalistic attitude of the 'Little Europeans' that reject anything that isn't in the gang*. Not liking the gang's rules or its toxicity and thus wanting out doesn't mean you don't like the gang members, nor are rejecting them - it's that you want out of the gang and not that you don't want to be friends.

As for why use English? Well it's the most spoken language in the EU (mostly as a additional language), it's neutral wrt big countries (sorry Ireland, Malta and Cyprus) who want their language as the official one, it's what people use de facto as a linga fraca - including here in this thread. Plus - while it might not be of concern to you - it's a global language spoken across the planet.

Though, frankly, the Brexiteers would almost certainly all prefer you use whatever language you want to describe foreign cities on your road signs. If you want to be nice and call it what it's called there, then fine. If you have your own name then fine. If you want to put both then fine.

*other than when they conflate the 22 sovereign states / 230 million people in Europe outside the EU with being in their gang so that they can pretend that their gang is Europe and thus the only way to be European.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 03:09 AM   #16703
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@Richard_P I dont think latin transcriptions of cyrylic words are stupid at all. I come from western Poland and do not know anyone there who speaks Russian regardless of their age. My grandparents were forcefully taught Russian so they have bad associations with this language which is now used by the ruling party's train of thought "We are in Poland, we have to speak Polish". I might not fully agree with the aforementioned slogan but I reassure you that for 90% of Polish cyrylic alphabet is not much different than Chinese one they simply don't understand it.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 05:08 AM   #16704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db84 View Post
We also say imbus, not inbus, for Innensechskantschluessel, because for a Polish language user it is easier to pronounce -mb- rather than -nb-.
That's because /m/ and /b/ are labial consonants, and /n -> m/ before /p b/ is a natural progression seen in many languages. For instance, German Nürnberg becomes English Nuremberg, and the Latin construction "in- proper" becomes improper. Very very common.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 02:13 PM   #16705
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@Richard_P I dont think latin transcriptions of cyrylic words are stupid at all.
...
but I reassure you that for 90% of Polish cyrylic alphabet is not much different than Chinese one they simply don't understand it.
So they will clearly understand "Lwów (Львів)" on road signage and don't need to be distracted by extended "Lwów (Львів Lviv)" version. Secondly when travelling to country which uses Cyrillic alphabet it would be high degree of ignorance expecting that You will find there transcriptions everywhere so You either way need to learn the basics to not get lost. Yesterday I have researched road signs in all countries which share border with countries using Cyrillic alphabet and guess what - none of them is providing Cyrillic names on their signs and additionally none of them is using English transcriptions. In most cases name of border crossing village is indicated on signs and it is good if additional oval with outside country letters indicates that important point. Interesting case is in Latvia where large Russian community is present and where bilingual names are used on road signs yet Russian only as transcript into Latin alphabet. So I really don't see why Poland is stepping so far in front providing so much unnecessarily and confusing data. Lead to border through oval eventually add biggest city in following country and this is only thing which foreign transit driver needs
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Old November 13th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #16706
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
For instance, German Nürnberg becomes English Nuremberg
Nürnberg is the capital of Franconia. In Franconian, it's Närmberch!
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Old November 14th, 2017, 02:20 AM   #16707
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Augsburg -> Augschburg in Schwaben
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:47 PM   #16708
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It's interesting that they use cable barriers on S8. I'm not aware of any other country using them on high-volume motorways. They are typically installed in rural areas to reduce cost and a number of countries don't use them at all.
I remember cable-barriers on D5-section between Prague and Pilsen in Czech Republik but new D8 does not have any cable-barriers.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:57 PM   #16709
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http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/53.5931/20.1558

I think that someone has been over-eager on OSM as S7 Rychnowo - Olstzynek has not formally opened to traffic yet

When you zoom in the road is shown in pink (meaning it is open and in use) yet zoom out and it is not
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Old November 15th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #16710
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I wondered about the same thing thinking that these cables can't stop a fully loaded semi barreling down at 100 km/hour from crossing the median onto oncoming traffic. These cables look very flimsy. I think it's another copy of Scandinavian way of doing things - first the Norwegian gantries and now Swedish cables. They should have put up concrete blocks instead.
You probably mean continuously poured concrete barrier. The "blocks" can be quite easily shifted.
Even the concrete barrier doesn't guarantee stopping a fully loaded truck from crossing. It all depends on the angle of the impact. If it is "shallow" then the truck can be deflected back to the same carriageway. At higher angles trucks can go through.

The wire barriers work on different principle. They should catch and more gradually slow down cars (and trucks) from crossing by absorbing the kinetic energy of the impact. That's why they make more sense together with the wide median where vehicles can slow down after impact.

But in general you are right, the concrete barriesr seem to be safer and more widely used on busier corridors around the world.

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Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
But do those western nations give a ship to guide eastern travellers or you need to use their language? Why use English as Brexitiers clearly proved where they have Europe in mind. Is it so hard to follow A4 route to border with signs Lwów (Львів) instead of Lviv? To most EU nations English transliterations from cyrilic are the same dumb as Polish so why to use English one or why to use it at all?
Come on, don't mix the Brexit bullshit into the road signage subject

Whether we like it or not English is by far the most widely spoken second language in Europe, and it will probably stay that way. I don't see problem with using it to sign some important international destinations.

To be honest I don't think it is desperately needed either but since someone decided to use it what is the problem?
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Old November 15th, 2017, 05:18 PM   #16711
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Whether we like it or not English is by far the most widely spoken second language in Europe, and it will probably stay that way. I don't see problem with using it to sign some important international destinations.
To be honest I don't think it is desperately needed either but since someone decided to use it what is the problem?
But no one decided to use it (or in general use English version), only decided to regulate how foreign cities should be posted as at present there are either Polish, native or some kind of hybrid versions used. Finally someone decided that it will be done by Polish version followed by native one to country of origin. Only thing that is unclear is whether to provide Latin transcription of Cyrillic names and what transcription will be used - Polish or though ignorance English and why transcription not transliteration. Either way both will be useless waste of precious space on signs as Latin version of Polish name will be present before Cyrillic one
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Old November 18th, 2017, 04:39 PM   #16712
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DK82 Lublin

Newly reconstructed junction in Lublin: Solidarności Avenue carries DK82 nowadays, but it used to be an arterial road prior to the opening of the city's bypass in 2014. Its importance for local traffic is unchallenged, though.













The credit for this beautiful piece of night photography goes to https://www.facebook.com/Lublin.zdje....architektury/ .
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Old Today, 11:17 AM   #16713
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Design & build contracts have been signed for:

S17 bypass of Tomaszów Lubelski (a town near the border with UA) - 9.6 km of 1x2 expressway with space reservation for 2nd carriageway (for now, 2x2 will be built at junctions) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/50.4458/23.4277

S17 Warsaw-Zakręt - Warsaw-Lubelska (a part of Warsaw ringroad) - 2.5 km of 2x3 motorway http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.2133/21.2571
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