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Old March 4th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #1321
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For you to come on here and just state ridiculous things such as it should be brownfield first shows a complete lack of understanding of the process, the demands and how national policy is shaped to enable the lives we live. And the issues which such suggestions create.

Lines like "I cannot see the argument for building houses here yet. Build on Inknield Port etc." make no sense when Inknield Port is a residential, leisure mixed use site which is accommodating housing need and is clearly a complex site due to the time it has taken for development to come forward.

Are we suppose to wait another 10 years for the site to come forward, whilst people continue to need housing just so Sutton can stay green for a little longer? We need sites that can be built on now and that is unfortunately those which are virgin greenland. Brownfield land will get built on too it just takes longer because of the system we have.

Also if there was enough brownfield land, im at 100% certain that no greenbelt sites would have been allocated.
Some questions for you. Firstly, do you think for one moment that apart from the token 50% shared ownership house any of the houses built will not carry a premium for its location and therefore will not provide the desperately needed affordable quality starter homes?

Secondly, We will always be in this situation of houses needed and not enough ready to build upon land so once this precedent has been set what is stopping BCC just selling all of its owned green belt in places like the Lickeys because we CBA to 'wait 10 years' for developers to be interested in large, vacant flattened sites that could take 3000 homes?

Thirdly, can you not see that by giving developers the option of building on greenbelt they will never be interested in building on these large, vacant flattened sites that could take 3000 homes?

Forthly, I read a projected start is 2018. If the services are to be put in place how quickly do you think it takes to set up a new school for example? (Clue - its at least 2 years). If they have not even been mentioned, what is the chance they would be ready for when the estate is occupied?

Fifthly, Can you not see how political this is? BBC is the land owner for goodness sake and will make a vast amount of money out of this! So far this year we have had our Library removed and 24 / 7 parking charges for our park. Its like BCC are trying to antagonize Sutton's residents. Could this have everything to do with Sutton's referendum?
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Old March 4th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #1322
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True. It almost feels like an article of faith for policy makers, based on sentimentality rather than a sensible approach to urban sustainability and development.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #1323
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Quote:
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Some questions for you. Firstly, do you think for one moment that apart from the token 50% shared ownership house any of the houses built will not carry a premium for its location and therefore will not provide the desperately needed affordable quality starter homes?

Secondly, We will always be in this situation of houses needed and not enough ready to build upon land so once this precedent has been set what is stopping BCC just selling all of its owned green belt in places like the Lickeys because we CBA to 'wait 10 years' for developers to be interested in large, vacant flattened sites that could take 3000 homes?

Thirdly, can you not see that by giving developers the option of building on greenbelt they will never be interested in building on these large, vacant flattened sites that could take 3000 homes?

Forthly, I read a projected start is 2018. If the services are to be put in place how quickly do you think it takes to set up a new school for example? (Clue - its at least 2 years). If they have not even been mentioned, what is the chance they would be ready for when the estate is occupied?

Fifthly, Can you not see how political this is? BBC is the land owner for goodness sake and will make a vast amount of money out of this! So far this year we have had our Library removed and 24 / 7 parking charges for our park. Its like BCC are trying to antagonize Sutton's residents. Could this have everything to do with Sutton's referendum?
I don't think you are looking at this objectively.

I acknowledge that these things are caused by the system we have. Affordable housing (as defined) will be provided here... I'm by no means saying the definition of affordable housing is sufficient to allow people on low incomes to access it but it is the system we have and some affordable housing, even if it is 50% shared ownership is better than none. However, more houses helps those who are in less suitable and cheaper accommodation move if they have the means, opening up potentially affordable housing in wider market perhaps. Again though, this is a system designed to be this way. Where this is a brownfield site in Edgbaston the affordable outcome is likely to be the same. Housing need is a wider question and not about affordability entirely anyway.

Your second point is true and at some point Birmingham will have to sell that land too i suspect. As i said, in the above post however, the function that it's performing is more important when assessed by against the criteria of the green belt, the benefits and costs of housing, so it stays for now and Sutton goes (or at least that is the conclusions the council came to and the Government agreed). That is the early stage of managed development of the green belt. You keep the best performing and develop the worst. At some point near 2031, the area around the Licky's will be worst performing an will be developed and Sutton will stay. That is just how national policy frames it.

Your third point. You i can but you assume that one developer in Sutton green belt will be the same developer building a brownfield site in Handsworth and that is unrealistic. In most cases developers want to make the most money they can from any site they have an interest in. It is arguable to suggest that by virtue of it being a clean site, they will make more money from greenbelt as they have infrastructure to build which they don't on brownfield sites. It is true to say development is quicker as you do not have the contamination or demolition costs and time lost etc. Having said that green belt may need regrading and the infrastructure etc is needed so that possibly balances out depending on the site.

I don't think it would start in 2018 but there is a possibility. Any planning consent should deal with the services required but again they need to be proposed by the developer. If you are building 50 homes in the first phase (as a coincidence, this is close to the rate of dwellings house builders are building per year) you probably won't propose a school as there won't be enough children to fill it for another 3 or 4 developments of 50 dwellings. The infrastructure will come as the pressure from the development comes. A road with no capacity will experience its upgrade right away.

You have a town council now, they could take over the park and its charges if they like. I also thought the library was saved. Nonetheless, i see how political it is. But this is a minor concern as any other green belt site that came forward was assessed and discounted. The Inspector agreed with this assessment and so did the Government and saw no reason to swap or include other sites outside of the control of the Council.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #1324
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I would tend to agree. Whilst there is worth in keeping greenbelt where there is a proven need for it to remain, such as around Coventry to stop it merging into Solihull for example (a pressure that is not on Sutton except for the part between Tamworth). The majority of it around Birmingham isn't particularly good to look at, has a motorway running through it and is intensively farmed so there isn't any nature potential either. It should of course be managed with services required. You may not eradicate long commutes due to the nature of working patterns in the UK but u may stop someone driving daily to Tesco for a top up shop and instead using a local store.
I think you mean the space between Sutton and Fazeley Town, not Tamworth! Mile Oak is officially in Fazeley Town. As for the space between Solihull and Coventry, it's only a matter of time methinks...

Seriously though as has already been said thanks for the detailed explanation before.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #1325
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I think you mean the space between Sutton and Fazeley Town, not Tamworth! Mile Oak is officially in Fazeley Town. As for the space between Solihull and Coventry, it's only a matter of time methinks...

Seriously though as has already been said thanks for the detailed explanation before.
You are right, i wasn't just being general. I suspect the area around Coventry and Solihull will be developed eventually but i think it will be a long time and Balsall Common and Meridian will be protected from encroachment for many many decades to come.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 04:27 PM   #1326
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You are right, i wasn't just being general. I suspect the area around Coventry and Solihull will be developed eventually but i think it will be a long time and Balsall Common and Meridian will be protected from encroachment for many many decades to come.
It would be interesting to see a map of the area in 100 years time...If we haven't nuked ourselves or killed ourselves via Global Warming etc.

Should have explained when I say eventually, I don't mean in the next 50 years.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #1327
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Thanks for the detailed reply. I would actually prefer a system of market towns with enough countryside in between them to make them feel separate and proper infrastructure so they don't impact on existing settlements.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 09:21 PM   #1328
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Looks like fleet street kitchen mere green has closed down.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:11 AM   #1329
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Looks like fleet street kitchen mere green has closed down.
Not surprised. It was always empty and operated food only. If they opened for drinks it would've last a bit longer. I doubt any bar/restaurant will succeed here
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:25 AM   #1330
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Flints was there for years, but I do agree that it is a rather difficult spot for a bar/restaurant.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:30 AM   #1331
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I was turned away when I wanted a drink. They couldn't afford to turn my business away. After that I adopted the ****'em attitude.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #1332
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I really think Waitrose should take the opportunity and try to expand into the space. Or build a new store on the existing car park, and then demolish all the buildings along the front for a new car park.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 01:00 AM   #1333
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Aldi Mere Green?

My wife tells me shes heard Aldi are going to take the old TRW site for a new store. She didn't tell me her source but shes had some other details before me, playground chats
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Old April 17th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #1334
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That'd be ideal, but I do wonder what traffic measures are going to be taken in the area. Aldi is ideal for me as it's a 10 min walk.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 09:07 PM   #1335
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My wife tells me shes heard Aldi are going to take the old TRW site for a new store. She didn't tell me her source but shes had some other details before me, playground chats

Shame, I thought it was earmarked for an hotel, not many in Sutton Coldfield and none I can think of in Mere Green.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 10:26 AM   #1336
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Shame, I thought it was earmarked for an hotel, not many in Sutton Coldfield and none I can think of in Mere Green.
If you can reference any local plan or otherwise which 'earmarks' this land for hotel use please do so.

The lack of previous activity on the site suggests it's unattractive to most, including hoteliers.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #1337
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Heard anything about the DP/Burton unit? A few months ago I found a planning application for it that was in Primark's fonts and styling, and there was some rumours around that Primark had eyes on Sutton Coldfield. Since then of course BHS have gone, which would be a better unit.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #1338
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Heard anything about the DP/Burton unit? A few months ago I found a planning application for it that was in Primark's fonts and styling, and there was some rumours around that Primark had eyes on Sutton Coldfield. Since then of course BHS have gone, which would be a better unit.
I read it was going to be a coffee shop.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #1339
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My wife tells me shes heard Aldi are going to take the old TRW site for a new store. She didn't tell me her source but shes had some other details before me, playground chats
Can't find a relevant planning application on BCC Planning.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #1340
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I don`t think a planning application has gone in. I think it`s just rumour at the moment.
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