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Old November 2nd, 2005, 02:55 AM   #1
bubach_hlubach
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ZAGREB - construction update X


Zagreb Construction Projects


- Office Buildings -

EuroTower 1 – 26 levels – Nearing Completion
EuroTower 2 – 13 levels – In preparation
Zagreb Tower – 22 levels + 8 levels – U/C
Almeria Tower – 15 levels + 8 levels – U/C
Hypo Centre – 11 levels (4 building complex) – Nearing Completion
Business Centre International – 13 levels + Hotel & Retail – U/C
Centar Projekt – 11 levels – U/C
VMD Centre – 9 levels – Completed
SPAZ Office Bldg – 9 levels – U/C
Grand Centre – 9 levels – U/C
Business Centre 2000 – 9 levels (4 building complex) – U/C
Boston Global Centre – 6 levels – Completed
Emporion Centre – 6 levels – U/C
Knežija Office Building – 11 levels – U/C
InGrad Complex – 6 levels – U/C
Savska 3 – 4 levels – U/C
Vukovarska 296a – 9 levels – In preparation
Erste Bank Tower – 26 levels – On hold
Raiffesen Bank Tower – 15 levels – Proposed
Bank of Zagreb Tower – 30 levels – Proposed
Jadran Site – Office Tower Complex – Proposed
Siemens Site – 9 level Tower – Proposed
Zagrebčanka Site – 100,000sqm site – Multi tower proposals
Radnička – Hektorovićeva – Supilova – Bunićeva – Multi building complex – Proposed
HOTO Tower – 16 levels – Completed
VMD Promet – 9 levels – Completed
Croatia Osiguranje – 7 levels – Completed
Eurocentre – 6 levels – Completed
Europapress – 6 levels – Completed
Pliva Institute – 6 levels – Completed
Neboder (Ilica 1) – 17 levels – Reconstruction / Rennovation
Parmolin Site – 19C industrial conversion – TBA
Buzin Commercial Centre – New secondary Zagreb CBD - Proposed
Alkom Office Bldg - 7 levels - U/C
Cimos Office Bldg - 8 levels - Construction halted.
Volksbank Office Bldg - 6 levels - Completed
Gredelj Site - Industrial conversion of site for new commercial zone - TBA
Old Zagreb Stadium - Re-use of site to allow construction of 2 new skyscraper office towers and a bunch of low rise office complexes. Located in Kranjčevićeva Street, this site is very close to Cibona office tower - In Planning.
Veliko Polje - New commercial zone which is adjacent to Buzin in southern Zagreb near Airport. This is an expansion of popular Buzin trade zone which will include a further 260,000sqms of floor space in various new buildings - In Planning.
Croatian Bishops Council - New administrative centre of Catholic church in Croatia - In Planning.


- Housing Estates & Apartment complexes -

Hotoville – Largest private residential (inc shopping centre) – Completed
Vrbani 3 (POS) – Multi building apartment project – U/C
Špansko (POS) – 30 building apartment project – U/C
Hypo Apartments – 4 building complex – U/C
Njivice – 17 hectare site south of Vukovarska street to be transformed into new residential area by Geoprojekt – Proposed
Sesvete (POS)– New housing complex on former brickworks (inc 60,000 sqm shopping centre) – In planning
Branimirova – Multi building complex – In preparation.
Folnegovićeva naselja – New multi level apartment complexes up to 10 levels tall – Proposed
Bednjanska street – 9 level apartment complexes – U/C
Ilica 191 - New 7 level apartment / commercial complex - U/C
Sesvete (POS) II - Expansion of housing estate to consist of medium to high density housing - In Planning.
VMD Apartment Complex - 6 level multi building complex - U/C
Oranice (POS) - New housing estate for up to 33,000 new residents. Adjacent to Vrbani. Medium to High density multi level apartment bldgs (9 level limits) - In Planning.

- Shopping Complexes -

GTC Retail and Business Complex – 32,000sqm multi-level shopping complex with multi level office tower (8000sqm) – U/C
Zagreb Shopping City – 700,000 sqm complex includes retail, offices and entertainment zone all-in-one – U/C
Zagreb Fair – Huge shopping and entertainment complex next to Zagreb Exhibition Complex – In Planning
Billa Centre – In planning
Marićev Prolaz - Extension of retail arcade running parallel with Ban Jelačić in direction of main square - In Planning
Hoto (Shopping) Center - 50,000 sm - Completed
City Center Zagreb - New 45,000 sqm shopping complex over 2 levels - U/C
Peek & Cloppenburg Department Store - German retain chain expanding into Zagreb and other Croatian cities - Zagreb store in planning.

- Public buildings -

Zagreb Congress Centre – In planning
Zagreb Airport Passenger Terminal – In planning
Rebro Hospital – Expansion – U/C
University Hospital – U/C
Mimara Underground parking complex – In planning
Tuškanac Underground parking complex (5 levels) – In planning
Josip Lang Square Underground parking complex - Completed
Kvaternik's square redevelopment – In preparation
Emergency Control Centre – 6 levels – In preparation
Biotechnological Research Institute - a few levels - U/C
Justice Square - New legal district for Zagreb – U/C
Trešnjevska Square – redevelopment – In planning

- Hotel / Recreational Complexes -

Hotel Antunovic – 9 levels – U/C
Aqua City – Thermal Spa and Aquatic Centre – In planning
Hotel International - U/C
Terme Zagreb - In preparation
Bundek Lakes - Upgrade of existing park to include new leisure facilities - U/C
Sljeme Cable Car - Expansion with new gondolas - In Planning

- Sports complexes -

Maksimir Stadium – U/C
Svetice Olympic Pool – In preparation
Utrina Swimming Complex – Completed
Handball Complex Svetice – In preparation
Handball Complex Špansko – U/C
Sports & Recreation Complex Sesvete – In planning
Sports & Recreation Complex ‘Chromos Savica’ - new facilites that include a new highrise hotel – In planning

- Infrastructure -

Domovinski Bridge – U/C
Jankomirski Bridge – U/C
Junction Slavonska/Heinzelova – Completed
Čulinec Station upgrade - completed
Šarengradska Project – New roadway from Jadranski Bridge to Cibona Tower – In preparation
Nova Branimirova – Road expansion / extension – Phase 1 completed, Phase 2 in preparation.
Gajnice Station upgrade - completed
Zapadni Kolodvor (Zagreb West Sation) upgrade - Under way
Zagreb Metro – In Planning
Zagreb Suburban Rail Expansion - New stations, new lines, new trains with elevated and underground lines - In Planning
New Sava Bridge - Spanning Sava River to connect Vatikanska & Vrapčanska roads on either sides of the river - In Planning with possible 2006 start.
Medvednice Tunnel - new northern motorway that passes beneath Medvednice mountains behind Zagreb - In Planning.
Sveučilišne Aleje - widening of important cross road (runs beside new EuroTowers) - U/C
Zagreb na Savi - Huge Sava River re-development to regulate river flow and hence allow new residential and commercial development right up on the riverfront on both banks. A new exciting project that will change the look of Zagreb for ever - In Planning

- Religious -

Zagreb’s Great Synagogue & Jewish Museum – In planning (2006 start)

- Museums and Arts complexes -

Museum of Contemporary Arts (MCA) – U/C
Zagreb Academy of Music – In preparation
Zagreb Modern Opera – In planning
Zagreb Museum of Architecture - In planning
Zagreb Gallery of Naive Arts - In preparation
Zagreb Musuem of Natural History - In planning
Zagreb Musuem of Sport - In planning
Badel Exhibition Centre - In planning
Zagreb Centre for Dance - U/C
Zagreb Histrionics Centre - U/C
New Musuem of Croatian History - In Planning
Museum - War Memorial of Independence War - In Planning

* If you happen to find an unlisted project that is worth an attention and discussions, feel free to pm me or post projects in this thread, and I will add them to the list above. Thanks.

--------------------------------------------

Links to previous Zagreb construction updates :

Zagreb update I
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=76954

Zagreb update II
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=157460

Zagreb update III
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=166664

Zagreb update IV
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=181043

Zagreb update V
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=196531

Zagreb update VI
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=210559

Zagreb update VII
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=229177

Zagreb update VIII
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=242144

Zagreb update IX
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=265163



Everybody is welcome to contribute and participate in this thread - so enjoy yourself, dear folks

love,

bubach,

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Last edited by bubach_hlubach; November 3rd, 2005 at 07:58 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 03:11 AM   #2
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ZDRAVSTVO Umjesto centralizacije uvodi se zajednički dojavni centar za sve regije, a Zagreb će graditi najmoderniju ustanovu sa stotinjak bolničkih kreveta
Nova Hitna u Zagrebu za 50 milijuna eura
Autor TEA ROMIĆ

Ustanova za Hitnu medicinsku pomoć ipak će se iz Đorđićeve preseliti u novu zgradu u Heinzelovoj bez obzira na najave ministra zdravstva Nevena Ljubičića iz kolovoza ove godine. Naime, ministar je izjavio da će se regionalne ustanove Hitne pomoći centralizirati i staviti pod kontrolu države, no Ante Golem, državni tajnik iz Ljubičićeva ministarstva, kaže da je ministar pogrešno shvaćen.
Neće biti centralizacije, nego ćemo osnovati zajednički dojavni centar. Hitna pomoć sada je organizirana po županijama pa kvaliteta usluge varira objasnio je Golem namjere Ministarstva zdravstva te dodao da nema prepreke za gradnju zgrade Hitne pomoći u Heinzelovoj.

Projekti uskoro gotovi
Pročelnik Gradskog ureda za zdravstvo Zvonimir Šostar kaže da će projekti uskoro biti gotovi te da je već dobivena lokacijska dozvola za gradnju nove i najmodernije Hitne u Hrvatskoj.
Čim završimo projekte, podnijet ćemo zahtjev za građevnu dozvolu koju bismo trebali dobiti do kraja godine objasnio je dr. Šostar i dodao da grad planira u novu Hitnu, sa 350 do 400 zaposlenih, uložiti oko 50 milijuna kuna.
Moderna građevina prostirat će se na osam tisuća četvornih metara podijeljenih na pet etaža. U njoj će biti prijavno-dojavne službe, centar za urgentna stanja, ambulante, laboratoriji, terenska i tehnička služba, stacionar sa stotinjak kreveta, garažni prostor i radionice za popravak 120 sanitetskih i 50 osobnih vozila. Sve će prostorije biti opremljene novom medicinskom i kompjutorskom opremom. Novost je centralna jedinica za triježnjenje jer su se dosad pijanci odvozili na bolničke psihijatrijske odjele.
Ravnateljica zagrebačke Hitne dr. Vlasta Jasprica-Hrelec smatra da je nova lokacija, uz Heinzelovu, Vukovarsku i Radničku, odlična jer će Hitna tako biti povezana sa svim dijelovima grada.

Vozači najzadovoljniji
S ravnateljicom se posebno slažu vozači koji su dosad imali dosta problema u gradskom prometu.
Potrebno je osigurati nesmetan prolaz, ali i da građani ipak znaju gdje smo smješteni kaže vozač Hitne pomoći Mirko Drvar čije riječi potvrđuje i voditelj operativne smjene dr. Željko Skukan.
Nova lokacija djeluje zgodno, s obzirom na okolne prometnice. No, podstanice ipak moraju ostati da bismo bili dostupniji građanima zaključio je dr. Skukan.
Tehničar Natko Kulenović nada se da će nova zgrada riješiti i sadašnji problem parkiranja jer osoblje nema gdje ostaviti automobile, pa se nerijetko dogodi da ih pauk odveze.

_______________
Is that the real rendering or something made just for newspapers. It looks kinda unfinished??
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 03:15 AM   #3
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OTKRIVAMO Grad Zagreb i Vlada financiraju gradnju židovskoga kulturnog centra
Zagreb opet dobiva sinagogu u Praškoj
Autor VOJISLAV MAZZOCCO
Parkiralište na mjestu nekadašnje sinagoge

Grad Zagreb i Vlada Republike Hrvatske zajedno će financirati gradnju židovskog kulturnog centra na mjestu bivše sinagoge u Praškoj ulici. Zaključeno je to na sastanku na kojem su bili ministrica graditeljstva Marina Matulović-Dropulić, gradonačelnik Milan Bandić i njegov urbanist Slavko Dakić te predsjednik Židovske općine Zagreb Ognjen Kraus, u pratnji Jakova Bienenfelda. Na sastanku je, među ostalim, dogovoreno da će u ŽOZ-u za nekoliko dana izraditi idejno rješenje budućih sadržaja centra. Kako navode izvori bliski Židovskoj zajednici, zgrada će biti posve nekomercijalnog karaktera. Planira se prostor za sinagogu i kulturne sadržaje, ali se spominje i preseljenje vrtića te Osnovne škole "Lauder Lea Deutsch".

Do gradnje - parking
Također, Židovska će općina inzistirati na tome da se na natječaj, koji će biti raspisan za najdulje dva mjeseca, prime samo ponude hrvatskih arhitekata i izvođača jer će se cijeli projekt financirati iz državnog, odnosno gradskog proračuna. Tek nakon izrade idejnog rješenja i definiranja sadržaja znat će se koliko će gradnja stajati, a do početka radova, u Praškoj će ulici i dalje biti parkiralište. Naime, otkad je 2000. godine zemljište sinagoge vraćeno Židovskoj općini, na njemu Jakov Bienenfeld iznajmljuje stalna parkirna mjesta. Bienefelda su često, osobito nakon posljednjih sukoba unutar ŽOZ-a, prozivali da na parkiralištu zarađuje golem novac, no on je to uvijek opovrgavao.

Srušili je ustaše
Moj je profit u tome što sam proširio parkiralište do kraja parcele i tako dobio višak mjesta, a cijene najma su jednake onima Zagreb-parkinga rekao je Bienenfeld prije desetak dana te dodao da je sa svim svojim najmoprimcima sklopio ugovor u kojem stoji da se najam prekida čim se donese odluka o početku gradnje.
Sinagogu su u vrijeme II. svjetskog rata srušile ustaše po naredbi tadašnjeg gradonačelnika Ivana Wernera, a jugoslavenske vlasti zemlju su propustile vratiti Židovskoj općini, koja je bila vlasnik do oduzimanja 1942. godine. Ovim su se činom Zagreb i Vlada, makar simbolično, ispričali hrvatskim Židovima za progone i smaknuća u vrijeme holokausta.

______________
I think the idea is not bad cause i've always hated the hole.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 03:16 AM   #4
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podsjetnik na proteklu godinu

bubach, hvala na brzoj konstrukciji novog threada.
brzo je prošlo, eurotower je iznikao kao gljiva, pa dijelim s vama dva anaglifa zagrebačkog skylinea. potrebne su vam crveno-cijan naočale, možete u kino, igra neki glupi film za djecu u 3D tehnici.


18.svibnja, bio je užasno vrući dan, a ja sam u ugodnom društvu snimio ovu lijepu sliku dok eurotower nije bio niti na polovici.


a ovo je 17-listopada, ujutro, kad je bilo jako hladno. sunce je tek prosinulo i kontrastno osvijetlilo grad.



ovo je pogled s 24.kata najvišeg stambenog zagrebačkog nebodera, na rakete i zagrepčanku skupa s cibonom i HOTO. doslovno iz suprotnog smjera od prethodnih slika.


pogled prema dolje s istog mjesta.



16.lipnja, isto užasno vrući dan na medvedgradu. jako se malo može raspoznati što je u dolini, ali vidi se koliko je medvedgrad visoko.


westin s eurotowerom u drugom planu, snimljen analognim aparatom kroz dalekozor na utvrdi, isti dan kao i prethodna slika. eurotower je bio visok oko 10-11 katova.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 04:31 AM   #5
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wtf is with the 3d glasses thing? i mean i seriously dont see why its there....
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 05:26 AM   #6
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Mr Bubach. It will take me a day or two to colate the info from the past thread.

Anyway, well done at part 10.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 05:32 AM   #7
SinCity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwinczlav
OTKRIVAMO Grad Zagreb i Vlada financiraju gradnju židovskoga kulturnog centra
Zagreb opet dobiva sinagogu u Praškoj
______________
I think the idea is not bad cause i've always hated the hole.
I agree. It doesn't fully replace the loss but its still a good gesture. It would be interesting to see what the architects can come up with. Certainly better than that wretched parking lot.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 07:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinCity
Mr Bubach. It will take me a day or two to colate the info from the past thread.

Anyway, well done at part 10.
No frks I also made some small changes in our list today

btw, takodjer kaj se tice liste, zelio bih dodati onaj laboratorij/objekt za implementaciju i produkciju stanicnog tkiva, koji je trenutno U/C, i cije je fotke LF nedavno postao, samo mu ne znam strucni naziv (?)

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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:13 AM   #9
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Hoto Complex update

Dugo ocekivano otvorenje Hoto stambenog kompleksa u Svetoj Nedelji kod Samobora, popularno nazvanog "Hoto kuce".

Hoto shopping centar :


Tomo Horvatincic pjeva Nove Fosile


Horvatincic brizno stiti radnike od moguceg Bandicevog nasrtaja da preuzme skare u svoje ruke :


Unutar Hoto shopping centra. Jel' ono do Bandica na desno zagrebacko-ljubljanski muftija?


Hmm, ma gdje li se je to Bandic izgubio dok je ovo bilo slikano?


Par fotki s razlicitih mjesta unutar Hoto stambenog kompleksa







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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:28 AM   #10
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WOW WOW WOW!! Nice pictures!!
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 10:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach
Dugo ocekivano otvorenje Hoto stambenog kompleksa u Svetoj Nedelji kod Samobora, popularno nazvanog "Hoto kuce".

Nije mi jasno čemu bi u relativno mirnom Zagrebu trebala služiti ograđena naselja, ni "elita" na Pantovčaku i Tuškancu nije ograđena, ali Horvatinčićeva "elita" se mora odvojiti od "običnih" ljudi. Ne razumijem, ovo je još jedna Horvatinčićeva glupost, taj čovjek mi više stvarno ide na živce.

Usput, ne znam što se tamo Bandić došao slikavat kada to nema veze s njim, cijeli kompleks je na teritoriju Općine Sveta Nedjelja nad kojom on nema baš nikakvu nadležnost, kao da je došao na otvaranje vatrogasnog doma u Dugoj Resi...
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 10:31 AM   #12
bubach_hlubach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan NL263

Nije mi jasno čemu bi u relativno mirnom Zagrebu trebala služiti ograđena naselja, ni "elita" na Pantovčaku i Tuškancu nije ograđena, ali Horvatinčićeva "elita" se mora odvojiti od "običnih" ljudi. Ne razumijem, ovo je još jedna Horvatinčićeva glupost, taj čovjek mi više stvarno ide na živce.
Citao sam da ce Hoto centar unutar ovog naselja biti dostupan svima, i to je ok. Cak je i sam Horvatincic rekao da racuna da bi mu Slovenci mogli napraviti dobar promet.
Inace, za ostatak stambenog dijela naselja, "obicnim" gradjanima bi trebalo biti potpuno svejedno, heh, niti ja ne uletavam u haustore po Zaprudju ili Sigetu
Zamisli samo da su Horvatinciceve vile dvadesetorokatnice, ili ne daj Boze da je izgradio privatnu toplanu samo za naselje, i to s dimnjakom! Dovoljno da ti se pojavi Endimion17 s ekipom, netko se povrijedi pri penjanju ili spustanju, i tko ce onda za to odgovarati ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan NL263
Usput, ne znam što se tamo Bandić došao slikavat kada to nema veze s njim, cijeli kompleks je na teritoriju Općine Sveta Nedjelja nad kojom on nema baš nikakvu nadležnost, kao da je došao na otvaranje vatrogasnog doma u Dugoj Resi...
Apsolutno. To je Zagrebacka zupanija, i administrativno nema veze s gradom Zagrebom, ali kako mozes ocekivati od Bandica da poznaje zakonodavnu podjelu teritorijalnog ustrojstva Hrvatske, ako covjek ne zna tko je napisao hrvatsku himnu

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Old November 2nd, 2005, 02:47 PM   #13
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BTW, plz vote on Zagreb v Krakow...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...66#post6022466
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 05:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach
Citao sam da ce Hoto centar unutar ovog naselja biti dostupan svima, i to je ok. Cak je i sam Horvatincic rekao da racuna da bi mu Slovenci mogli napraviti dobar promet.
čekaj, centar će bit dostupan slovencima, a naselje je zatvorenog tima? zar će ljudi preskakat preko žice da bi došli u shopping? Mislim da je ta "zatvoreno naselje" spika čisti idiotizam iz razloga koje ste već naveli. Pazi koju je priču Tomo prodavao: "u hoto naselju djeca će se moći slobndno igrati". ma nemoj? a u novom zagrebu se ne igraju?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach
Inace, za ostatak stambenog dijela naselja, "obicnim" gradjanima bi trebalo biti potpuno svejedno, heh, niti ja ne uletavam u haustore po Zaprudju ili Sigetu
u zapruđu i sigetu ni nema haustora, vjeruj mi znam iz iskustva, živio tamo
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 05:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long foot
Pazi koju je priču Tomo prodavao: "u hoto naselju djeca će se moći slobndno igrati". ma nemoj?
Osim ako neki manijak se useli bas u to naselje... u tom slucaju jadna djeca nece moci ni da pobjegnu od njega
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 07:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SinCity
I agree. It doesn't fully replace the loss but its still a good gesture. It would be interesting to see what the architects can come up with. Certainly better than that wretched parking lot.
Toplo se nadam da neće pravit neko moderno sranje, već repliku stare sinagoge, što bi trebalo izgledati ovako:


Ako se ne varam prije godinu-dvije je u Budimpešti otvorena nova-stara sinagoga koja je također bila srušena i opet izgrađena prema izvornim planovima. Ima li netko fotke možda?
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 11:38 PM   #17
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Čitam baš na www.zeljeznice.net da je stigao i tmk 2206
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 11:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long foot
čekaj, centar će bit dostupan slovencima, a naselje je zatvorenog tima? zar će ljudi preskakat preko žice da bi došli u shopping? Mislim da je ta "zatvoreno naselje" spika čisti idiotizam iz razloga koje ste već naveli. Pazi koju je priču Tomo prodavao: "u hoto naselju djeca će se moći slobndno igrati". ma nemoj? a u novom zagrebu se ne igraju?
Ne znam tocno koja je shema s pristupom tom centru u odnosu na ostatak naselja, samo prenosim sto sam procitao, i to upravo u prijasnjem zagrebackom threadu, netko je postao clanak iz Vjesnika ili Vecernjaka uoci otvaranja Hoto naselja.

Glede spike "zatvorenog naselja", to je nesto novo na hrvatskom trzistu nekretnina, dok pametan Horvatincic samo koristi taj novonastali proizvod, na koji nasi ljudi ocito lako nasjedaju. Uostalom, mi nemamo nikakvo pravo zamjerati tom dalekovidnom businessmenu, on samo radi svoj posao mudro i itekako profitabilno.
Jedino mu mozemo zamjeriti jer je bespovratno uvrijedio nas ponos kad je rijec o sirokoj percepciji sigurnosti nasih gradova


Quote:
Originally Posted by long foot
u zapruđu i sigetu ni nema haustora, vjeruj mi znam iz iskustva, živio tamo
Ako nema haustora ili ti ga ulaza, kako onda dodjes do svojeg stana? Po protupozarnim stubama, ili niti njih nema ?

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Old November 2nd, 2005, 11:41 PM   #19
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koliko ja znam haustor je dvorište! ili možda godinama živim u zabludi?
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long foot
Čitam baš na www.zeljeznice.net da je stigao i tmk 2206
bas sam se naluknuo, i usput se vratio s ukradenim plijenom od Nikole s foruma zeljeznice.net

Grupnjak



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