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[Croatia] - Motorways III

89K views 523 replies 33 participants last post by  krzamak 
#1 ·
#77 ·
nikolas said:
So, now all the traffic towards Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece goes through Slovenia, Ljubljana and then to Zagreb.
Don't you think that it can become TOO MUCH traffic (environment pollution), if ALL of them continue to go through Ljubljana?
When the Razdrto (perheps as you say it is the right place for the interchange) - Jelsane is built, and further the motorway to Dubrovnik, Trebinje, Montenegro, Albania and Greece a certain number of these trucks will take the adriatic-ionian road.
So, I think that this motorway is a necessity in the next 5-10 years.
As I said it before, I think that this is in their interest, to pick up all the transfer traffic. Nobody cares about pollution, everybody cares about collecting toll and gas money.
 
#79 ·
snupix said:
As I said it before, I think that this is in their interest, to pick up all the transfer traffic. Nobody cares about pollution, everybody cares about collecting toll and gas money.
In South Tyrol and in Austria they don't think that way. They are going to build a 6o km railway tunnel under the Brenner pass to avoid pollution.
In South Tyrol the president of the region is going to bann euro 0 and euro 1 (pollution class) trucks in November from the motorway...
 
#80 ·
nikolas said:
Don't you think that it can become TOO MUCH traffic (environment pollution), if ALL of them continue to go through Ljubljana?
NO! :laugh:

Well, I think this corridor (Rijeka - Trieste) should sooner or later get a motorway connection, cuz after all it's part of the eastern Adriatic-Ionian motorway and connection between two cities, but it's really a problem, because Slovenians don't need it. The problem probably lies in the fact that Slovenia's covered with quite a lot of important transport corridors for such a small country; beside Rijeka - Trieste also Koper/Trieste - Budapest/Graz, Zagreb - Villach, Zagreb - Graz, Rijeka - Postojna (and Pula - Trieste). Although on the other hand we're talking of just 10 km (I consider the Rijeka - Postojna motorway important also for us :) ).
 
#81 ·
Hvala Tony na fotkama, konacno nesto vezano i za Hrvatsku i njezine autoceste u ovom threadu :master:

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
#82 ·
nikolas said:
In South Tyrol and in Austria they don't think that way. They are going to build a 6o km railway tunnel under the Brenner pass to avoid pollution.
In South Tyrol the president of the region is going to bann euro 0 and euro 1 (pollution class) trucks in November from the motorway...
They have inversion problems in most parts of Alpine Europe, in coastal Croatia with the 'bura' not as much of an issue.

Also with many governments & corporations starting to focus on 'cleaner' fuels for road vehicles it may not be as much of an issue in the medium term ?
 
#83 ·
OettingerCroat said:
I say this now:

PLEASE STICK TO CROATIAN MOTORWAYS.

CROATIAN MOTORWAYS DO NOT GO THROUGH PLACES LIKE MONTENEGRO, ALBANIA, SERBIA, SLOVENIA, GREECE, NIGERIA, CANADA, KAZAKHSTAN, OR NEW ZEALAND.

Therefore, please refrain from posting pictures of construction projects or posting news of project proposals from those countries.

HOWEVER, if there is a dilemma and somebody asks, for example, "When is Slovenia going to finish its motorways towards Croatia?", something like a map that Edolen posted on the previous thread and/or a picture proving construction is taking place IS ACCEPTABLE.

But DO NOT come to this thread and ARBITRARILY start posting maps or routes or pictures of motorways from OTHER countries.

This thread is for CROATIAN motorways.
:cheers:
 
#85 · (Edited)
bubach_hlubach said:
Originally Posted by OettingerCroat
HOWEVER, if there is a dilemma and somebody asks, for example, "When is Slovenia going to finish its motorways towards Croatia?", something like a map that Edolen posted on the previous thread and/or a picture proving construction is taking place IS ACCEPTABLE.
But DO NOT come to this thread and ARBITRARILY start posting maps or routes or pictures of motorways from OTHER countries.
We are talking exactly about that...
No pictures and maps from other countries unless really necessary, but a link to a picture or map can be made, as edolen did.
OettingerCroat, please read again what you have written by yourself!
 
#86 · (Edited)
#87 · (Edited)
http://www.minsaob.vlada.cg.yu/index.php?akcija=vijesti&id=15666
Here is the statement of the montenegrinian deputy minister of transportation Kalamperovic (mp3 format) on September 7: " We are working intensely on creating conditions for the motorways to be built, the adriatic-ionian motorway in the first place."
 
#88 ·
When I drive from Venice towards Triest, I see that the traffic is increasing all the time in the past years. The motorway from Venice (2-lane, probably it will be upgraded to 3-lane soon) is full of turkish, polish, hungarian, czech, slovakian, romanian, slovenian, croatian, bulgarian, ukranian, greek and other trucks. When I reach the junction with the motorway to Udine - Tarvisio - Austria, the number of trucks is halved. There are no more czech, polish, slovakian, ukrainian and hungarian trucks, because they don't go through Slovenia. When I reach Villesse, many turkish, romanian, slovenian, croatian, bulgarian, albanian and greek trucks are taking the highway to Gorizia. Thus, the number of the trucks, which remain on the road after Villesse is perheps 20% of those which come from Milan, Bologna, Venezia. Most of these go to Fernetti. After Fernetti there are only croatian trucks on the road to Rijeka. So, now all the traffic towards Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece goes through Slovenia, Ljubljana and then to Zagreb.
Don't you think that it can become TOO MUCH traffic (environment pollution), if ALL of them continue to go through Ljubljana?
Lep pozdrav vsem na forumu!!

Nikolas, večina tovornjakov iz Turčije, Romunije, Bolgarije ne potuje proti Zagrebu, ampak proti Mariboru in na mejni prehod Dolga vas (SLO/H meja). To je tudi razlog, zakaj je potrebna hitra cesta od MB do madžarske meje...

Razlog je v izogibanju mejnim kontrolam in carinskim pregledom. Zato tudi ni pričakovati, da bo Jadransko/Jonska avtocesta v naslednjih letih strateško pomembna. Najprej se morajo ukiniti formalnosti na meji, potem pa se lahko pogovarjamo o hitrih povezavah, ki bodo zanimive za tovornajake.
 
#89 · (Edited)
zelenec1 said:
Lep pozdrav vsem na forumu!!
Nikolas, večina tovornjakov iz Turčije, Romunije, Bolgarije ne potuje proti Zagrebu, ampak proti Mariboru in na mejni prehod Dolga vas (SLO/H meja). To je tudi razlog, zakaj je potrebna hitra cesta od MB do madžarske meje...
Razlog je v izogibanju mejnim kontrolam in carinskim pregledom. Zato tudi ni pričakovati, da bo Jadransko/Jonska avtocesta v naslednjih letih strateško pomembna. Najprej se morajo ukiniti formalnosti na meji, potem pa se lahko pogovarjamo o hitrih povezavah, ki bodo zanimive za tovornjake.
I think all Turks must go through Serbia. Romanians and Bulgarians, too. So , I don't understand what kind of customs control they can avoid passing through Hungary. Only the Croatian one!
Radenci-Beltinici towards Hungarian border has only 11000 VPD. So, where are all these trucks?
If that were so as you state it, these trucks would take the italian motorway to Udine (I) - Tarvisio (I) and then further to Villach (A) - Klagenfurt (A) - Graz (A) - Hungary, without going through Slovenia.
I can't believe the Turks go to Hungary:nuts:
 
#90 ·
^^ Ni res, večina tovornega prometa v smeri Romunije, Ukrajine... poteka preko Madžarske. S priključitvijo Slovenije in Madžarske EU za tovornjake ni več carinske kontrole, zaradi tega se izogibajo vožnji skozi Hrvaško in Srbijo.

Promet tovornjakov na relaciji MB-Lendava se je s priključitvijo Slovenije EU dramatično povečal - trenutno je število 70-75 tisoč tovornjakov na mesec....

Pa še ena primerjava: skozi Predor Karavanke je od otvoritve prevozilo 25 mio vozil, skozi predor Trojane (otvoritev junija 2005) pa v enem letu 8 mio vozil.
 
#92 ·
nikolas said:
I think all Turks must go through Serbia. Romanians and Bulgarians, too. So , I don't understand what kind of customs control they can avoid passing through Hungary. Only the Croatian one!
Radenci-Beltinici towards Hungarian border has only 11000 VPD. So, where are all these trucks?
If that were so as you state it, these trucks would take the italian motorway to Udine (I) - Tarvisio (I) and then further to Villach (A) - Klagenfurt (A) - Graz (A) - Hungary, without going through Slovenia.
I can't believe the Turks go to Hungary:nuts:
The traffic amounts in that document are from 2002. The MB - Hungarian border corridor got flooded by trucks when Slovenia entered the EU in 2004. Because of the astronomical increase in traffic numbers the government radically stepped up construction and planning speed so now the A5 motorway to Hungary will be finished by 2008 instead of 2012.

The amount of traffic going through Gruškovje/Macelj or Jelšane/Rupa can't compare to it. However, before Slovenia entered the EU, the amount of traffic was quite similar to the one going through Gruškovje or Jelšane, and the projected completion date was in 2012. See, so Slovenia wasn't conspiring against Croatia after all!

By the way, dobrodošel med nami, zelenec!
 
#93 ·
zelenec1 said:
Pa še ena primerjava: skozi Predor Karavanke je od otvoritve prevozilo 25 mio vozil, skozi predor Trojane (otvoritev junija 2005) pa v enem letu 8 mio vozil.
It's incredible! Trojane is a single tube tunnel, isn't it? So you have an average number of 15 vehicles that cross the tunnel each minute. It means 8 in each direction every minute, every hour, every day... Every 7 seconds one vehicle! Sometimes it is one vehicle every 30 seconds, sometimes one every 2-3 seconds. It is dangerous in a single tube tunnel!
 
#97 ·
Bubach , Snupix hvala!
Jos par fotkica za Vas ,a onda se kupim sa ovog threada :runaway:







p.s. sve ok ,al mene fakat ne zanima dali ce jonsko-jadransko-balticka brza cesta ici preko Romanije ili Trebevica i dali ce se spojiti na brzi cvor kod donje Radgone ili Titovog Velenja !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:

:cheers:
 
#99 · (Edited)
Well, as you can read in Slobodna Dalmacija (see last Krzamak's posting), there is a real construction fever behind the mountains of Split.
The chief engeneer of the Bisko-Sestanovac section said the motorway bridge over Cetina is going to be finished in April. As you know, the bridges are the major limitation for the commissioning of the motorway.
So, I expect the section to Sestanovac (37 km) to be opened in April 2007, as well as the section Krapina - Macelj.
The Sestanovac-Ploce section should be finished till June 30, 2008, but one can hope that it will be a few months prior to that date. On the same day (June 30, 2008) the construction of the Ploce-Dubrovnik section should start (we hope even earlier).
The motorway Dubrovnik-Ploce should be commissioned on December 31, 2010. It would be great, if it would happen in the summer 2010.
GO, GO! NOTHING CAN STOP US!
 
#100 · (Edited)
edolen1 said:
The amount of traffic going through Gruškovje/Macelj or Jelšane/Rupa can't compare to it. However, before Slovenia entered the EU, the amount of traffic was quite similar to the one going through Gruškovje or Jelšane, and the projected completion date was in 2012. See, so Slovenia wasn't conspiring against Croatia after all!
I believe, Slovenia is doing what is in its best interest. That is logical and acceptable.
However, if you talk about bilateral relations between two countries, then one's own interest (for example economic interest deriving from the trafic intensity) is not the only criterion. Bilateral means what both parties want or need. One can not have everything one wants and much understanding fro each other is necessary.
So, if you say: "We are European and we apply European principles", I say it is OK. But if you mean by that, that only your own economic interest counts, that is not European and it is not even bilateral. The European principles mean economic and cultural cooperation, order, but also understanding for the other party.
ALTOUGH YOU ARE IN THE EU NOW, YOU DON'T SEEM TO HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT!
Because, if Italy (Triest region) and Croatia need the connection Rijeka-Triest, you can't ignore it. That's exactly what you are doing. I understand that you need money to build other motorway sections in Slovenia. But, can we find another way, perheps a concession or common funding? The same can be said for the section Macelj-Gruskovje-Ptuj-Maribor, where the Austrians, who are the major investors in Croatia, would like to have that motorway built.
 
#101 ·
^^ imaš popolnoma prav, tako naj bi bilo v teoriji

žal pa bilateralni odnosi med SLO in CRO niso v najboljšem stanju, praktično se ne moremo dogovoriti za niti en mednarodni projekt. Nerešeni odnosi gotovo vplivajo tudi na hitrost izgradnje avtocest proti Hrvaški...

Ocenjujem, da se Slovenija ne bo odločila za izdajo koncesije (ko so nasplošno zelo problematična zadeva) dokler ne bodo urejeni odnosi med državama - žal gre za precej več, kot samo za gradnjo avtocest...
 
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