A Few Points to Touch On

[massp88]

After reading an interesting article about the net outflow of people from the state of Florida, for the first time in over 50 years, property taxes were mentioned as the biggest catalyst.

I am curious, for those that actually pay property taxes in Florida, how do you feel about the increases?


Another point I would like to mention is Hurricanes. How do you feel South Florida would handle and be able to recover from a major cat 5. hurricane?

[brickell]

I don't think any place truly recovers from a major cat 5 hurricane. Despite the growth in Homestead recently, you can still see the scars of Andrew in some places. You can rebuild, people and business can come back, but by then it's set you back another 20 years in terms of development. It could be 2 months or 2,000 years, but eventually Miami itself will face the consequences.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by massp88

how do you feel about the increases?

How do I feel? I feel great when my value goes up instead of down.
Millage rate x tax assessed value = taxes payable
In the City of Miami Beach, the rate is declining, and now, the values are declining.
If my millage rate that I pay to the City is worth the Services that the City provide me, then that is great. The City of Miami Beach services are an excellent value. We are very blessed to have a strong business base that provides for some very expensive commerical real estate. Expensive commercial real estate means lots of property tax income.

Originally Posted by massp88

How do you feel South Florida would handle and be able to recover from a major cat 5. hurricane?

The people of South Florida would handle the challenge with dignity, and of course, they would recover.
It has been 17 years since we experienced Andrew, my family lost houses, businesses, and farms, within 1 year, everything was up and running again. Some people re-built faster, some more slowly.
Without a doubt, the property values have risen significantly since.

We haven't seen anything like that in 17 years, and before that it was several decades.

[dave8721]

I doubt taxes or hurricanes have much to do with people leaving lately. Florida's taxes are already below average for the US (as much as the locals tend to think otherwise) and we haven't been hit by a hurricane lately either so I doubt that would have been the reason some one moved last year either.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by dave8721

I doubt taxes or hurricanes have much to do with people leaving lately. Florida's taxes are already below average for the US (as much as the locals tend to think otherwise) and we haven't been hit by a hurricane lately either so I doubt that would have been the reason some one moved last year either.

Agreed.
A poll of locals would probabaly tell you that South Florida has the worst transportation, education, taxes, police, etc in the universe.
An unbiased and broad study of similar topics (like the ratings in the Places Rated journal) would show that South Florida performs quite well realitive to other places.

[Södermalm]

this would be a good thread for spellbound to comment on, he seems to be the resident exiled miamian

i know most locals are happy to see the population decrease as they like it less crowded, but it makes no difference to me.

even though the overall tax burden is generally lower in fl than most other states, i think it is good that people are rising up and challenging them.

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by Södermalm

this would be a good thread for spellbound to comment on, he seems to be the resident exiled miamian

Dude, you must be psychic. I was typing the post as you wrote that!

(what are the lottery numbers this week?)

[Södermalm]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Dude, you must be psychic. I was typing the post as you wrote that!

(what are the lottery numbers this week?)

apparently my powers are limited to reading your mind... i am not finding the lottery numbers in there though

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Södermalm

this would be a good thread for spellbound to comment on, he seems to be the resident exiled miamian

Good point.
Spell, did you leave because your property taxes increased, because of the fear of hurricanes, or because of personal reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with fear of hurricanes or property taxes.

[Roark]

Miami-Dade County keeps property tax rates at the same level.
Source

The City of Miami Beach property tax rate has not increased either.

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by Roark

Good point.
Spell, did you leave because your property taxes increased, because of the fear of hurricanes, or because of personal reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with fear of hurricanes or property taxes.

I'm still paying property taxes in Dade County (on two houses)...so that wasn't it.

Hurricanes? Nope. I like UM even though I find pro football much more interesting (that's what you meant, right?)

Seriously, it was no more than a desire for a different lifestyle and the fact that I truly love having seasons. Not a fan of the heat (the NBA version is OK, though).

Plus, frustration over the continuing lack of a Telly Savalas memorial---although I'm also down with your Billy Ocean proposal...

[Roark]

Originally Posted by spellbound

I'm still paying property taxes in Dade County (on two houses)...so that wasn't it.
Hurricanes? Nope.

That was my hunch.
The topic of this thread implies taxes and fear of hurricanes are the reasons people move away, I doubt many people move from Miami for those reasons.

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by massp88

After reading an interesting article about the net outflow of people from the state of Florida, for the first time in over 50 years, property taxes were mentioned as the biggest catalyst.

I am curious, for those that actually pay property taxes in Florida, how do you feel about the increases?


Another point I would like to mention is Hurricanes. How do you feel South Florida would handle and be able to recover from a major cat 5. hurricane?

I read the article yesterday, and in fact was asked to comment on it on a neighborhood website I frequent here in Philly since I'm the resident 'Miami Guy.'

Honestly, I don't think the reversal of Florida's population numbers should come as a great shock to anyone who's been paying attention. It's been pretty clear that was the trend in recent years---even though now it's official.

The reasons for it are many, of course, but the article makes clear that the disparity between living costs and wages (which are still below national norms) is surely a huge factor. As everyone knows, insurance rates---at least in coastal areas---are often obscenely high and it's been an ongoing challenge to even get some providers to write ANY policy in the state.

Some of it, too, is likely that the state has simply lost some of its allure...much in the same manner California has. Not that a person can't enjoy a wonderful lifestyle anyplace but I suspect the increased urbanization of the state along with the living costs has made plenty look elsewhere for that 'dream' location...if such a place even really exists.

You know, I think I posted here a couple of years ago that South Florida would likely see a stagnation or reversal in population growth and that---rather than see it as a negative---use the new reality as an OPPORTUNITY to do some things differently. Developers, for instance, have little valid argument anymore in saying the western development boundary need to be further extended. As such, making that boundary iron-clad and refocusing more energy on the urban cores is both sensible and in tune with what's really happening population-wise. Our schools are a mess, but the cessation of unbridled growth is perhaps a chance to 'take a breather' and reassess how to improve what already exists rather than constantly worry about the need for additional space and facilities. With transportation, this may be an opportunity to put less emphasis on new roads in the suburban and exurban hinterlands and focus on the inadequate mass-transit that underserves the existing population.

Some may bemoan a population reversal (after all, it's something none of us has experienced before in Florida) but I truly believe that positives can come from it with a different mindset.

With the hurricane stuff, needless to say a Cat 5 direct hit would be a catastrophic event that would fundamentally alter life for millions. Andrew--as horrific as it was--pales in comparison to what a monster storm would do if centered on the urban core of South Florida. Andrew was a compact storm whose most destructive core encompassed a relatively small area (at least in comparison to the size of most hurricanes). South Florida's urban center has NEVER felt the full force of a Cat 5---only the 1926 storm even remotely approached that scenario in a much smaller city. The property losses would be in the tens of billions, there would be a huge net migration out, and full recovery would take many, many years.

You are right that there's an 'inevitability' facor involved simply because of geography but let's hope that day is 500 years from now. It would be too horrific for words.

Anyway, here's a link to the article massp88 referenced: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009090...08599191991600

[Södermalm]

the fear factor that the media hypes about hurricanes is overplayed - certainly they cause destruction, but newer construction can generally withstand any storm - even a cat. 5, and it is almost fun to ride out a storm. there are almost no direct deaths caused by hurricanes anymore now that they can be tracked, and any death toll is usually idiots driving around the time of the storm or chainsawing electric poles afterward. and in the end hurricanes are always a boon for the local economy.

as far as inevitability, i think it is inevitable that technology to alter or slow them will be around shortly, here is bill gates' plan
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/rese...rricanes_N.htm