SkyscraperCity Forum banner

DUBLIN | Luas Cross City

340K views 2K replies 100 participants last post by  Wilderbeast 
#1 · (Edited)
Dublin Light Rail System
LUAS CROSS CITY

Lines BX and D





The Luas Cross city project will link the Red and Green lines with a line from Broombridge in North Dublin (interchange with Irish Rail station) and St.Stephen's Green present Green Line stop. Construction started in June 2013 with services expected to begin in 2017.​

- Related threads
LUAS light rail construction updates
DUBLIN | DART, Luas and Commuter rail services
DUBLIN | DART Airport Extension
DUBLIN | DART Underground
Dublin Connolly - Maynooth Rail Line to be Electrified (DART Extension)
Transport Projects in Ireland
DUBLIN | Full Summary of Projects

- Useful external links
LUAS CROSS CITY

Luas

RPA

Dublin Bus

Dublin City Council

Luas eolas

Luas informacje

________________________________________
███████████████ Line BX and D ██
Line BX – City Centre link for Red and Green Lines. The RPA started public consultation on the route in December 2005. In March 2007 the preferred route was announced. The planned route runs from St. Stephens Green to College Green where the line changes from a double track to single track. From here it runs north through Westmoreland St., over O’Connell Bridge and along the west side of O’Connell St. to Cathal Brugha St. It then turns east into Cathal Brugha St. and turns south to run along Marlborough St., across the River Liffey on a new bridge, continues along Hawkins St. and College St. and joins up with the double track section of the line at College Green. 2012 was the original completion date given in the Transport 21 plans, but construction has not yet started. The RPA applied for a Railway Order application to An Bord Pleanála for a combined Line D / Line BX Luas Line that is planned to run from St. Stephen’s Green to Broombridge via the city centre and Broadstone / Grangegorman.

Line D – City Centre to Liffey Junction. This is expected to serve Grangegorman, the site of the proposed new DIT campus. This line will linked with the Maynooth line.


St Stephen's Green (2004)
Dawson Street (2017)
Trinity (2017)
Westmoreland Street (2017)
Marlborough Street (2017)
O'Connell Street - GPO (2017)
O'Connell Street Upper (2017)
Parnell Street (2017)
Dominick Street (2017)
Broadstone - D.I.T.(2017)
Grangegorman (2017)
Phibsborough (2017)
Cabra (2017)
Broombridge (Interchange for DART and train) (2017)
████████████████████████████████████████████
________________________________________

Legend
Operating stations
Stations in preparation
________________________________________

Dublin rail system



Proposed planned future extensions

Line B2 – Cherrywood to Bray environs extension (Green Line). Was a proposed extension of 6.8 km (4.2 mi). On 6 June 2007, the route of this Luas extension was announced. It was proposed to run from Cherrywood to Fassaroe and Bray (adjacent to Daly station), and would run very close to the M11 motorway, eventually crossing it near the Wilford interchange.

Line F1/2 – City Centre to Lucan. On 27 September 2007, Noel Dempsey (Minister for Transport) launched the public consultation process for the planned Luas line to Lucan. Two main route options where identified, with a number of sub-options also identified. It was expected that would link with the proposed Metro West. The preferred route was announced in November 2008 and the RPA where planning the precise alignment and station and depot locations. The planning for the two lines was split in two. Line F1 was to be the line from Lucan to where it will connect with the existing red line at Blackhorse and Line F2 will be where the line was to leave the existing red line at James and continue on to College Green.

Luas network



Luas ("speed"), also promoted in the development stage as the Dublin Light Rail System, is a tram or light rail system serving Dublin, the first such system in the decades since the closure of the last of the Dublin tramways. In 2012, the system carried 29.4 million passengers, up from 29.06 million passengers in 2011.

There are currently two Luas main lines. The Green line commenced operations on 30 June 2004, while the Red Line opened on 26 September 2004. Since the initial opening both lines have been extended and 'split' into different branches. As of May 2013, the system has 54 stations and 36.5 kilometres (22.7 mi) of service track.

The Luas is operated by Veolia Transport, under tender from the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA). It is a major part of the Dublin Transportation Office's strategy (2000–2016). There are several extensions as well as new lines at the planning stage.

 
See less See more
27
#1,371 ·
Jimble that is exactly what I said on another forum, imagine the tram approaches junction at a slow speed, or even comes to a stop then moves, how long will it take to clear the junction? probably 15-20 seconds, its nothing!

I was sat on luas cross city the other day at multiple small junctions where there were perfect line of sights for all road users and the bloody luas was sat there while nothing was approaching the junction from directions!!! :bash:
 
#1,373 · (Edited)
The biggest problem here is that the standard of driving is atrocious and there is little respect for the rules of the road. Walking, even short distances, around the city centre every day I see constant cars running red lights, blocking yellow boxes, etc. With the level of interaction between Luas and other traffic now, enforcement of the rules is vital to ensure that the Luas operates as it should. Luas trams (and buses) should be fitted with dash cams with footage of any traffic violations passed onto Gardai for prosecution. Perhaps the driver could press a button which would leave a marker on the video of any potential violation for later review. There needs to be a serious crack down on traffic violations, the kind of shit that has happened up to now can no longer be tolerated.

Edit;
The same applies to buses, any ****** obstructing a bus lane should be given a serious fine. And just to avoid confusion, bus lanes should be for exclusively for buses 24 hours a day (to facilitate longer bus operating hours). Drivers just use bus lanes for undertaking, speeding and general dickish behavior and that needs to be stopped. Our public transport system would work infinitely better if drivers were severely published for impacting negatively upon it.
 
#1,374 ·
The biggest problem here is that the standard of driving is atrocious and there is little respect for the rules of the road. Walking, even short distances, around the city centre every day I see constant cars running red lights, blocking yellow boxes, etc. With the level of interaction between Luas and other traffic now, enforcement of the rules is vital to ensure that the Luas operates as it should. Luas trams (and buses) should be fitted with dash cams with footage of any traffic violations passed onto Gardai for prosecution. Perhaps the driver could press a button which would leave a marker on the video of any potential violation for later review. There needs to be a serious crack down on traffic violations, the kind of shit that has happened up to now can no longer be tolerated.
While this is absolutely needed do the gardai even have the resources to do such work?
 
#1,384 ·
Kudos to the sun 😂

Hardly surprising... Luas is helpful but underground is more helpful if we want to maintain a growth addiction...
 
#1,387 ·
My experience from today: 20 minutes from Cabra to Dawson at 9:30 or so, absolutely buttery smooth experience, the only slight delay was waiting at Dominick because we were a minute or so ahead of schedule (something I'm guessing they won't do once the 7 new trams arrive and frequency goes up).

On the way back, same journey in reverse at about 11:30, took about 16/17 minutes. Really impressed, fantastic service in my situation anyway. It would have taken about 30 minutes at least to get anywhere near Dawson Street in a car, then who knows how much longer to get parked, plus who knows how much frustration in the process. This is so much better.

I did notice a couple of problems that need to be tackled quickly though - taxis on Dawson Street are unbelievable, they'll just park and stop wherever they feel like it, blocking the tracks all the time. They need to be banned from core parts of the city centre transport routes, they're not public transport. The other problem was delivery trucks turning onto Duke Street, too many of them all trying to get there at the exact same time, then blocking it up, and the queue was spilling out onto the N/B tracks. Someone over on boards.ie mentioned a last-mile trial using a central depot and bike couriers, this needs to be greatly expanded.
 
#1,388 ·
Someone over on boards.ie mentioned a last-mile trial using a central depot and bike couriers, this needs to be greatly expanded.
I discovered one of those on Wolfe Tone Street in Dublin recently, they're a good idea.
 
#1,389 · (Edited)
The trams missing from this neck of the Green line must be reassigned to Cabra :eek:hno:


Luas delays and overcrowding to continue ‘until March’

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/env...vercrowding-to-continue-until-march-1.3329095
Paywall alert

Fascinating article this. Bottom line is the Luas has been given a free pass to screw up the city centre at least until March. Key points:

* The frequency on the existing Green Line has dropped due to this PT enhancement - (that'll get them out of their cars!)

*The reason the frequency has dropped is not the rush hour chaos in the city centre. No - it's the utter and grotesque incompetence of the TII and other "planning" authorities who, despite knowing the opening day of LX since early 2013 have booked the additional trams to arrive in March!

*TII spokesman Sean O'Neill made this astoundingly insightful observation (he'd make a good contributor here :) ) that the reduction in the frequency of the trams had..wait for it..."an impact on the schedule"

*Less trams it seems, amazingly, leads to congestion and crowding and increased time the tram must remain at each stop. So that is why the line from Stephens Green to Broadstone is running so slowly.

*There are "technical issues" which meant the "real-time" displays indicating when trams are due do "not reflect the actual service"

*But, apparently the same authorities who utterly failed to predict any of these problems despite four leisurely months of testing and 10 years of "planning" now think that in March "once the frequency is restored the delays should end.

Pity about the effect of more and longer trams on the cyclists and buses - given the degree of delay and chaos currently being inflicted by fewer shorter trams :eek:hno:

Did I mention cyclists? they have a vocal fan-club here that seems a tad quiet at the moment maybe because

Grisly images show cyclists' horrific Luas line injuries

https://www.herald.ie/news/grisly-images-show-cyclists-horrific-luas-line-injuries-36412875.html

Evening Herald...no paywall; I've removed the Herald image as it's a bit yucky for those of delicate sensibility...you can see it yerselves.

And like the new trams booked for six months after completion of the line, they are now thinking about some rubber solution to the fallen cyclists - years after said cyclists had asked that they be incorporated in the line from day one.

But sure, 'tis grand. :cheers:
 
#1,390 · (Edited)
Did I mention cyclists? they have a vocal fan-club here that seems a tad quiet at the moment maybe because

Grisly images show cyclists' horrific Luas line injuries

https://www.herald.ie/news/grisly-images-show-cyclists-horrific-luas-line-injuries-36412875.html

Evening Herald...no paywall; I've removed the Herald image as it's a bit yucky for those of delicate sensibility...you can see it yerselves.

And like the new trams booked for six months after completion of the line, they are now thinking about some rubber solution to the fallen cyclists - years after said cyclists had asked that they be incorporated in the line from day one.

But sure, 'tis grand. :cheers:
With all the respect, bur are the Irish cyclist particularly inept? Tram tracks crisscross numerous European cities and you don't hear about cyclist there falling or dying in droves.

And before someone starts moaning how bad the Irish tracks are compared with the European tram tracks here are few shots from the continent:

Pland, some are really bad:








Switzerland


Amsterdam:






Do you see any particular rubber protection for cyclists?

Amount of moaning in this thread is unbelievable.
 
#1,403 ·
What's the situation with the space between the Broombridge stop and the railway station on the Dublin - Maynooth line? One has to walk across the middle of a road, and over a narrow bridge at present to get to the railway station.

Anybody know of a suggested entrance been constructed to link the Broombridge Luas stop and the railway station beside it?
 
#1,405 ·
A footbridge is being constructed currently beside the LUAS platform.

Being honest, until the peak LUAS frequency is increased, and similarly the off-peak Maynooth Line frequency increases, the scope for interchange at Broombridge is limited. Both should happen in the Spring.
 
#1,414 ·
A productivity deal will be reached with the drivers sooner rather than later. Suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.
Until the next gripe, to say otherwise is disingenuous.


Any future LUAS operator is going to want to avoid getting burnt like Transdev have just been. I would expect to see changes in future contracts.

There is no reason it should take 18 months to train up a train driver for the DART, as it stands it is no more than 1 and a bit lines. It is exactly that sort of union inflicted gross inefficiency that has us this way in the first place.

Tendering the DART should be done not to operate the current fleet, rather a completely new concession to supply a complete new fleet and staff. The successful franchise would then have a lead of 18 months to 2 years to get everything in place before starting their service. This model has been successful in many of our EU neighbours.


.
 
#1,415 ·
Until the next gripe, to say otherwise is disingenuous.


Any future LUAS operator is going to want to avoid getting burnt like Transdev have just been. I would expect to see changes in future contracts.

There is no reason it should take 18 months to train up a train driver for the DART, as it stands it is no more than 1 and a bit lines. It is exactly that sort of union inflicted gross inefficiency that has us this way in the first place.

Tendering the DART should be done not to operate the current fleet, rather a completely new concession to supply a complete new fleet and staff. The successful franchise would then have a lead of 18 months to 2 years to get everything in place before starting their service. This model has been successful in many of our EU neighbours.
.
Any contract that involves changes in employee working conditions is going to be subject to negotiation with the unions - they are not going to simply bulldoze changes through.

I think that you will find that 18 months is in line with the industry average for training a new train driver. Nothing to do with the unions.
 
#1,424 ·
Some see driverless train technology as a sliver bullet for possible labour disputes.

I would be careful with such assessment. The system will still need staff. They might not be driving trains, they will work in the control room, at the stations or maintain the technologically advanced trains.
For safety reasons they will always have more bargaining power than average worker in a supermarket.

The system where you could do away with any employees is very far indeed, if ever possible.
 
#1,425 ·
I don't believe in silver bullets - but I do believe that the CIE Unions are a major obstacle to improving PT in Dublin.

It is "delusional" to imagine drivers can't be replaced - and pretending/hoping that they can't be will only shorten the already numbered days of train (and bus) drivers.

Then we are in a whole new world when it comes to cost/flexibility issues which is one of the twin pillars of poor PT.

(The other being chronic under investment in physical infrastructure.)

We need to fix both problems if we are to get a modern PT system in Dublin.
 
#1,431 ·
SBP today (paper edition; can't link site yet):

New cross-city Luas doubles bus journey times in Dublin

"Highlights" :eek:hno:

- Analysis by DCC shows bus journey times have increased by up to 110%

- Buses are "now crawling through the city centre at just 1.7kph"

- Southbound buses between 9am and 11am take between 85% and 110% longer to cross the city centre than they did in January 2017

- A trip that took 13 minutes in 2017 now takes 24 minutes on average.

- After peak, between 10am and 11am the time taken has risen from 8 minutes to 18 minutes!!

- Similar stats northbound and for other time periods.

- The current report, amazingly, also states that "the City Council was first warned of the impact of LXC on commuting times back in 2014"
 
#1,435 ·
Not if they synchronise the lights and restrict cars.
How long does synchronising lights take? They've had five years since they knew the start date for LXC :eek:hno:

As for "restricting cars" I see the total incompetence of the "planners" is building up a head of steam:

'Luas planners let us down' - TD blasts Cross City network and says Northside is suffering most

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/luas-planners-down-td-blasts-14276278

And of course I realise the probability that FG TD Rock has contributed nothing positive towards advancing modern PT in Dublin in his political career is approaching 1.

"Deputy Rock said: “When it comes to any suggestion that buses should be run off the road in order to prioritise the Luas, all public representatives need to be clear: absolutely not."
 
#1,436 ·
Yet another tidbit for the education of mindless mediocrities who imagine a city centre surface tram can ever substitute for a metro...cars banned or not:

Passengers fume at crowded trams as Luas red line delayed this morning

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/passengers-fume-crowded-trams-luas-14277236

This gross under-capacity on the city centre stretch of the Red Line is exacerbated by LXC but it was already critical before LXC even opened.

And to think that the Lucan Luas plan is to feed "Line F" into this logjam! (Whatever decade they get around to connecting Lucan)

Again...the lack of appreciation of the scale of the PT transport (and transport all modes) deficit in Dublin by the utter mediocrities who govern and comment on these matters is mind-boggling.

We need a metro now - as a national emergency - akin to the housing crisis - and both are linked by the fact that the Eire seriously isn't able to do modern infrastructure :eek:hno:
 
#1,437 ·
What a load of nonsense. Maybe FG should stick to what it knows best - average and big time farmers, and leave Urban Planning in 21st century Dublin to those who know what the hell they are talking about. The Luas Cross City line was a vital piece of infrastructure, linking two lines that should have been linked up over a decade ago, as well as providing a rail service to areas of the Northside.

Deputy Rock is stuck in the 1970's with his mindset, Dublin needs as much light rail infrastructure as it can get, one that would also connect all important train stations and streets to other infrastructure projects like the Interconnector. Commuters should be angry at the incompetence of Dublin Bus in managing their way around the new Luas line, not the fact that there is a long awaited rail line in place. Light rail, where affordable and feasible should always take priority.........a bus service can act as a feeder to any expanding network.
 
#1,438 ·
Peoples anger should be directed towards the gobshite business owners and car park operators who opposed the measures which were intended to keep public transport moving once LCC became operational. Removing private cars from Bachelor's Walk and the right turn onto OCB was intended to ensure Luas could cross unimpeded onto OCS. The NTA tried to bring in measures but was prevented from doing so, it is those who prevented them who are at fault, ironically the same business owners who will be now bitching about the situation which they created but accept no responsibility for.
 
#1,439 ·
Some good may come of the cheapskate fiasco that is Luas XC...

Metro North plan change considered by Government
More of 17km track could be underground under revised proposals for airport rail link

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/metro-north-plan-change-considered-by-government-1.3390016

Apparently the Government, spooked by the chaos caused by LXC, are now, after several years delay, going back to the idea that MN should run mainly underground.

A pity the bleedin' obvious (widely predicted) has to actually occur before the penny drops for our mediocrities :cheers:

Now maybe they'll realise that DU is an indispensable enabler of further Luas lines into or across the city centre....if only our resident "banning cars will solve everything" nonsense-mongers would likewise hear the penny dropping :)
 
#1,440 ·
The article is pretty light on details: It just mentions " more of the track". It is hard to comment without knowing what priorities drive the design of MN. Whether metro is fully or partially underground is secondary to the number of interactions with roads and other types of infrastructure. You may still have metro on surface by digging shallow excavations and building overpasses in critical points. Look at LUAS near Cabra: the tram goes on surface and yet it does not disturb, or is disturbed by traffic on North Circular Road or Cabra Road. Certainly, building underground in the city center is inevitable. Outside the center, you have more freedom in modifying the track location, stop density, or just building short tunnels or road bridges in critical places.
 
#1,441 ·
The key point is that - according to the article - the FG eyes have finally been opened to the folly of trying to solve the city's transport problems with on-street solutions.

In the centre underground is the only viable option...in the suburbs there may be more...but there are not many disused railway lines left so the suburban Green line is hardly a relevant template.
 
#1,443 · (Edited)
I'm tired pointing our here that Eire's administrative, political and commentariat classes are complete mediocrities. But if you want a topical example - I give you Shane Ross, former Sindo "intellectual" :lol:

'Luas teething problems add to city traffic chaos', says Ross

https://www.herald.ie/news/luas-teething-problems-add-to-city-traffic-chaos-says-ross-36558883.html

This insightful genius said:

"There seems to be a lack of capacity because it is so popular in the initial phases since the launch on December 9," he said.

"There has been the most amazing appetite for it from people to go across the city, and what we are doing in response to that, because we anticipated this, is we're having new trams.

"They're starting this month, particularly on the Green Line. We are also going to have extended trams, and hopefully that will be completed by St Patrick's Day, but certainly by the end of March. I think we will see those problems largely resolved."
So...he didn't realise that if you extend a line by several km in length than logically the frequency of the service must decline unless you add extra trams?!

Maths a 7-year old could understand.

But apparently such a surprise to Ross that he needs to waffle incoherently attributing the mess to all manner of irrelevancies. And not just Ross - it would appear our "planners" and "experts" are similarly innumerate :eek:hno:

And as for
what we are doing in response to that, because we anticipated this, is we're having new trams
- why are the new trams months late when the opening date on LXC was known since at least 2013?

This guy makes Donald Trump look like a seriously gifted thinker and planner - not to mention more coherent in his speech...
 
#1,445 · (Edited)
here in the UK we have an orangutan serving as foreign secretary

That's frightfully rude :cheers:

More feedback on LXC:

Dáil Hears Shocking Information About New Luas Cross City Line

https://lovindublin.com/news/dáil-hears-shocking-information-about-new-luas-line

RTÉ is reporting that Fianna Fáil's Transport spokesman said he would have been quicker walking than taking the Luas Cross City Line.

The Dáil was told that Robert Troy took the Cross City line from Dawson Street to O'Connell Street on 15th February, so that he could experience for himself, the length of time that it takes. Troy said in the Dáil that: "It took 20 minutes, I would have been quicker walking.
So it isn't just the Daily Mirror bringing the bad news about LX (lack of) speed!

Denial is no longer a credible option - LXC is an obstructive snail...

But if you want a laugh to cheer you up - here is Shane Ross's response:

Minister for Transport Shane Ross said in response that he expects the long waiting period to be fixed "very quickly" but for the time being, it seems like there is no short-term solution to the problem.

Ross called the situation a "teething problem" because of lack of capacity.
Very quickly - but not in the short term. This clown goes way, way beyond a joke.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top