Detroit 20 years from now?

[weava]

Originally Posted by bayviews

Most US metros are too segregated & racially polarized, Detroit just being the worst example, albeit Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Cleveland, & St. Louis also rank up that list. However, rather than looking back at the mistakes of segregated metros like Detroit, its better to take ideas from successful metros, like NYC, Boston, the Twin Cities, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Houston, & Seattle, metros that have at once embraced high levels of both diversity & prosperity.

You listed a bunch of cities with very low black populations, of course they don't seem as segregated.... and NYC and Atlanta are still very segregated.

[hudkina]

I know... 95.1% of the Seattle MSA's white population live in Block Groups that are less than 15%. Only 1.7% of the Seattle MSA's white population live in Block Groups where the black population is within 20% of the white population. (whether 60/40 white, or 60/40 black)

That is hardly a compelling argument for diversity... In fact, I'd say the "whites" of Seattle have done a fairly good job of segregating themselves from all the "blacks" back east.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by weava

You listed a bunch of cities with very low black populations, of course they don't seem as segregated.... and NYC and Atlanta are still very segregated.

Most metros like those mentioned which have moved on beyond just black & white are doing quite well. NYC may seem rather segregated if your still considering just black & white, etc. However in highly diverse cities like NYC there are so many immigrant & ethnic groups within the various racial classifications. Atlanta suffers some racial segregation, but nothing compared to hyper segregated metros like Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Buffalo, etc.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by hudkina

I know... 95.1% of the Seattle MSA's white population live in Block Groups that are less than 15%. Only 1.7% of the Seattle MSA's white population live in Block Groups where the black population is within 20% of the white population. (whether 60/40 white, or 60/40 black)

That is hardly a compelling argument for diversity... In fact, I'd say the "whites" of Seattle have done a fairly good job of segregating themselves from all the "blacks" back east.

If you want to understand diversity in the Seattle area, you have to include Asians as the largest minority category, around 15% for King County, the central two million. Asians have noticeably spread out since 2000 based on the NYT numbers...some of the old neighborhoods have decreased percentage, and just about everywhere else has increased. A lof of new suburbia and new infill is heavily Asian. My building for example is probably 40%. Hispanics have also become a sizeable group through less in the middle of town where I am. And American Indians are well represented, particularly with reservations ringing the city.

I'd argue that nation of birth is a key aspect of diversity, not just ethnicity. And not just two groups, but many groups that are sizeably represented.

[weava]

Originally Posted by bayviews

Most metros like those mentioned which have moved on beyond just black & white are doing quite well. NYC may seem rather segregated if your still considering just black & white, etc. However in highly diverse cities like NYC there are so many immigrant & ethnic groups within the various racial classifications. Atlanta suffers some racial segregation, but nothing compared to hyper segregated metros like Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Buffalo, etc.

you can spin your BS however you want but you are wrong

your ideal cities have low black populations(metro %)
Boston 7%
Seattle 5%
Twin Cities 7%

While the bad cities are
Detroit 23%
Cleveland 20%
STL 18%

the black neighborhoods are much larger in the 2nd group of cities because there are more black people in those cities which is why the segregation seems bigger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...an_populations

Just look at this map and you will see that there is segregation of all races in every city.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by mhays

If you want to understand diversity in the Seattle area, you have to include Asians as the largest minority category, around 15% for King County, the central two million.

The problem is that segregation is really only a black/white issue. How integrated Asians or Hispanics have become is irrelevant when talking about racial issues as there has never been a large scale struggle for integration among Asians and Hispanics as there has been among Blacks.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by weava

you can spin your BS however you want but you are wrong

Too busy to respond to stuff like this, just a waist of time.

[papa_spaz]

Originally Posted by weava

Just look at this map and you will see that there is segregation of all races in every city.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer

That is the way it is in all of the cities in Louisiana. It was like this even in high school and college. At lunch time in the cafeteria the white people would sit on one side of the room and the blacks sat on the other side of the room. College class rooms were the same with blacks sitting with blacks. Same with the whites. We all segregated ourselves. No one forced us to do this.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by papa_spaz

That is the way it is in all of the cities in Louisiana. It was like this even in high school and college. At lunch time in the cafeteria the white people would sit on one side of the room and the blacks sat on the other side of the room. College class rooms were the same with blacks sitting with blacks. Same with the whites. We all segregated ourselves. No one forced us to do this.

Perhaps US Americans might take some lessons from Latin American countries, where racial mixture isn't considered an abomination, as it remains in many parts of the US. It's hard to find any countries, save South Africa, that are still as racially balkanized & segregated as in the US.

[hudkina]

It's hard to find any countries as racially diverse as the U.S.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by hudkina

It's hard to find any countries as racially diverse as the U.S.

Indeed the US has become much more diverse in recent decades. However for the most part, starting in schools & going thru the campuses & into the workforces, what we have is still rather balkanized diversity.

[hudkina]

But the point remains no country is as "balkanized" (ironic using that term in this context) as the U.S. because no country has the type of diversity as the U.S.

It's just like the Seattle example. Oh, Seattle is so great, because all its black people live right alongside the whites and Asians unlike those nasty racist Rust Belt cities! Never mind the fact that Seattle doesn't have any black people to begin with...

[mhays]

I assume that was a joke.

But you're right, we do mix more here. By my quick count from the NYT maps of 2010, Seattle and the near suburbs had 23 census tracts that are at least 20% black, but the highest was 39%.

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by mhays

But you're right, we do mix more here.

How? Only 1.7% of Seattle's white population lives in a neighborhood that is within a 60/40 range, white or black. That's not mixing... That's showing that Seattle doesn't have a significant black population and without a significant black population, you're not going to see the large-scale black neighborhoods that you see in cities with actual black populations.

[mhays]

Huh? I said we're mixed, not that we have a huge AA population.

To achieve 60/40, we'd need to concentrate more, not less.

Our overall percentage is probably around 8% in-city, now that a lot of people have moved to the suburbs, vs. a peak around 10%. I'm sorry that you consider that not an "actual" black population.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by hudkina

But the point remains no country is as "balkanized" (ironic using that term in this context) as the U.S. because no country has the type of diversity as the U.S.

In truth, most of the countries in the Americas have a history not unlike the US. The displacement of the indigenous Americans, Slaves imported from Africa, Europeans, & some Asians & Middle Easterners immigrants, etc. And with the Latino boom, we're becoming more like Latin America.

[bayviews]

Originally Posted by hudkina

How? Only 1.7% of Seattle's white population lives in a neighborhood that is within a 60/40 range, white or black. That's not mixing... That's showing that Seattle doesn't have a significant black population and without a significant black population, you're not going to see the large-scale black neighborhoods that you see in cities with actual black populations.

In some respects, not having a large African American population has created more opportunities for inclusion than we've seen in places with large Black concentrations. Seattle has never had a large Black population. However, Seattle had an African American mayor in the 1990s & an African American King County Executive. Washington State also had a Chinese American Governor.

[cmj2k2]

Detroit could benefit from Permaculture and local food markets, with all that open green space.. and plenty of rain.