daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Liverpool Metro Area

Liverpool Metro Area 'Scouse Scrapers for both sides of the Mersey



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 17th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #41
Gareth
Keltlandia
 
Gareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,880
Likes (Received): 65

Yeah, when it finally arrives. It seems that as soon as it's on the horizon, the launch date gets put back again. I believe it's Summer 2014 for Pay & Go now.

However, I believe we'll be able to obtain them in the next few months (they say Spring) for preloaded tickets such as Saveaways. Can't wait, personally.
Gareth no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 17th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #42
tomo90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 4,782
Likes (Received): 923

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
You can do the same in Liverpool with Saveaways! All bus operators, Merseyrail, National Rail and ferries! Last I used it, it was cheaper than an Arriva day rider too! Hopefully the Walrus will unify this even better.
Shut the front door!
tomo90 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #43
Pablo Diablo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: European Union
Posts: 1,343
Likes (Received): 233

Ok so here's the land/floor plan of the terraced townhouse I designed. Please bear in mind that I'm not a designer or architect so there's bound to be tonnes wrong with this!

[img]http://i45.************/2sbmus7.jpg[/img]
Small plot (6m x 15m) version.
(For comparison, a house on Madryn Street is roughly a 4.5m x 15m plot)



[img]http://i46.************/t5ncd5.jpg[/img]
Bigger plot (6m x 20m) version.
The building is identical. The only differences are the lengthening of the back garden by 2m and the addition of a small front garden and driveway.



Smaller and cheaper three bedroom versions can be created by removing the attic level.


The idea is that external design can be varied for each cluster of streets to create some diversity and variance. My chosen style would be based on these Edwardian houses in Aigburth. Only difference is there would be a window in the roof for the master bedroom.
Pablo Diablo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #44
Gareth
Keltlandia
 
Gareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,880
Likes (Received): 65

Looks fine to me. It should be appreciated that we, in this country, live in the smallest houses in Europe, on average. Most of us could do with a bit more space but that shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor planning, wasteful land use and dramatically lowering density.

And don't buy into this falsehood that we're so overcrowded. The Netherlands would be a better fit for the tag 'overcrowded' yet they manage to both keep higher densities in urban areas and somehow have larger and probably better quality homes, on average, than we do.
Gareth no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #45
Dreamer
Let the Jam decide
 
Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: LIVERPOOL!
Posts: 1,986
Likes (Received): 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingle All The Way View Post
Pablo you are so despondant all the time. That new house you posted looks alright. You constantly describe things as being council houses when they are not, Is council house an insult in your vernacular? The Welsh streets is a no go wasteland at the moment. There are loads of areas in Liverpool with dense terraced streets, I live in one. They are not all being replaced. Of course Liverpool can be a vibrant European city without the Welsh Streets.
Sorry Dingle they do look like council houses and are not desirable to people who have a choice. They are ugly and devoid of any local context or character. You only have to see them in person to understand. They do not respect or work with or fit in to the grand dense houses of the area. As Pablo posted theses houses will not do anything to turn the area around and into a vibrant and positive and productive neighbourhood it should be.
__________________
Liber8
Dreamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #46
thecityofgold
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,836
Likes (Received): 318

These days the term 'council house', for most people, means housing for people who can't afford anything else. It didn't start out like that, but that's what is has become.

All the plans and renders for the Welsh Streets would fit into the category as being for people who can't afford anything else. They aren't going to pull in people who are able to choose, and therefore they will not improve the area in the longer term.

Which is a shame as the area has a lot going for it in terms of history and proximity to town / parks.
thecityofgold no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #47
buggedboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,765
Likes (Received): 3036

Whilst we are talking about plans, does anyone else keep having trouble with the planning explorer. After running a search, it constantly says that the results have expired, usually after browsing only 1/2 pages. This happens ALL the time for me, on different computers.

Anyone else get the same problem?
__________________
TOTAL ESTIMATED VALUE OF REGENERATION PROJECTS ON SITE IN LIVERPOOL C.R. AS OF 7TH DECEMBER 2014: £2.94bn.
buggedboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #48
Pablo Diablo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: European Union
Posts: 1,343
Likes (Received): 233

I'm glad some of you agree with me
I honestly think the city and, more importantly, the residents deserve far better than what they've been offered. But I guess it was a choice between that or nothing
Pablo Diablo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #49
baias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: live in a beautiful over 1800 ft high valley in the woodlands some 30 miles from bilbao
Posts: 2,912
Likes (Received): 1042

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
Looks fine to me. It should be appreciated that we, in this country, live in the smallest houses in Europe, on average. Most of us could do with a bit more space but that shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor planning, wasteful land use and dramatically lowering density.

And don't buy into this falsehood that we're so overcrowded. The Netherlands would be a better fit for the tag 'overcrowded' yet they manage to both keep higher densities in urban areas and somehow have larger and probably better quality homes, on average, than we do.

but over here, in the basque country, most families live in 700-750 sq feet apartments: kitchen, 2 bathrooms if one is lucky enough, living room, two bedrooms...of course no garden, no patio,....as far as I know Uk homes are bigger, without any doubt
baias no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #50
Gareth
Keltlandia
 
Gareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,880
Likes (Received): 65

The Basque Country maybe but Spain taken as an average, you'll find UK homes are smaller. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone here has smaller homes than everyone there and there'll be someone living in a mansion in the UK compared to someone living in an old townhouse in the Basque Country.
Gareth no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #51
Howie_P
Registered User
 
Howie_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 2,277
Likes (Received): 78

Quote:
Post-Pathfinder scheme in Liverpool slammed
26 February, 2013 | By Richard Waite


The Welsh Street proposals for Plus Dane


The Welsh Street proposals for Plus Dane


Cowcross Street, Liverpool

Campaigners have hit out at new plans which would see ‘Pathfinder-style demolitions’ of hundreds of terraced homes in Liverpool’s Welsh Streets area

The £15 million scheme submitted by Arup and Triangle Architects for housing association Plus Dane will create 150 new homes and see a swathe of existing buildings flattened.

Most of the homes were emptied in 2005 as part of Labour’s controversial £2.2 billion Pathfinder housing renewal programme which was scrapped after billions of pounds of Housing Market Renewal Funding was pulled in 2010.

A year later, in November 2011, the coalition government’s housing Minister Grant Shapps told Parliament ‘the era of large scale demolition was over’. However Clem Cecil, director of SAVE Britain’s Heritage believes that with the potential loss of ten streets of homes this pledge has been abandoned.

She said: ‘Here we are, in 2013, in the teeth of a financial and housing crisis, with a top down, government funded scheme that continues clearance of hundreds of homes, using unlawfully allocated money, instead of allowing local firms and families the chance to step in and do them up.

‘After SAVE’s High Court victory, ministers cannot simply wash their hands of this case. Pathfinder-style demolitions have to stop.’

Jon Moorhouse of Liverpool-based architects Constructive Thinking who has come up with alternative plans to re-use the terraces said: ‘These houses are structurally reasonable. They have value.

‘Where this new scheme fails is that it doesn’t address the potential for sustainability when renovating an entire area.’

Jonathan Brown, director of Liverpool regeneration planning consultancy Share the City, said: ‘You have to question the actual and opportunity cost of this scheme. A 60 per cent drop in inner city density just repeats the errors of managed decline. £20 million has already been spent to acquire and empty most of the 490 properties. Now £15million is allocated for Plus Dane Group to rebuild just 150. So for its £35million the public has purchased a net loss of around 280 homes - with each new build soaking up over £230,000 all in.

‘That’s serious money to blow in a housing and financial crisis.’


The Welsh Street proposals for Plus Dane

Nick Johnson, formerly of Urban Splash which successfully reworked aging terraced houses in Salford, agreed: ‘My greatest worry is that the Victorian terrace, which has proved by many including Urban Splash to be so robust, versatile and popular, will be replaced by bland mediocrity that will erode distinction, identity and history in one fell swoop.

‘Surely this can’t be defined as ‘progress’ by anyone’s measure.’

Plus Dane insists that 37 terraced properties, including Ringo Starr’s birthplace on Madryn Street will be spared and refurbished – although not until the planning application is approved.

The housing association also claims it has the support of the local community for its plans which include some low rise bungalow type homes.

A spokeswoman said: ‘Following extensive consultation with local residents, the plans have received significant support from the community living in the area, with more than 70 per cent of residents in favour of the proposals.’

She added: ‘A full Environmental Impact Assessment has been carried out to examine the impact of the development plans for the Welsh Streets, which provides strong and robust evidence for the impacts the scheme will have for the area.’
Source: Architects Journal
Howie_P no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #52
Moropool
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 638
Likes (Received): 213

There are some are houses just on the way to st Michael's station... Replacements of the terraces there...


I can't say how great I think they are... If anybody has pictures they should post them.
Moropool no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #53
Pablo Diablo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: European Union
Posts: 1,343
Likes (Received): 233

Jon Moorhouse, Jonathan Brown and Nick Johnson are my new heroes

£35 million to lose 280 homes, destroy tradition, history and social fabric, tear up communities and further the managed decline (excellent description - thanks Jonathan!) of inner Liverpool
Pablo Diablo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #54
Dingle All The Way
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 832
Likes (Received): 140

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moropool View Post
There are some are houses just on the way to st Michael's station... Replacements of the terraces there...


I can't say how great I think they are... If anybody has pictures they should post them.
If you mean Dalmeny street you can see them on google maps if you zoom in. Street view shows what was ther before. An improvment in the main but they should not have knocked down the old shop building or whatever it was at the top of the road.
These houses have a car parking space inside them. Not a garage, a driveway thing where the living room should be. I just think that's going to far for the sake of a car. I don't like cars. I know they're pretty useful things but they have ruined everything in a few short decades.
Dingle All The Way no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #55
baias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: live in a beautiful over 1800 ft high valley in the woodlands some 30 miles from bilbao
Posts: 2,912
Likes (Received): 1042

Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
Jon Moorhouse, Jonathan Brown and Nick Johnson are my new heroes

£35 million to lose 280 homes, destroy tradition, history and social fabric, tear up communities and further the managed decline (excellent description - thanks Jonathan!) of inner Liverpool
liverpool has a historic opportunity ahead, the recover it`s inner city as an area for people to live, work and play. and it needs density. the city`s inner ring must be re populated, there must be a flow a natural path for people to walk, cycle or travel from the increasingly robust central area to the suburbs...no more doghnut effect!!...

regrads from ultra snowy basque country!!
baias no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #56
Dreamer
Let the Jam decide
 
Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: LIVERPOOL!
Posts: 1,986
Likes (Received): 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by baias View Post

liverpool has a historic opportunity ahead, the recover it`s inner city as an area for people to live, work and play. and it needs density. the city`s inner ring must be re populated, there must be a flow a natural path for people to walk, cycle or travel from the increasingly robust central area to the suburbs...no more doghnut effect!!...

regrads from ultra snowy basque country!!
Sadly it won't happen, too many fights the council has to win at any cost and at the detriment of the city and its people. The plus Dane houses are rubbish and council house looking, nothing pleasing or architecturally interesting or bold or new, just the same ole shit as normal = no new blood in the area.
__________________
Liber8
Dreamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #57
buggedboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,765
Likes (Received): 3036

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moropool View Post
There are some are houses just on the way to st Michael's station... Replacements of the terraces there...


I can't say how great I think they are... If anybody has pictures they should post them.
They are great aren't they? I'd swap my Victorian terrace for one of those in a heartbeat.

They didn't replace any housing though, only some derelict workshops (as mentioned).
__________________
TOTAL ESTIMATED VALUE OF REGENERATION PROJECTS ON SITE IN LIVERPOOL C.R. AS OF 7TH DECEMBER 2014: £2.94bn.
buggedboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #58
scouse1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 530
Likes (Received): 319

From BBC Liverpool today...

Liverpool's Welsh Streets plan faces Pickles scrutiny

Some local tenants say they are delighted with the plans

A £15m regeneration plan for Liverpool's Welsh Streets has stalled hours after councillors gave the go-ahead to build new homes.

The council planning committee backed a plan on Tuesday to build more than 150 new homes, demolish up to 440 homes and refurbish 37 houses.

But Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has frozen the plan while he decides whether to hold a public inquiry.

Mayor of Liverpool Joe Anderson urged Mr Pickles to let the scheme proceed.

Mr Pickles' decision came after representations from campaigners opposing demolition.

A Department for Communities and Local Government spokesman said: "The department has received representations asking for this application to be called-in.

"We have issued an Article 25 notification on this planning application while we assess whether or not to do so, so we can give the matter proper consideration."

But Mr Anderson said the decision should be made locally.

"The local community have said in no uncertain terms what they want in the Welsh Streets and as mayor I have listened to them in progressing these proposals," he said.

"They are fed up with constant unnecessary delays which are stopping them having the good quality homes they deserve," Mr Anderson added.

Irene Milson, chair of the Welsh Streets Tenants' Association said they had waited 10 years for the decision.
'Managed decline'

However Clem Cecil, director of Save Britain's Heritage (Save) said the organisation wanted to save more homes from demolition.

The campaign owns a house in one of the streets where a resident has spent more than £3,000 on renovating the property.

Another local campaigner, Jonathan Brown of Share Our City said: "If it goes through, the application will represent the triumph of managed decline over real regeneration.

"There will be up to 300 fewer homes and no local shops or businesses on the site."

A spokeswoman for the housing association Plus Dane said any delay to the scheme "would seriously jeopardise the funding available".

The social landlord could lose 50% of its funding for the project from the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) as the job must be completed by March 2015.

The Secretary of State has up to three weeks to decide whether to hold a public inquiry, which could delay the project by six to 12 months.

Thirty-seven houses will be restored including 9 Madryn Street - birthplace of former Beatle Ringo Starr.

The regeneration will also see 280 houses demolished in the first phase, ending 10 years of consultation. A second phase would see a further 160 homes demolished.

Of all the houses included on the site, 40 will be retained. These include the refurbishment of 37 terraced properties - 16 of them on Madryn Street, five on High Park Street and 16 on Kelvin Grove.

Link to article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-23431023
scouse1980 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #59
scouse1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 530
Likes (Received): 319

Whilst peeved that this little ghostlike pocket is being left to rot, I've always hoped the old terraces could be retained and modernised. Remember the Georgian Quarter was threatened with demolition in the 80s? I'd hate to think the demolition of the Welsh Streets would be regretted in the future, these houses might be as architecturally important in 2050 as the Georgian properties are now! Once they're gone, they're gone forever, so all of these delays, however inconvenient and distressing might be a blessing...
__________________

Paul D liked this post
scouse1980 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #60
the golden vision
Registered User
 
the golden vision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,816
Likes (Received): 1307

Quote:
Originally Posted by scouse1980 View Post
Whilst peeved that this little ghostlike pocket is being left to rot, I've always hoped the old terraces could be retained and modernised. Remember the Georgian Quarter was threatened with demolition in the 80s? I'd hate to think the demolition of the Welsh Streets would be regretted in the future, these houses might be as architecturally important in 2050 as the Georgian properties are now! Once they're gone, they're gone forever, so all of these delays, however inconvenient and distressing might be a blessing...
That's news to me. Can you supply some evidence?
__________________
'The Only Wealth is Life'
the golden vision no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu