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Old April 5th, 2017, 10:18 PM   #41
libbrit
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I only hope one of the first things the new mayor does is to popularise a more memorable name for the whole set up.

Greater Liverpool would be my preference
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Old April 5th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #42
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for all their importance, buying raw materials do represent a very reduced percentage of total uk imports, a country where manufacturing represents about 12% of total gdp or so. As the first industrial power in history the Uk has also been the first to deindustrialise and today Britainīs strenght lies elsewhere, in banking, insurance services, financials, arts, culture, sports, architecture, software, education, TV, publishing, 20% of the worldīs top 100 universities are british, design as well as state of the art, world class electronics, aerospace, pharma etc...the country is the worldīs 2nd largest exporter of services and its surplus is massive

nothing to fear really, you just add this structural strenght to the solid values of the british state, the rule of law and a historic lack of violent, terrifying sociopolitical earthquake events, such as those hitting a continent prone of massacres, violence, revolutions, wars and nazism, and have a pretty good looking future

let others work in boring washing machine plants until they die while the world continues to learn and speak english, flocks to the west end or liverpool to enjoy the latest shows, the best museums and parks, classical music concerts and operas and do some shopping as well

nothing but the mighty forces of nature can stop britainīs centuries long intrinsic ingenuity and capacity to reinvent herself...something pretty much feared over the channel by protestant and catholic countries alike

their disrespectful, ugly reaction to brexit, which is a simple, fair, democratic self determination exercise by the people, is just a showcase of their fears, lack of democratic values, lack of respect to democratic values and lack of understanding of what democracy is, which is not something to be surprised of when not to long ago they were acclaiming in their streets and squares the most criminal political leadership the world has ever witnessed
A positive outlook and not far fromthe truth. Alas, people within and without are determined to link Brexit to little more than Trumpesq nativism and racism, which is ironic as every poll taken of peoples reasons for voting out has put Democracy far and away above immigration in the priorities, and polls since the vote havealso shown a marked increase in peoples positivity toward immigration.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 10:41 PM   #43
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I only hope one of the first things the new mayor does is to popularise a more memorable name for the whole set up.

Greater Liverpool would be my preference
My preference would be for this term as well but I would go one step further by renaming the boroughs that make up the Liverpool City Region. I would get rid of the word Metropolitan Borough and rename it to Liverpool Borough. So the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral would become Liverpool Borough of Wirral etc. This could even go further for example in having Liverpool Borough of Wallasey, Liverpool Borough of Birkenhead, Liverpool Borough of Bootle. If people were given a choice on this I do believe the latter would be more popular as here yes the term Liverpool is being used (which i'm sure the usual type of people would object to) however the towns themselves would be a lot more visible in using the major town name of the area and not being lost in borough names such as Wirral, Sefton, Knowsley. Lets face it more people will have heard of the likes of Birkenhead, Bootle etc and will know they are within the Liverpool area, yet people will usually struggle to place Sefton and the Wirral.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:51 AM   #44
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I find with Granada Reports, it depends who is reporting/presenting. I have heard Tony and Lucy refer to it as the Liverpool City Region although they have said Mayor for Merseyside too.

I did notice today that a presenter I have never seen before at lunch time referred to an incident in Liverpool as on Merseyside which I found stupid.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 01:09 AM   #45
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Maybe I'm getting old and hidebound, but some of the ideas on here are so off the wall that they suggest some sort of political cabin fever setting in. So we have people arguing that widespread deindustrialisation is a good thing, even though it has destroyed large parts of Britain (and which has not done Liverpool any good, wiping out the extraordinary efforts made in the city either side of the war to create a manufacturing base where there simply hadn't been one). We have others arguing for a Tory vote, even though the party as a whole has drifted so far to the right that it has disappeared over the horizon, and is pursuing a vindictive, incompetent and corrupt agenda which is making most people in Liverpool poorer (and I'm including the whole working and middle class within that, not just the disabled, destitute etc). Labour hasn't done much for this city, but voting Tory instead is like injecting yourself with smallpox in the hope that it will cure you of bronchitis.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:27 PM   #46
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Maybe I'm getting old and hidebound, but some of the ideas on here are so off the wall that they suggest some sort of political cabin fever setting in. So we have people arguing that widespread deindustrialisation is a good thing, even though it has destroyed large parts of Britain (and which has not done Liverpool any good, wiping out the extraordinary efforts made in the city either side of the war to create a manufacturing base where there simply hadn't been one). We have others arguing for a Tory vote, even though the party as a whole has drifted so far to the right that it has disappeared over the horizon, and is pursuing a vindictive, incompetent and corrupt agenda which is making most people in Liverpool poorer (and I'm including the whole working and middle class within that, not just the disabled, destitute etc). Labour hasn't done much for this city, but voting Tory instead is like injecting yourself with smallpox in the hope that it will cure you of bronchitis.


Homeopathy involves ingesting some of that which you hope to be cured of.

Voting Labour has never got Liverpool anywhere. It’s a shame that Esther McVey was hounded and abused out of politics. I think she would have made a decent City Region Mayor - and she seemed to be well thought of in government circles too; which would have been a good thing for the city, I think. Steve Rotherham is never going to win friends and influence people at a national level.

It’s a shame there couldn’t have been a charismatic independent.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 12:52 PM   #47
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The Tories in power in London means that a great shower of barstools are in control - sure. As Liverpool is a poor city, it suffers more than most when we have a government cutting council funding, benefits for the poorest and so on.

However, the national picture and what applies specifically to Liverpool aren't quite the same thing. BI is right that there are unfashionable parts of the country where the people vote Tory from one decade to the next that themselves are ignored by the government in London. Generally, this applies to the east of England.

If we did have at least a few more marginals and a more diverse political representation locally I do believe however it would be more difficult for our metropolis's interests to be neglected as absolutely they are.

Put it this way, while as I say no fan of the Tories, either the cynical crew in power down south or the awful lace-curtain snobs that constitute the local council representation they raise from parts of the Wirral, Crosby and Formby, it would be better for greater Liverpool if the tough, capable and articulate Esther McVey were taking over as metro mayor in a month's time rather than Mayor Beatles MacMophead, MP for the constituency of Liverpool Football Club.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #48
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It's during debates like this when I feel that I have entered a parallel universe.

'Tough, capable and articulate'? She is an irritating, talentless stooge who was put into a politically toxic role to help protect that odious hypocrite Duncan Shit. Given her obvious enthusiasm in that role for making difficult lives more difficult, I can't really see her having made life any better for Liverpool's people.

And she wasn't hounded or abused out of politics. She was voted out, having become a particularly unpopular representative of what is (rightly) a stunningly unpopular party in this part of the world.

The last time a Tory did anything for this area, he was called Heseltine, and even that was, if not a drop in the ocean of misery his party imposed, then a pretty small cupful.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 01:07 PM   #49
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voting Tory instead is like injecting yourself with smallpox in the hope that it will cure you of bronchitis.
Im not a habitual tory voter, but i have to point this out.

Such knee jerk tribalism does Liverpool no favours. What has 30 years of Labour gotten Liverpool? Or Lib Dem councils? Specifically what has it gotten us that a Tory council or a phalanx of Tory MPs wouldnt have gotten us? If anyone can give me an answer to that beyond "Boo Tories! Rich Mans Party! Anti Liverpool Party!", id be grateful.

The simple reality is, The Conservatives are averaging 15 point leads in the polls, and a fair whack of their improved support is coming in the north of England (and, counter-intuitive to the accepted narrative, Scotland), and though times may be strange and politics is up in the air, that isnt for nothing. You say above that the Tories are for the rich and a vote for the tories makes us poorer? Explain that to the millions taken out of income tax altogether? Did the Labour party ever do that? You reference the treatment of the disabled, and whilst there is a lot of criticism to be had, you fail to mention that the main culprit, Atos, was a creation of Labour, not the tories.

Are the Tories wonderful? Probably not. Are they the moustache twirling super villains of political partisans nightmares, who have a morning meeting every day to discuss which section of the poor and downtrodden they can victimise today? No. If they were, they wouldnt be the most successful political party in British history, currently in possession of an unexpected parliamentary majority that no pollster predicted, and with a Prime Minister who could win an election any moment she called it, to such a degree they would push the now irredeemable Labour party on the final road to oblivion.

I see that, and ive never voted for them once. Yet.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #50
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If the task is to shake things up and make it less of a sure-fire bet, in order to get the political classes to start municipally coughing up in exchange for our co-operation, then simply voting for the person most likely to come second is the task at hand.

I find it very unlikely that is going to be a tory, in fact I would expect that tory voters will look at it from this perspective and expect many of them to switch their vote tactically.

As for the person themselves, she took a job that would inevitably go down badly at home and give her opponents a clear angle. I find it hard to believe that this couldn't have been realised by those that gave her the job, and have wondered whether they simply wanted her gone. If they did, then that's obviously a plus point for her. However, in terms of her actually taking the job I feel that it was either a heck of a risk to take or the risk didn't occur to her. The plus point, if it existed, comes nowhere close to making up for that.

On top of that, I get the impression that even many tory voters agree that what's going on with sanctions and disabilities is wrong. I don't know how anyone could take such a job with a clear conscience, unless they were planning to put a stop to it.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #51
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Im not a habitual tory voter, but i have to point this out.

Such knee jerk tribalism does Liverpool no favours. What has 30 years of Labour gotten Liverpool? Or Lib Dem councils? Specifically what has it gotten us that a Tory council or a phalanx of Tory MPs wouldnt have gotten us? If anyone can give me an answer to that beyond "Boo Tories! Rich Mans Party! Anti Liverpool Party!", id be grateful.

The simple reality is, The Conservatives are averaging 15 point leads in the polls, and a fair whack of their improved support is coming in the north of England (and, counter-intuitive to the accepted narrative, Scotland), and though times may be strange and politics is up in the air, that isnt for nothing. You say above that the Tories are for the rich and a vote for the tories makes us poorer? Explain that to the millions taken out of income tax altogether? Did the Labour party ever do that? You reference the treatment of the disabled, and whilst there is a lot of criticism to be had, you fail to mention that the main culprit, Atos, was a creation of Labour, not the tories.

Are the Tories wonderful? Probably not. Are they the moustache twirling super villains of political partisans nightmares, who have a morning meeting every day to discuss which section of the poor and downtrodden they can victimise today? No. If they were, they wouldnt be the most successful political party in British history, currently in possession of an unexpected parliamentary majority that no pollster predicted, and with a Prime Minister who could win an election any moment she called it, to such a degree they would push the now irredeemable Labour party on the final road to oblivion.

I see that, and ive never voted for them once. Yet.

Criticism of one political party does not imply support for another. How do you know that I vote Labour, or ever have voted for them? I could assume that, from your support for the May regime, you're a deluded, snobbish, masochistic (if your income is below six figures) social-climbing sycophant, but it would be grossly unfair of me to make such a judgment of someone based solely on a few comments they've made about political parties.

I read your post with interest. The only policy you can actually find to praise - raising the income tax threshold - was the sole concession that the Lib Dems managed to extract from the Tories in return for propping up a minority government with well under 40% of the vote.

Have you actually been in this country since 2010? Seen the most prolonged fall in real-terms wages since the Napoleonic wars? Watched public services fall apart? Appreciated the ongoing project of letting rich individuals and corporations out of paying any tax, while the share of the tax burden imposed on ordinary individuals and small businesses becomes higher and higher? Witnessed an incompetent and vindictive economic policy hold the country in recession, outside wonderful, precious London, the biggest and bentest casino in the world? Noticed how, as part of the biggest experiment in political and exonomic gerrymandering since pre-1969 Dungannon, Labour supporting cities like Liverpool are being stripped of their money (and, in Liverpool's case, many of its public sector jobs, and much of its productive economy) while the Tory shires and suburbs of the south are stuffed with taxpayers' cash?

You ask why people vote for the Tories if their chief mission is to grind the poor into the dirt. Have you noticed that a lot of British people actually like to watch their social 'inferiors' being ground into the dirt? Why do you think there is so.mich poverty porn on TV and in the tabloids, and why empathy no longer appears to be a national characteristic? There is a reason why you still hear the phrase 'tuppence looking down on ha'ney', 46 years after decimalisation.

The rest of your post seems to be 'they look like winners, so let's support them', despite me having pointed out that voting Tory actually does little to help even traditionally Tory seats outside the south-east. Would you vote for Trump, or Putin, just because lots of other people do? With this level of political analysis, and media bias in their favour approaching North Korean levels, no wonder the Tories can count on so many people's votes.

Last edited by B&I; April 6th, 2017 at 02:26 PM.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #52
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It's during debates like this when I feel that I have entered a parallel universe.

'Tough, capable and articulate'? She is an irritating, talentless stooge who was put into a politically toxic role to help protect that odious hypocrite Duncan Shit. Given her obvious enthusiasm in that role for making difficult lives more difficult, I can't really see her having made life any better for Liverpool's people.

And she wasn't hounded or abused out of politics. She was voted out, having become a particularly unpopular representative of what is (rightly) a stunningly unpopular party in this part of the world.
Complete and full agreement with everything posted above!
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #53
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What has 30 years of Labour gotten Liverpool?
I stopped reading your post after this. Trumpism is not confined to this side of the Atlantic. May, 2008 was only 9 years ago.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:24 PM   #54
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If the task is to shake things up and make it less of a sure-fire bet, in order to get the political classes to start municipally coughing up in exchange for our co-operation, then simply voting for the person most likely to come second is the task at hand.

I find it very unlikely that is going to be a tory, in fact I would expect that tory voters will look at it from this perspective and expect many of them to switch their vote tactically.

That sentiment I understand, and agree with. While I think that many of the problems blamed on local politicians stem, at root, from the poor calibre of people in senior executive positions in our local authorities, I agree that it's not a good idea to let any party feel it has exclusive rights to local power, without doing anything to earn them.

Problem is that that is the attitude that the Tory Party has at present at a national level, chivvied on by the whole 'if they're successful that must mean they're good' attitude. If the Tories somehow won the mayoral position, their local chief-of-Bantustan would have no more clout in Whitehall than a Labour or Lib Dem equivalent, and they would use it to pretend that their national-level.policies qere popular in, and right for, Liverpool, when anyone who has been living in this city, rather than in a sensory deprivation tank, knows that not to be the case.

I'm tired of local politics in Liverpool (and elsewhere in Britain) becoming a proxy for the national.party struggle. Voting Tory, which would be takwn as a vote for a national political agenda which is inimical to the interests of all but a handful of Liverpolitans, is not going to get us out of that. I'd like to see an independent (in all senses) mayor, who could overcome party divisions, and the sclerosis that afflicts the senior management of our local authorities, in favour of what is best for this city and its people.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:28 PM   #55
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It's not something I'm considering, thankfully I don't think they will occupy second place!!

If polls emerge later which suggest otherwise we can talk about the relative morality then. It's too shuddersome to think about unless I really have to!
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:44 PM   #56
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I stopped reading your post after this. Trumpism is not confined to this side of the Atlantic. May, 2008 was only 9 years ago.
So in other words, you decline to address the point, probably because you don't have an answer.

So I'll rephrase the question.

What has predominantly electing Labour councils and MPs got us that electing someone else wouldn't have? Would a Conservative council, considering it would presumably consist, just like Labour, of locals with a sense of civic pride , have rejected the Capital of Culture bid, for example, purely on the basis that they are conservatives? If so why?

Answer that if you wish, or just stick to throwing accusations of 'Trumpism', whatever you mean by that.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 03:05 PM   #57
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So in other words, you decline to address the point, probably because you don't have an answer.
The lie you originally posted; "What has 30 years of Labour gotten Liverpool"? was completely unambiguous, explicit and direct. There was, IMO, a deliberate attempt to misrepresent. That is what I meant by "Trumpism".
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Old April 6th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #58
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I stopped reading your post after this. Trumpism is not confined to this side of the Atlantic. May, 2008 was only 9 years ago.
What is it with your desire to bring Donald Trump into every conversation about politics in the UK? The closest we have to him would be Farage and not only does he have absolutely no chance of getting in a similar position, but I'd also deem him less extreme than Trump. If you want to discuss American politics, you're in the wrong place.
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No, your breath and it smells worse than my sceptic tank. You should brush with shite, it might make your breath smell better.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #59
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The lie you originally posted; "What has 30 years of Labour gotten Liverpool"? was completely unambiguous, explicit and direct. There was, IMO, a deliberate attempt to misrepresent. That is what I meant by "Trumpism".
So you dont have an answer. Fair enough
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Old April 6th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #60
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What is it with your desire to bring Donald Trump into every conversation about politics in the UK? The closest we have to him would be Farage and not only does he have absolutely no chance of getting in a similar position, but I'd also deem him less extreme than Trump. If you want to discuss American politics, you're in the wrong place.
Quite. Not only has he left active politics, but his party is in a state of implosion with defections galore and almost no money.
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