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Old February 17th, 2017, 04:00 PM   #16141
rakcancer
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Interesting visualization of southern bypass of Warsaw (S2).
Unfortunately in polish only:

https://www.facebook.com/Wilanow.Dzi...2404103469921/
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Old February 28th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #16143
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The government is going to cancel the tender for construction of S14 motorway, which is the western part of motorway ringroad around Łódź.
The offers turned out to be higher than GDDKiA's estimate. But the estimate was magically lowered within the last year... probably to get a convenient excuse for cancelling the tender.
This is what happens when you vote for populists who fritter public money by giving it away in order to buy support...

We'll see what will happen with other projects. At the moment we are still waiting for the decision about DK25 - bypass of Inowrocław. The offers were opened 2 months ago and they are slightly above GDDKiA's estimate.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 04:37 PM   #16144
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They say they want to make a new tender first for the project, and then a new one for the construction...

Having the project ready.

Well, social benefits seems to be more important for our government than investment in road infrastructure. That's all.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 05:14 PM   #16145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
They say they want to make a new tender first for the project, and then a new one for the construction...

Having the project ready.

Well, social benefits seems to be more important for our government than investment in road infrastructure. That's all.
Let's wait and give them a few years and then judge whether road infrastructure improved. The other government had 8 years, let's wait another 7 years before we start jumping to conclusions. It is just not fair and yes, I would expect my government to look after it's citizens in every way ... that is what it's there for

One thing is guaranteed, this government will surely focus more on road investments in the east which the previous government neglected. They are determined to build the S-19 (Lithuania to Slovakia) which intends to connect the Baltics with Hungary and further south. The Via Baltica is to be completed as well (Lithuanian border to Warsaw).
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Old February 28th, 2017, 05:17 PM   #16146
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Yeap, this is a shift to the east as it was easy to predict after latest election results. There is nothing wrong with building S61 or S16 or S19 but cancelling so important and so advanced already S14? That is a shame.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #16147
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Especially taking into account that much money has been spent on S14 already.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #16148
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Meanwhile Łódź has the worst traffic congestion in Europe.

http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffici...EU&country=ALL
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Old February 28th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #16149
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I wouldn't say it's true - this result is caused by not entirely correct assumptions in the ranking. I would say, even Kraków is more congested than Łódź. But the problem of congestion nevertheless exists and it should be solved.

The main problems of the city seem to be:
- quite poor quality of the public transport (it's crowded and slow), especially concerning the trams
- a big part of the city (the eastern part) is divided by a railway line with too few roads crossing it (in a normal city there would be such a problem with a river, we don't have a river but we have a railway line instead)
- not really well-developed road network in the city - we don't have junctions in the city, until recently there was exactly two places with bridges/tunnels allowing to omit an intersection, now one of them got extended, but it doesn't help much since the cars get stuck in a jam at the first normal intersection after its end

Although since it's still usually much faster to travel within the city by car than by public transport, I wouldn't say it's really congested.

Lack of good connections with the highway ring is also a problem. The government should at least think about building a part of S14 allowing to bypass the Zgierz town. But the truth is that they won't do anything for Łódź since people living here support mostly the opposite political party. They have already taken from us an Airbus helicopter factory where helicopters for the Polish army were supposed to be constructed (they just broke a contract with Airbus for those helicopters).

The government is against Łódź and that's all.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 06:57 PM   #16150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Meanwhile Łódź has the worst traffic congestion in Europe.

http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffici...EU&country=ALL
Frankly I quite don't believe those data. City is crisscrossed by wide at least 2x2 roads many of which are 3x3 and additionally most of the city is conveniently reached by extensive tram network. Even when A1 motorway wasn't finished it was hard to get stuck like for example is happening in Bydgoszcz where during peak hour You can lose one hour trying to leave the city because everything is completely stuck
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Old February 28th, 2017, 07:28 PM   #16151
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There are places in Łódź where you can also lose one hour. Unless you know which streets at what time not to drive on.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #16152
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There's a couple of elements here that don't add to the usefulness.

Firstly, Łódź has the least additional time in the top 5, but as journeys are shorter, it upped the percentage more:
Łódź 46min per day average delay over fastest times
Bucharest 57min per day average delay over fastest times
Moscow 49min per day average delay over fastest times
Belfast 52min per day average delay over fastest times
Dublin 50min per day average delay over fastest times
Secondly, I'd imagine the decent roads of Łódź would mean that its very fast during quiet hours, exacerbating that delay calculation. Somewhere like London has a lot of roads where its hard to go fast even at 4am (with a few roads that are exceptions) masks going slow somewhat as its less of a percentage reduction in traffic speeds. Dropping from 50km/h to 25km/h is the same as 25km/h to 12.5km/h on TomTom, but the latter feels far more congested.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #16153
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I agree that London is likely significantly underrepresented due to the slow average travel times even during offpeak periods. TFL once stated that the average off-peak speed in London is 29 km/h (24 km/h during peak hours). That's probably worse than many cities during peak hour. In the Netherlands the threshold for the definition of motorway congestion is 50 km/h or lower over at least 2 kilometers.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 08:27 PM   #16154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Let's wait and give them a few years and then judge whether road infrastructure improved. The other government had 8 years, let's wait another 7 years before we start jumping to conclusions.
The road infrastructure will be improving, but it is a merit of the previous government. They left a well-functioning road construction machine, all the new government had to do was not to break it.
We can already conclude that in few years, when current constructions will finish, there will be a collapse in the sector of road construction.

Quote:
One thing is guaranteed, this government will surely focus more on road investments in the east which the previous government neglected. They are determined to build the S-19 (Lithuania to Slovakia) which intends to connect the Baltics with Hungary and further south. The Via Baltica is to be completed as well (Lithuanian border to Warsaw).
That's what they say, but so far these are only words, not actions. S19? It took them half a year to make a decision to ensure more money in a tender for design documentation of a short section of S19 south of Rzeszów. The tenders for S19 between Lublin and Rzeszów (launched by previous government, so the argument about "neglecting" is invalid) have been frozen for a year just like any other tenders. Via Baltica? A few months ago they promised that tenders for all remaining sections of S61 will be launched till the end of 2016 (BTW, they promised the same for A1). And what? In February they kindly launched two sections. 3 more to go, including the most important - Łomża bypass.

So yes, they do focus on road investments in the east, but only on talking about them.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 09:00 PM   #16155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Secondly, I'd imagine the decent roads of Łódź would mean that its very fast during quiet hours, exacerbating that delay calculation.
That's the case.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 01:15 AM   #16156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
The road infrastructure will be improving, but it is a merit of the previous government. They left a well-functioning road construction machine, all the new government had to do was not to break it.
We can already conclude that in few years, when current constructions will finish, there will be a collapse in the sector of road construction.
That isn't necessarily so bad though. PL has been very aggressive in building the most needed corridors. With everything "in the pipe" completed, there aren't so many major projects (at least nothing on the scale of A2, A4, A1, S8 etc etc).
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Old March 1st, 2017, 11:16 AM   #16157
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Still there is a lot to be done, because some regions don't have access to the motorway network. S10, S11, S12, S16 are all important but nowhere close to be completed.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 03:42 PM   #16158
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They should, at least, start adding the third lane on the most busy roads (like A2 Łódź-Warszawa, A1 Łódź bypass), because they are already overcrowded.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 04:18 PM   #16159
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When I asked on polish forum people that are deeply involved in related topic discussion why there is no 3rd lane build on A1 - Lodz bypass in first place, they answered that soon there will be S14 and problem will solve itself. There you go. Forget about S14. Now we have already overcrowded A1...
And there will be more cases like this for example S6 -Tricity bypass... no third lane and forget about another bypass, it will be canceled like S14 - that is my dark prediction...
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Old March 1st, 2017, 04:43 PM   #16160
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It seems adding the third lane on the A1 would be too expensive because it's made of concrete. It will make sense in 30 years, when the concrete will have to be renovated.

Why was it made of concrete, so that it would not be possible to add the third lane easily? Because the S14 was going to be built soon.

So PiS should continue with S14 instead of showing weird excuses. But they need money for 500+...
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