search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 17th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #2081
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,616
Likes (Received): 1307

Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
What? I don't get the first part at all, do you mean the Sakura and Mizuho's? They will never go any further than Shin-Osaka in my opinion, it would be too much hassle to get them in there and there is no space to have them turn around at Kyoto.
Also with only one quick change (or two if going between to lesser serviced stations) you can get between any two stations west of Tokyo is really excellent in my opinion.
What I'm saying is that adding another pair of tracks between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka would allow the Sakura and Mizuho services to terminate in Kyoto. While there might not be too many people all the way from Kyushu, it would relieve the other services on the Sanyo to an extent.

This certainly would not be enough to merit a new set of tracks on its own, but when you combine it with the Hokuriku services through to Shin-Osaka, then you start to get a case for a new route. The case for capacity from Hokuriku and the case for capacity from Kyushu and Sanyo are mutually supportive.

Quote:
The thing I'm saying is that there easily is space for up to 4 more trains/hour for the Hokuriku Shinkansen to squeeze in on that stretch on the Tokaido Shinkansen if they really wanted to, not 6.
Which is why I argued that there should be additional tracks.

Suppose that there are 4-5 trains per hour from Hokuriku. Then give 3-4 trains per hour from Kyushu a chance to terminate in Kyoto to provide better connectivity. And maybe two or three Kodama services from the Sanyo.

That's seven to twelve trains per hour that can use this new route.

And people WOULD ride the Kodama through to Kyoto to avoid dealing with the hassle of getting off of one train and boarding another-the transfer penalty.

Quote:
And also I doubt that we will see enough trains to completely fill the Tokaido Shinkansen, to leave absolutely no space what so ever for any additional trains between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka.
They only way that it could happen is if they cut both the Hikari and Kodama services from the Tokaido Shinkansen and only run Nozomi trains, which to be honest won't happen, there will be too much of an uproar from all the smaller towns along the line.
I think that it would be fewer Nozomi and many more Kodama trains that would fill up the Tokaido. That seems to be the plan once the Chuo Shinkansen is completed.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 18th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #2082
Sr.Horn
té con pastas member
 
Sr.Horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,919

NHK Documentary about Shinji Sogo "The Pioneer of Shinkansen":

__________________

phoenixboi08, stingstingsting liked this post
Sr.Horn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2017, 01:33 PM   #2083
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 719
Likes (Received): 254

In the end, the biggest problem for extending the Hokuriku Shinkansen beyond Kyoto to Shin-Osaka is that the Shinkansen line between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka is already running at capacity with Nozomi, Hikari and Kodama trains already running on the line.

Like I said earlier, Kyoto Station is well-connected with local trains traversing most of the entire Keihanshin region, what what JR West (local) and Kintetsu connections there and (likely) a future Hankyu connection there, also. Kyoto is important enough a destination that I feel the west end of the Hokuriku Shinkansen at Kyoto will still be quite viable--and it won't require the possibility of having to possibly quad-track the line between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka Station (with all its attendant land acquisition and construction costs).

Last edited by sacto7654; February 18th, 2017 at 11:42 PM. Reason: correct wording
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #2084
Faiyez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 0

If it can be done, why the heck not?
Faiyez no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2017, 07:04 PM   #2085
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,771
Likes (Received): 230

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
In the end, the biggest problem for extending the Hokuriku Shinkansen beyond Kyoto to Shin-Osaka is that the Shinkansen line between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka is already running at capacity with Nozomi, Hikari and Kodama trains already running on the line.
You are denying facts, aren't you. The Tokaido Shinkansen between Kyoto and Shin-Osaka is currently frequented by up to 11 train-pairs per hour on weekdays and 12 at the week-end. With 18 train-pairs per hour possible the line runs at 2/3 of its capacity on the section in question.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by flierfy; February 18th, 2017 at 07:22 PM.
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2017, 11:27 PM   #2086
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,616
Likes (Received): 1307

A) The Tokaido is almost certainly going to demand more service in the near future.

B) JR West will want to avoid the transfer penalty as much as possible.

I'm seeing a new pair of tracks to Shin-Osaka sometime in the next 30 years.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2017, 11:48 PM   #2087
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 719
Likes (Received): 254

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I'm seeing a new pair of tracks to Shin-Osaka sometime in the next 30 years.
It may not happen. Not if the plans of the Chūō Shinkansen terminating at Shin-Osaka Station come to fruition. That could make it possible to reduce "conventional" Shinkansen traffic between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka Station, which might actually allow the Hokuriku Shinkansen trains to run all the way to Shin-Osaka Station with the successor to the E7/W7 trainset.
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2017, 12:03 AM   #2088
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,616
Likes (Received): 1307

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
It may not happen. Not if the plans of the Chūō Shinkansen terminating at Shin-Osaka Station come to fruition. That could make it possible to reduce "conventional" Shinkansen traffic between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka Station, which might actually allow the Hokuriku Shinkansen trains to run all the way to Shin-Osaka Station with the successor to the E7/W7 trainset.

That is possible. However, I recall seeing plans to fill the extra capacity made available by the absence of Nozomi services by adding many more Kodama services. Its not as though there isn't desire for them.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:38 AM   #2089
bluemeansgo
Registered User
 
bluemeansgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 429
Likes (Received): 116

As far as I understand it, after the Chuo line comes online, there will be no more Nozomi between those stops. JR Central plans to move all express passengers onto the Maglev. This means that the Tokaido line will essentially turn into Hikari/Kodama service only.

In the end, we can pretty much assume JR West really wants its own set of tracks between Kyoto and Osaka and will push its case for its own tracks. If it has to travel on JR Central tracks between its two lines, it will have to negotiate with them. This means it doesn't have control of its own schedule and will have to use trainsets that JR Central approves, etc.

Simply put, Kyoto and Osaka statins are JR West domain, but with a JR Central line taking a lot of the traffic. I'm sure it wants the ability to run its own trains along its own tracks that it doesn't need to share.

Sure, it may in the end be forced to share the tracks along this corridor... but ideally, JR West doesn't want that.
bluemeansgo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:24 AM   #2090
stingstingsting
railover
 
stingstingsting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 195
Likes (Received): 28

If they join the Hokuriku Shinkansen tracks physically with the Tokaido Shinkansen tracks, I think that would be quite historic. As it is, the Shinkansen tracks north of Tokyo are not physically connected to the tracks going south.

This is a silly pipedream but I confess that I am fascinated to see this happen.
__________________
... enpixelating outer valley subsurface front faces ...
stingstingsting no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:26 AM   #2091
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,616
Likes (Received): 1307

I'm excited too, and a little voice keeps yelling, "It's not a pipe dream!!"
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu