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Old June 7th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #381
bolg
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Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
You're missing the point. In Spain there is 3000-3500 hrs of sun annually. In Poland: 1200-1500. That's why Poland never was, no ever will be, the main tourist destination. Full stop. Deal with it.
Honestly, for me it's the opposite. What keeps me from visiting Poland more is that pressuring inland summer heat. Gdansk with its ocean breeze is fine, but cities like Krakow are insanely warm. And it's not a dry heat either like in much of Spain.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #382
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One learns something every day (unfortunately I have never been to Wurzburg). I didn't know about that. I thought Wurzburg was something similar to Rothenburg.
I wish Wurzburg was like Rothenburg! I guess it depends what you expect. In Wurzburg they kept buildings low, with pitched roofs and small windows, more in keeping with what was there before, but it's pretty clear that they're post-war structures. The photo below is fairly typical. I don't think this is what I would call a good reconstruction. It's just providing a bland background that doesn't stand out and which showcases the more important buildings. The loss of Wurzburg was a disaster, and so late in the war. I think it was second only to Dresden as a Baroque city north of the Alps.

image hosted on flickr


http://www.flickr.com/photos/analox/6971656291/
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Old June 8th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #383
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For me, the biggest losses in Germany are:

- Dresden
- Frankfurt am Main
- Hildesheim & Braunschweig
- Würzburg
- Nuremberg
- Chemnitz
- Pforzheim
- Kassel

- Munich
- Hamburg
- Berlin
- Cologne
I'm glad you included Munich in this list. This great and grand city is far too often thought of as being relatively untouched by the Allied bombs, but this notion is far from true. The damage and loss was staggering.

I would add to the list the following heartbreaking losses:

Augsburg
Bremen
Dusseldorf
Hannover
Karlsruhe
Koblenz
Mainz


In terms of what "lost" means, Dresden has been a point of debate here because of the fantastic work being done in the NeuMarkt. However, while the NeuMarkt was perhaps the focal point of Dresden's architectural past, it was by no means the majority. The city very legitimately qualifies for a lost treasure because, in spite of the Neumarkt, all of Pragerstrasse, most of the Altmarkt, all of Johannstadt, Stiesen, and Friederichstadt, and the best parts of the Neustadt--gone and not being restored anytime soon.
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Old June 9th, 2013, 02:25 AM   #384
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Why doesn't anyone remember of Münster?
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Old June 9th, 2013, 09:41 AM   #385
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warsaw


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
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Old June 9th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #386
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Not sure if Nordhausen has been mentioned already. In the 19th century Victor Hugo grouped it with Nuremberg and Vitre in France as one of the places in Europe that been left almost untouched since the Middle Ages.

There's a video of pre-war Nordhausen on this Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....id=10464870513

Nordhausen was the location of the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp where around 20,000 inmates died. 75% of the town was destroyed during air-raids.
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Old June 9th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #387
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Thanks Wolfpaw, excellent point about Nordhausen and the film was fantastic. Nordhausen was definitely a jewel of medieval and baroque buildings with a sizeable population. It not only suffered vast and extensive damage, but lost over 20% of its population in the bombing raids as well.
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Old June 9th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #388
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Was anything rebuilt in Nordhausen?
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Old June 10th, 2013, 05:49 AM   #389
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Has Torun been mentioned???
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Old June 10th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #390
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Torun wasn't destroyed during WWII
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Old June 10th, 2013, 07:18 AM   #391
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No worries.
It's a little annoying to read you were cautioned about Poland, as I feel it is much safer than most western European nations. I don't want to sound controversial but Poland does not have any immigrant issues and for example, in its cities there are "no go" areas. Gun crime is very low when compared to western nations. Look at places like London or Paris and now Stockholm. I had a Bulgarian housemate a while back and he and his friends were robbed on the metro in Paris. They were very casual about it, like they did it every day. Personally, I would think twice about going to Paris on my own.
I think we've had this conversation on the forum before in more appropriate threads, but crime rate in Poland is among the lowest in Europe and the wiorld, full stop. But it may be true that some sleezy crooks target tourists so it may affect the overall perception. Dishonest travel industry types exist everywhere...you should watch the show "Scam City" to know what to avoid as a tourist in certain cities and anywhere frankly.

sorry for OT
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old June 10th, 2013, 07:51 AM   #392
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Was anything rebuilt in Nordhausen?
the old city center was rebuilt after Unification in 1990 with nice results, but just the center.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #393
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Torun wasn't destroyed during WWII
Not destroyed completely like most other mid-large German cities, but damaged partially. It faired much better than the lists above.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #394
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Torun wasn't a German city before WWII

Last edited by Oliszydlowski; June 10th, 2013 at 08:11 AM.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
Not destroyed completely like most other mid-large German cities, but damaged partially. It faired much better than the lists above.
Torun wasn't a German city. It was only occupied by Germany after the partitions in 1790's and during WWII. It always belonged to Poland.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 12:54 PM   #396
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Torun was lucky. It wasn't destroyed neither in 1939 nor afterwards. In 1945 Oberkommando der Wehrmacht attempted to make this city a Festung (stronghold), but the commander of the Festung decided to evacuate troops and somehow ran through two advancing Soviet armies (70th and the second-one-number-of-which-I-always-forget). Torun was therefore taken by the Soviet army nearly intact.

Almost all of the other cities of Województwo (Voivodship) Kujawsko-Pomorskie) were equally lucky: Bydgoszcz was affected by some damages in 1939-40 and 1945, but overall damages didn't exceed 10%.

Włocławek and Inowrocław were not destroyed in 1939 and in 1945 they were liberated swiftly.

The only unlucky city was Grudziądz, turned into Festung (stronghold) and assaulted by the Red Army after long siege (end Jan - 6th March 1945). It is estimated that 60% of the city was destroyed. Here are 27 photographs of severely damaged city centre (the article is in Polish, but arrows look the same in all languages in the world)

On the other hand, Grudziądz was rebuilt well. When I was visiting the city it didn't seem to me as a destroyed "lost" city. On the contrary, its historical centre looked good. Probably the most of destruction resulted from burns and the burnt houses must have been swiftly repaired.
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Last edited by Mruczek; June 10th, 2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #397
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You forgot about Malbork. The city was also destroyed including the Castle.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 03:41 PM   #398
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Malbork does not lies in Kujawsko-Pomorskie Voivodship.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #399
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Malbork does not lies in Kujawsko-Pomorskie Voivodship.
I know, but it is very close and it is one of the "Prussian" Gothic cities that was heavily damaged during WWII.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #400
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Why doesn't anyone remember of Münster?
Because by most measures, Münster was one of the best reconstruction works by far.
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