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Old March 21st, 2005, 04:11 PM   #41
Ozcan
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The way he expresses his disapproval of the mentality against skyscrapers, what did you think I was thinking

Last edited by Ozcan; March 21st, 2005 at 04:24 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 04:12 PM   #42
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Anyway, don't change the subject of this nice thread.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:47 PM   #43
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thanks guys
@ gm I am really happy and thankfull for everyone who is willing to "contribute" on this (and /or other threads ) and as you I do love this city and have the desire to see more improvements... but unfortunately it takes time (especialy in greece ) but I am very confident (and we can see it ) our city is changing and is continously improving. and is waiting to be discovered, and I will show the people here in this Forum how we see our city...

@ kuvvaci I thing asst31 explained about the particular avenue but if you have questions you are welcome

@ Ozcan maybe next time be more clear about that what you wanna say as you can see people can get the wrong conclusion and actualy leafs wanted only to "defend" my thread as he knows very well (he knows how big the avenue is ) about the efort to take this pictures ) (not to take in count the pics from gm and his effort which I really Appreciate to post his own pics here ) but because I know you didnt mean it bad be more precize with your answers/questions this should do the job
and again thanks guys
@ leafs thanks as always for your support
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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:59 PM   #44
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George, my man, thanks for the nice words and guys, we talk tomorrow. True, the 17-km long Kifissias Avenue connects the city centre with the northern suburbs. The Business centre is in the suburb of Maroussi which is the equivalent to Levent in Istanbul, as Kifissias Avenue is the equivalent of Buyukdere. More tomorrow, I have to catch the DVD rental store open to find a movie to see...
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Old March 21st, 2005, 11:49 PM   #45
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@Gm2263,


forgive my ignorance, are those the most important commercial areas in the country?
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 12:08 AM   #46
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Wow!!Nice work!!
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 12:17 AM   #47
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my small contribution (part II):


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Old March 22nd, 2005, 02:34 PM   #48
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Kifissias Avenue, the new developments and the Neratziotissa Station area

Well, well, well, by popular demand (for which I have anticipated and that's why I decided to go and take some pics last week, when the weather was very good ) here are some notes and pictures out of Kifissias Avenue and the Neratziotissa Station developments.

Long ago, I had posted a thread about Maroussi here, analysing its significance as the most important of the new Business Centres emerging in Athens, the other being on Syggrou Avenue towards the coastal suburbs, while we also see some scattered developments on the Intersection of Athinon and Kifissos (warning: different from Kifissias) Avenues too.

As mentioned earlier, Kifissias Avenue connects Ampelokipi, one of the central districts of Athens, where the first skyscrapers of Athens have been built during the mid - 70's including the Athens Tower, still the tallest building in Athens, with the northern suburbs.

Over the years, Kifissias Avenue which cuts though many suburbs, including (from South to the north) Psychikon, Chalandri, Maroussi (which is what interests us) and Kifissia (where the avenue changes its name and continues for another 5 km but not as a 3+3 lane avenue), became a boulevard which epitomises high-tech development, a trend that reached its apogee with the construction (1982) and renovation (2004) of the Athens Olympic Complex which is located in the adjacent area to Kifissias that once had many lignite extraction sites and now is known as "Kalogreza".

In all its length, Kifissias Avenue has many beautiful high-tech lowrise architecture to display with the exception of the Atrina Centre (1980) and the Greek Telecom Head Offices (1978). What geore has show us here is what this avenue of shopping centres and office buildings looks like at ground level, especially at night.

Now, the development of this Avenue received a further boost with the undertaking of the Olympic games, which aloowed for the construction of three new junctions, including the "cake" or the roundabout junction with the new main Athens ring road, namely, the Attica Road which connects the east (and the Athens new airport) with the West of Athens suburbia, while Kifissias connects the centre of Athens with the northern suburbs. As one understands, the cake and its adjacent Attica Road and Kifissias Avenue properties will receive skyrocketing commercial pressures, with the only burden being the building code and the aversion of almost every Athenian except me to the construction of tall buildings (we have the potential, but not the will ).

The pictures that follow, depict the new construction in the neighbourhood of the junction of Kifissias Avenue and Attica Road. To give you an understanding, the Attica Road is submerged for environmental protection purposes and also has the suburban rail in the middle. So, in the cake you have two major arterial roads AND a suburban rail station combined. Within some 500m distance to the west of the "cake", there is another big junction where you have the suburban rail meeting line 1 (green) of the Athens metro rail system, namely the increasingly important "Neratziotissa" Station.

My pictures that follow depict the situation in those 500 metres and, as one might expect, this is only the beginning

We will start from Neratziotissastation, some 500 metres to the west of the cake:


1. Upper deck of Neratziotissa Station looking towards the cake. We see a part of the Attica Road, where the rail lines of that occupy the themidsection of the road are clearly visible. To the far left of the picture, the 18-storey Greek Telecom (OTE) Head offices building is also visible:




2. Close-up at the OTE building:




3. Close-up at the Atrina centre from Neratziotissa (in reality it is located some 1km away)




4. Close-up at the Athens Olympic Stadium. For your information, the Neratziotissa stations was one of the main rail stations that served the Athens Olympic games. This is a rare view of the stadiumthat you certainly will not see in any city guides:




5. Attica Road and part of the Neratziotissa Station looking west




6. The Neratziotissa Station (you can understand now the size of both and how the whole complex looks like)




7. This shopping centre is under construction from Lambda development (a member of the Latsis Group) and is also the concluding project of the Lambda Olympic Village. Click here to see the official drawing of the 60,000 sq mtret development project, which is expected to be fully completed next summer.

Views of the shopping centre from Neratziotissa Station:






8. View of the shopping centre from Neratziotissa station also depicting part of the platform for line 1 (green or ISAP for the Greeks)



We now move to the "cake", some 500 metres to the east of the previous location, at the junction of Kifissias and Attica Road Avenues.


9. View of the complex of Neratziotissa station and the Shopping Centre from "the cake" with a zoom close up. Still, the size of the building is now more visible



10. Views of the OTE building and the cake - Update of a pervious 2002 picture posted n this thread:



In this picture you can also see part of the suburban rail station too:




12. Finally, a picture taken from "the cake" looking at other office complexes of the area including the Atrina Centre. Update of another picture posted in this thread too.



From all the above we conclude that something is in the making in the area. I have said for a million times that this particular area (much resembling to Levent or Maslak for the regular visitors here ) literelly begs for skyscraper construction. Will they be built and give it the proper looks? Only time will tell
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 03:20 PM   #49
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I want to ask anything. This area is at the north and away from Acropolis. My opinion, it is suitable for skyscrapers. Am I wrong? Athens can create an area like La Deffence in Paris. It doesn't effect the suliet of Paris either. I think, north of Athens is suitable for skyscrapers. What do you think about this?
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 03:54 PM   #50
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Because I have been to Buyukdere Avenue while being driven around in a tourist bus (after having tasted some delicious fish at a Bosporous restaurant), I can tell you that the similarities between Levent and Maroussi in terms of setting are amazing. True, at a distance of some 15 km to the north of the Acropolis (which isn't even visible from there) Maroussi clearly is THE place for the construction of a few skyscrapers up to 150m just to give an additional metropolitan touch to Athens. Indeed, there are a few more areas suitable for skyscrapers but obviously, nowhere near the coast. Like I said, this one is amongst the most appropriate places due to the already built infrastructure.

I don't know what George (who has initiated this wonderful thread, thanks buddy ) has to say about skyscraper construction in his neighbourhood though...
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 05:48 PM   #51
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do you think it will always be forbidden o something can change by the time? Maybe banks or firms will need such buildings in the future... Your big buildings are mostly horizontal and it spends much land for construction... They are also as big as any skyscraper, but horizontal...
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 05:58 PM   #52
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Elegant
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 07:11 PM   #53
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very nice
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 08:59 PM   #54
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Once again a contribution by gm...I'm looking forward to see george's "answer"... Take your time!!!
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 09:29 PM   #55
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Wow what a great contribution as always GM you describe everything up to the detail....
your Pics are really fantastic and I have to thank you really very much about this great contribution it makes really this thread much richer and more interesting especialy because your descriptions they are so detailed
as a second I will unswer your question about what I thing having skyscrapers in my neighborhood....
I will say the same as I said to my neighbors...
If the structuring in Maroussi in the beginning would be separeted in Office/Shoping development and Housing development I thing it would make it much easier for the People to accept skyscrapers but as I see now at the moment that they are building even in my street offices well that will make the situation more difficult to accept skyscrapers, but as for me personaly I dont mind to see view skyscrapers in the Kiffisias Avenue it would be an plus to this Avenue
and additional I have to say that Maroussi is a nice area to live modern the houses are very modern and in the weekends )or (evenings ) it is very quiet as the most are offices especialy where I live an breath away (5 min walk) from Nerantiotisa...
And I have to admit that I see every day the Stadium its simply stunning
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Old March 23rd, 2005, 03:03 PM   #56
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George gave the best answer one could have given with regards to the issue at hand. True, we have seen some rather extreme cases where 4-8 storey buildings have been built in neighbourhoods along with residential blocks. I mean, the situation in Paradissou street (that's "Paradise" street ) is a bit strange and consider the fact that while a four-storey residential block (with one residence per floor) may need up to 8 parking places, a commercial office building needs more than 20 in order to accomodate the employees that work there, without taking into account the numbers of visitors / customers etc that are parts and parcels of any active business operation. This obviously becomes a problem when buildings addressing different property development uses (i.e. residential vis-a-vis commercial) are forced to coexist.

Also, a skyscraper needs far larger area to be built in comparison to other buildings and true, when built in the correct manner (i.e. spaced apart with organised faciliries to serve the multitude of the functions of their tenants) skyscrapers can, besides a grandiose spectacle to their visitors and passers-by, offer a very well organised habitat which, albeit artificial, may offer much better living conditions compered to other lowrise, yet packed urban developments (like in many places in Athens ). However, the key to all is intelligent use of space, not the simple packing of taller buildings.
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Old March 23rd, 2005, 09:47 PM   #57
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I definatley would not want to see Maroussi turn into New York but I agree that adding more skyscrapers would be nice, Maroussi should try to become like Levent is in Istanbul.
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Old March 23rd, 2005, 10:50 PM   #58
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Like I said, everything is a matter of proper and strategic application of certain principles. In general, I would find it difficult to see buildings above 150m (read 500 feet) to be built anywhere in this city although a 250-m tall TV tower inside the Olympic Complex would be a spectacular new addition. However, I believe that the tallest building should not exceed the 40-storey - 150-160m mark. I also wouldn't expect many of them to be built overall around the city anyway. If they are so, they should be properly positioned in order to create an sense of openness instead of the density of, say Kato Patissia. The key is how you position the buildings, not simply packing them.

As for the "Manhattanisation" of Maroussi, even if the will was there, the biggest practical burden would be the current trends and demands for such towers. We are talking about thousands of square metres/feet with a rather fragile certainty for viable tenancy in the light of the current economic situation in Greece, and this is the reason that only few players would be able to proceed with this. And of course, we are talking about offices here, as I dont'believe that any Greek family would like to live some 15 or 20 storeys above the ground. For work it's different though if the construction of these first edifices is accompanied by an intensive promotional campaign...
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Old March 23rd, 2005, 11:13 PM   #59
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But I think Ethniki Trapeza and others can have tall HQ's. Am I wrong? For example tall buildings are investment in Istanbul. They are expensive but bring more money to the owner. As I told your horizontal big buildings are expensive too, also they spend larger area. But if you say people of Athens don't like them, of course no one can say anything else...
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Old March 28th, 2005, 11:26 PM   #60
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I have been away for a while but this thread is amazing.


This is the reason I think we all came to love these forums....

gm and george I must commend you, great job and thank you. Keep up the good work and keep the pictures coming!!

btw, I can't wait to see this finished:

http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/downl...ssi+Centre.jpg

It really adds alot to the look of the area. Hopefully we keep improving!
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