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Old November 21st, 2012, 10:18 AM   #621
moveupandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hulmeman2 View Post
Well done indeed! You're doing a fine job.

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co...d-Fire-Station
thanks, persistence, persistence, persistence!

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co...d-Fire-Station

Also discovered this awful youtube video of inside #LRFS taken in 2008. Not sure if posted before in threads? http://goo.gl/lN5jz

I guess for me these are some of the issues that remain:
a) if and when a new CPO is actually being pursued? is it watertight this time?
b) if Britannia suddenly have change of heart and put rubbish 2/3* hotel on site with no public facilities, when this should be multi-purpose iconic centre. Manchester cannot support this and they've had 26 years FFS!
c) is the council going to try and bid off the in many people's opinions should be criminals Britannia? The CPO should 100% be the strategy above pandering to BH & finance them with market value sell off.
d) will Pickles actually support council over business? if he is chair is a new CPO safe?
e) what will the council actually do with the building? public needs assurance this isn't just a fob off for some lacklustre planning?
f) how do the public demand imaginative planning?
g) is it possible for a criminal case to be brought against BH?

Hoping to get to 1000+ signatures soon!

Only MEN resistant to story and I wonder if they have felt intimidated by BH at times. Will keep pestering them or maybe with Manchester Confidential I won't need them at all.

Well to the doubters that this would ever get a single signature or I "ruined petition with my own words"! You all should see some of signaturees bile for BH/ Pickles/ politics/ planning rules etc!

Best all x

Last edited by moveupandon; November 21st, 2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 12:25 PM   #622
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Good work MUAO

Taking the City Council's part for the moment; I would imagine that they would hope that - should another CPO be presented - it will be a different minister at CLG (or even better, a different party in power). That might well incline them to stall on action for the moment; and to discourage the local media from bigging-up the story.

But in the meanwhile the fire station deteriorates; and Langsam thumbs his nose at everyone.

The crucial player would appear to be English Heritage. Th Fire station is already on their 'priority heritage at risk' list for the North West. They should be pressed to respond on why they supported Britannia at the CPO, and what action they now intend to take.

http://risk.english-heritage.org.uk/register.aspx

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/c...nw-summary.pdf
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:37 PM   #623
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Good work MUAO

Taking the City Council's part for the moment; I would imagine that they would hope that - should another CPO be presented - it will be a different minister at CLG (or even better, a different party in power). That might well incline them to stall on action for the moment; and to discourage the local media from bigging-up the story.

But in the meanwhile the fire station deteriorates; and Langsam thumbs his nose at everyone.

The crucial player would appear to be English Heritage. Th Fire station is already on their 'priority heritage at risk' list for the North West. They should be pressed to respond on why they supported Britannia at the CPO, and what action they now intend to take.

http://risk.english-heritage.org.uk/register.aspx

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/c...nw-summary.pdf
Good points. Yesterday, an experienced English Heritage activist got in touch with me. Hopefully I can ask her to draft a professional email to her contacts in English Heritage. Who knows what can happen!

Also a friend of mine who is an architect wants to bring attention of to UofM professorship and Manchester Architects. A possible networking for getting the word out to developers or creatives. The petition has hopefully been a catalyst to people far, far, far, more experienced than me.

And a friend of a friend in law has taken a great interest in the debate of planning laws/ criminality (i.e. why are the windows open on all the upper floors for years and not been sealed, is this willed vandalism by BH)? These things could only wreck my head, but glad it has stimulated debate!

Absolutely astounding day for the petition, so nearing 1000 where I believe this has to be brought to debate! Pestering the new MP Lucy Powell loads and having spoken to her, I feel she is a good 'un!

For the last month struggled to get to 550, then I think Manchester Confidential gave in with me and saw it wasn't a half baked, petering out and non-persistent whim. And I believe Jonathan Schofield is formidable.

Well I hope an exceptional company can one day bid for this building and then, not so far away, we will all be walking into an exceptional multi-purpose venue, that excites and shows the world Manchester status is rising and rising. Maybe less than Martin Luther Kings dream, but nevertheless! We all need dreams!

Let's hope a new CPO brings a legacy to be proud of as Manchester certainly deserves so much better!
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:45 PM   #624
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Have you written to Manchester Central's new MP? She may want to take up your cause to show she is starting her tenure running.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:01 PM   #625
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Have you written to Manchester Central's new MP? She may want to take up your cause to show she is starting her tenure running.
Hi, Yes, that's Lucy Powell.

Pestering her (not too much hopefully)!

Her twitter is @LucyMPowell

So you all might want to tweet her. If she managed a genuine triumph after 26 years then wow, what a start to office.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:28 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by nerd View Post
Good work MUAO

Taking the City Council's part for the moment; I would imagine that they would hope that - should another CPO be presented - it will be a different minister at CLG (or even better, a different party in power). That might well incline them to stall on action for the moment; and to discourage the local media from bigging-up the story.

But in the meanwhile the fire station deteriorates; and Langsam thumbs his nose at everyone.

The crucial player would appear to be English Heritage. Th Fire station is already on their 'priority heritage at risk' list for the North West. They should be pressed to respond on why they supported Britannia at the CPO, and what action they now intend to take.

http://risk.english-heritage.org.uk/register.aspx

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/c...nw-summary.pdf
English Heritage screwed up big time. The people at EH who decided to trust (wrongly) Britannia should come out and put the situation right.

Otherwise there is no need to paying them our hard earned taxes if they **** up and don't want to explain.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:49 PM   #627
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English Heritage screwed up big time. The people at EH who decided to trust (wrongly) Britannia should come out and put the situation right.

Otherwise there is no need to paying them our hard earned taxes if they **** up and don't want to explain.
Absolutely!

The charm offensive obviously bewildered the trusting English Heritage!

But we all know that SORRY is the hardest word and most hated word in the English Language, so though this little movement might ask... the paranoia of liability and image might make them resistant!

Which is such a shame as this case could be pivotal in experts and lawyers making new and fairer social policy around at risk heritage.

Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll come out fighting BH... that would be so welcome.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:48 AM   #628
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English Heritage screwed up big time. The people at EH who decided to trust (wrongly) Britannia should come out and put the situation right.

Otherwise there is no need to paying them our hard earned taxes if they **** up and don't want to explain.
I agree with that. EH didn't do anything about Library Walk either. And they have a perverse PC attitude wherein you can't do something in keeping with some beautiful old building, and you end up with a carbuncle stuck to it like a tumour. They're part-funded by a "Grant in Aid", see this. So my tax money is paying for their smug arrogance. Pull the plug I say.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 04:14 PM   #629
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I agree with that. EH didn't do anything about Library Walk either. And they have a perverse PC attitude wherein you can't do something in keeping with some beautiful old building, and you end up with a carbuncle stuck to it like a tumour. They're part-funded by a "Grant in Aid", see this. So my tax money is paying for their smug arrogance. Pull the plug I say.
Yes they do seem very woolly and weak. Never heard back from them (yet)!

Also has anyone read this excerpt from Guardian interview with Alex Langsam on 18/02/11

"Langsam's desire to hold on to decaying bits of British history come perhaps from his father. His Jewish parents fled Hitler, leaving behind substantial property and retail interests in Vienna, to start a new life in "rooms" in Hove, West Sussex. "My father was the most nationalistic person I have ever come across," he says. "Britain saved his life and gave him a living and he instilled that in me. I am grateful for what this country has given me."

If it was possible with this man I wonder if anything can appeal to his morality? Is he making his parents/ ancestors proud? How can he can he destroy heritage and culture coming from the context that he does?

It's a sad, sad, sad, business indeed.

Also he says

"We do it because we enjoy the challenge," he says. "Above all it is fun, I don't do it for money." And despite the grandeur of the architecture his hotels firmly target the mass market. "Our extraordinary buildings are enjoyed by ordinary people. This is a formula that has given us a thriving and sustainable business over the years."
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:40 PM   #630
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Have you thought of contacting Private Eye magazine? This fiasco sounds like a prime candidate for their 'Nooks and Corners' column.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:35 PM   #631
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Have you thought of contacting Private Eye magazine? This fiasco sounds like a prime candidate for their 'Nooks and Corners' column.
Will do today! Worth a shot as is anything!

Right sent this open letter today

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...RBM/edit?pli=1

Dear Sir Howard Bernstein, MP Lucy Powell, Sir Richard Leese, Simon Thurley, English Heritage and those involved in pioneering this case

Re: London Road Fire Station Petition Open Letter Sent Friday 23rd November 2012

I hope that this email find you well. Manchester shares your dismay and upset with the unfathomable neglect of the London Road Fire Station. This is why I started this petition just last month. I have been awed by the support and how important this Listed Building is for so many people. Now with increasing media exposure and persistence this petition is rapidly increasing each day. The petition has now well exceeded 1000 signatures and is going strong. (Please find link here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/m...on-standing-up ).

What has been so heart-warming about this petition is the increasingly widespread connectedness this petition has given rise to in terms of how people feel about this case. Increasingly I am being contacted by Manchester’s professional, public Heritage networks and beyond, which is awe inspiring. I attach a document with a useful consultant that has got in touch with me recently. I do this not to be presumptuous or precocious but in the possibility such assistance could be beneficial to our cities cause.

What I would love to happen is for a Public Meeting to be arranged so that the public can feel involved with this process and in supporting a new CPO for LRFS (the main principle of this petition). Not only do I hope that this petition can be used as corroborating evidence for any future pursuits of LRFS, but one that also heightens public involvement after over a quarter of a century of Britannia Hotels neglectful and duplicitous rule over this Iconic At Risk building that represents Manchester’s past and incredible potential future.

I am far away from being an expert on politics, council rule, planning law, architecture or the like. This is why I humbly ask for a public meeting to be advertised and arranged to give Manchester involvement in the attainment and future of London Road Fire Station. And in giving their opinions, networks, ideas, exposure and interest in this building, Manchester’s public role can also be important in the discussion of the future use of this unique and magnificent building.

What also is very clear from the petition is people’s disgust with Britannia. There is a huge emphasis from the people that this should be viewed as a wilful vandalism and possibly criminal neglect. Even to the lay person or observer questions such as why are the windows open from the first floor upwards, having not been sealed and exposed to the elements for years? Why if the ground level is sealed, have these been opened and is it usual to leave At Risk Heritage so vulnerable?

I do not know if such a test case has ever been brought against a company but it is one that in this extraordinary circumstance might be considered. Many people are hurt, offended and flabbergasted as to how Britannia Hotels have acted. I believe from reading English Heritage’s open letter to Britannia they too have frustrations and regrets and so I ask them to join the people of Manchester to remedy this situation once and for all.

I believe, as do many, the legal costs of the last CPO should not be your burden as a council either (especially in a time of austerity and much social pain), especially after the actions of inaction and cynicism of Britannia Hotel’s ‘rule’ over important English Heritage. The emphasis many people clearly believe in is the necessity of pursuing a new CPO rather than entering a bidding war with Britannia. A new CPO surely could only be successful within the realms of just British Politics? Surely a decision could not be made to reject a CPO again with the substantial evidence against Britannia Hotels?

I wonder if you could email me back and make an arrangement for a public and open meeting with key people representing this case, whilst extending the invitation especially to professional Mancunians (and beyond) in specialist areas such as Architecture, the legal profession and other creative, public relations and important professional bodies that make our great city full of initiative and capability. Such an advertisement for a meeting could be made through our vibrant media to ensure people hear about and can have the choice to attend a chaired and open meeting.

I look forward to your response and express the sentiment of support from Manchester for a new CPO for an exceptional redevelopment of this iconic building of heritage – at last! I firmly believe in the need for openness and public involvement in this case here on in.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely


Adam Prince
Petition Founder

Too late to recall! But my heart is in the right place! The public need involvement not exclusion!
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:16 PM   #632
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Will do today! Worth a shot as is anything!

Right sent this open letter today

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...RBM/edit?pli=1

Dear Sir Howard Bernstein, MP Lucy Powell, Sir Richard Leese, Simon Thurley, English Heritage and those involved in pioneering this case

Re: London Road Fire Station Petition Open Letter Sent Friday 23rd November 2012

I hope that this email find you well. Manchester shares your dismay and upset with the unfathomable neglect of the London Road Fire Station. This is why I started this petition just last month. I have been awed by the support and how important this Listed Building is for so many people. Now with increasing media exposure and persistence this petition is rapidly increasing each day. The petition has now well exceeded 1000 signatures and is going strong. (Please find link here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/m...on-standing-up ).

What has been so heart-warming about this petition is the increasingly widespread connectedness this petition has given rise to in terms of how people feel about this case. Increasingly I am being contacted by Manchester’s professional, public Heritage networks and beyond, which is awe inspiring. I attach a document with a useful consultant that has got in touch with me recently. I do this not to be presumptuous or precocious but in the possibility such assistance could be beneficial to our cities cause.

What I would love to happen is for a Public Meeting to be arranged so that the public can feel involved with this process and in supporting a new CPO for LRFS (the main principle of this petition). Not only do I hope that this petition can be used as corroborating evidence for any future pursuits of LRFS, but one that also heightens public involvement after over a quarter of a century of Britannia Hotels neglectful and duplicitous rule over this Iconic At Risk building that represents Manchester’s past and incredible potential future.

I am far away from being an expert on politics, council rule, planning law, architecture or the like. This is why I humbly ask for a public meeting to be advertised and arranged to give Manchester involvement in the attainment and future of London Road Fire Station. And in giving their opinions, networks, ideas, exposure and interest in this building, Manchester’s public role can also be important in the discussion of the future use of this unique and magnificent building.

What also is very clear from the petition is people’s disgust with Britannia. There is a huge emphasis from the people that this should be viewed as a wilful vandalism and possibly criminal neglect. Even to the lay person or observer questions such as why are the windows open from the first floor upwards, having not been sealed and exposed to the elements for years? Why if the ground level is sealed, have these been opened and is it usual to leave At Risk Heritage so vulnerable?

I do not know if such a test case has ever been brought against a company but it is one that in this extraordinary circumstance might be considered. Many people are hurt, offended and flabbergasted as to how Britannia Hotels have acted. I believe from reading English Heritage’s open letter to Britannia they too have frustrations and regrets and so I ask them to join the people of Manchester to remedy this situation once and for all.

I believe, as do many, the legal costs of the last CPO should not be your burden as a council either (especially in a time of austerity and much social pain), especially after the actions of inaction and cynicism of Britannia Hotel’s ‘rule’ over important English Heritage. The emphasis many people clearly believe in is the necessity of pursuing a new CPO rather than entering a bidding war with Britannia. A new CPO surely could only be successful within the realms of just British Politics? Surely a decision could not be made to reject a CPO again with the substantial evidence against Britannia Hotels?

I wonder if you could email me back and make an arrangement for a public and open meeting with key people representing this case, whilst extending the invitation especially to professional Mancunians (and beyond) in specialist areas such as Architecture, the legal profession and other creative, public relations and important professional bodies that make our great city full of initiative and capability. Such an advertisement for a meeting could be made through our vibrant media to ensure people hear about and can have the choice to attend a chaired and open meeting.

I look forward to your response and express the sentiment of support from Manchester for a new CPO for an exceptional redevelopment of this iconic building of heritage – at last! I firmly believe in the need for openness and public involvement in this case here on in.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely


Adam Prince
Petition Founder

Too late to recall! But my heart is in the right place! The public need involvement not exclusion!

Fantastic letter, we are all in your debt.

One potential major source of support that you might contact would be the varioius business communities active in the area around Piccadilly. The main forum for these is the 'Piccadilly Partnership'

http://www.cityco.com/piccadillymanchester/

especially Carillion (who manage Piccadilly Place); Network Rail, MacDonald Hotels, Malmaison.

For Langsam this would admittedly be a red-rag issue; as he loathes all forms of commercial partnership and joint working to mutual advantage. But there are some mightly influential (and rich) commercial names active in the locality; and they are all mightily pissed off by their customers having to look out on the Fire Station in its curent state.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:03 PM   #633
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A very good letter moveupandon, I hope it does some good!
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:41 PM   #634
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Well put that man,composed and written with passion and conviction lets all hope it receives the response it deserves.
And Britannia and their cohorts get their comeuppance, this includes The right honorable member for Brentwood and Ongar
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:23 PM   #635
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BDNW.

Quote:
A MANCHESTER psychotherapist is behind a campaign lobbying Manchester City Council to launch a second compulsory purchase order for the London Road Fire Station.

Adam Prince, who walks past the building every day, said he was motivated by its sorry state.

He has set up an online petition, which has attracted nearly 1,000 signatures, and has already arranged a meeting with new Manchester Central MP Lucy Powell.

The building is owned by Hale-based Britannia Hotels, led by Alex Langsam, which has failed to progress several schemes over the past 25 years.

He said: "I looked for a petition online and there wasn't a single mention of one so I thought 'I'm going to start one and see what happens'.

"The support has been pretty big but I'm not an expert in planning or acrchitecture, or anything like that."

The council launched a compulsory purchase order for the site which was rejected at public enquiry last November. At the time Britannia promised to start work on a 227-bed hotel within three months of the inquiry but has since said this would "not be sustainable either in the current climate or in the foreseeable future". Earlier this month confirmed the council confirmed it was preparing a fresh bid.

Mr Prince believes Britannia's failure to act has undermined the inquiry decision, justifying a new CPO. "This once majestic building should be a visionary, rather than shameful, gateway to Manchester and its architectural history," he says on the petition.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #636
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BDNW.
Give us a clue then - what's BDNW?
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Old November 24th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #637
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Follow the link
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Old November 24th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #638
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Thanks
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Old November 28th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #639
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Thanks for support. I've not been on for a while.

I wanted to come back and say the council have replied giving a public meeting, which they haven't yet.

I have a big of cynicism about whether they will reply, which if they do not, will be so upsetting on so many levels, as it excludes even informing, involving, or listening to the public, which I think will be a travesty. I was told that getting over 1000 signatures allows you to demand a public meeting, but for some reason I remain pessimistic.

I hope they reply and I hope they grant seeing the people of Manchester as worthy as being heard and involved in this case. To not do so, would be offensive and appalling.

Sorry no real updates. The MEN will take on my story if I get a new exclusive (i.e. a meeting) as they say they cannot cover stories already covered in say, Manchester Confidential. It might be a fob off, as I've also been told by an 'insider' not only does the MEN feel they need to be 'balanced' in this case, there are whispers of a bad relationship with Britannia (which doesn't surprise me at all). I don't know what side could be considered 'balanced' in this story, but will keep on pursuing them and the others leads and especially a public meeting with MP, MCC, English Heritage and the professionals of Manchester who certainly could do with some initiative and respect of the citizens of this city!

Also a CPO Professor and expert has got in touch with me who has worked successfully with Birmingham/ Cardiff/ West Sussex City Council. Of course I've passed these details on to the city council. They may be trying to go for a new CPO but with 26 years of failures, to speak to someone like this for free couldn't hurt. Sometimes I wonder if the Council is too stifled by its bureaucracy to be proactive and strategic. Certainly many have said the last CPO was planned inadequately and the history of failures with this case has offended many in the petition.

It's hard to know the true case or not. Whatever's clear, I fully expect a reply and not a fob off as it disrespects anyone who see's this building every day, has signed the petition and is concerned. I hope the City Council remembers they are serving the people and therefore can't be exclusionary or isolationists. Any developments, I'll let you know!

Best all
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Old November 28th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #640
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Well done again, Adam.
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