SkyscraperCity Forum banner

INGLEWOOD - Intuit Dome (18,000)

Tags
stadium usa
419K views 1K replies 89 participants last post by  pesto 
#1 ·
See less See more
1
#6 · (Edited)
So, this is interesting news!! Begs the question though, where and what exactly do Ballmer and the Clippers envision as their new home? The fact of the matter is that LA already has two state of the art arenas in the Staples Center and the Forum, and both arenas are anchors of present and future entertainment districts (L.A. Live downtown for Staples and the Hollywood Park Rams Stadium development in Inglewood). Outside of those places, where exactly on the west side does Ballmer see the Clippers arena going? I guess I could see Carson if they want to shore up the OC, but otherwise it's hard to picture a single location that is screaming out for an arena on the west side. And even if he does find a site he likes, I hope he's ready for the mother of all NIMBY fights. The folks who live west of the 405 and north of the 10 are pretty well off and love nothing more than to fight off a big honking' developer plan.

ETA: So apparently according to the article the Clippers have looked at six possible locations in SoCal, and a commenter has pointed out that the Clippers practice facility is in Playa Vista. Wouldn't surprise me if the Clippers try to build in Playa Vista near Loyola Marymount, and then try to set themselves up as the team for the burgeoning tech sector in "Silicon Beach". That would especially make sense given Ballmer's ties to the tech sector. If successful that would set up an interesting dichotomy I think. The Lakers in Staples Center would be the team of the "traditional" L.A., i.e. the L.A. of show business, Hollywood and Glitz. The Clippers would become the team of the "new" L.A., the team of tech startups, innovation and paradigm disrupting (to use some buzzwords)
 
#7 ·
There's literally no room on the west side. One option could be the industrial areas in Playa Vista between Ballona Creek and Jefferson, but the land isn't currently vacant and likely would need to involve several owners to piece enough land together. Playa Vista NIMBYs would likely try to fight it too. Any part of Santa Monica (even the industrial Expo-adjacent areas) is out of the question due to NIMBYs. But if he truly wants to be on the west side, and not the South Bay, then El Segundo seems to be his best bet.

Frankly, I would stay out of the west side altogether and just redevelop the Long Beach Arena site.
 
#8 ·
It's all about revenue and available dates. The Clippers were latecomers to Staples Center which was conceived as a building for the Lakers and Kings. It was widely thought that the Clippers would ultimately end up at what's now known as Toyota Center in Anaheim. Instead they signed a six year lease that has since been extended a couple of times. I'm not sure if terms were renegotiated, but per the original agreement the Clippers received ticket and suite revenue from their games only, plus they faced disadvantageous scheduling. The Lakers had priority for scheduling games on Fridays and Sundays. The Kings had priority for scheduling games on Thursdays and Saturdays. The Clippers had to fit in their games wherever possible, including working around concerts, entertainment events, and other sporting events.
 
#17 ·
As of now their lease runs through June 2024. They last signed a ten year deal in 2013 that will run through the 2023-2024 NBA season:

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/clippers-extend-their-staples-center-lease

So it sounds like the Clippers would move into their new arena in 2024.

Oh gee, hmm, I wonder what OTHER sporting events may be taking place in LA in the summer of 2024 that may enjoy using a brand new state of the art basketball arena?? :hmm:...
 
#11 ·
So I did a little bit of google maps "sleuthing" and this was the best plot of land I saw for a Clippers Arena:



It's in Playa Vista between LMU, the Marina Fwy, Lincoln Blvd. and Centinela. As Far as I could tell there are no major projects on it, and it's plenty enough space to build a basketball only arena, as well as even some ancillary real estate development.

However, there is still the NIMBY problem mentioned. And not just NIMBYs, AEG and Madison Square Garden Company won't be too welcoming to a new arena either and I'm sure the Clippers will have to fight these two companies in court as well.
 
#14 ·
^^The Forum isn't really setup to be a top flight sports arena anymore. While they have done an extensive renovation, they didn't rework the bowl at all to have the mid level suites and club seats that are a requirement in this day in age. Its more of a concert/boxing venue at this point where being on the floor or in the stands is more desirable.

I tend to be wary of 1 team, 1 arena type deals, but if there's a city that's big enough to book enough events to make a solo tenant arena pencil out, its LA. It might be fun to think about them going in on an arena with the Ducks to give LA its own Knicks/Rangers vs Nets/Islanders rivalry, but I think the Ducks aren't ready to leave their cushy deal with the Honda Center quite yet. Maybe by 2024, the OC will be where its at and we'll see a new arena where the old Pond once stood?
 
#15 ·
Yeah fair enough point re: the Forum. I was mostly think in economic terms for a new arena, if there was a market for it. The fact is that the Forum and the Staples Center have a sort of uneasy alliance right now. The Forum is the "concert" arena for medium to large sized acts, and the Staples Center is the "sports" arena with its three teams, as well as concerts for large sized acts. If the Clippers build a new arena, you'd have a third competitor in the venue space in Southern California. And as big as the market is, are there enough events in LA to justify three modern 16,000+ seat arenas (four if you count the Honda Center, and SIX if you count USC/UCLA)?
That being said, that question relies on the idea that Steve Ballmer would look for this new arena to turn a profit outside of basketball. I think he sees the Clippers as a sort of vanity project, and if a basketball specific arena can break even with just 40-50 basketball dates a year, and suite/club/naming rights revenue, that might be enough for him to justify building.
 
#16 ·
Ha, just posted about this in the LA Projects thread, wish I'd seen it here first. I agree with the general sentiment that finding a true Westside arena site is going to be a monstrous task.

The Playa Vista idea seems relatively credible, although access isn't great and the NIMBY resistance will be huge.

I think there are potential sites around LAX/Howard Hughes center -- i.e. one of the massive parking lots/structures in the flightpath that would incur minimal NIMBYism.

Depending on how you stretch your definition of the "Westside," there are a number of industrial sites in Hawthorne and the inland parts of the South Bay, which would still allow Ballmer to avail himself of the Silicon Beach/tech bro culture. But if you're stretching your definition, it does make you wonder about the Forum. Not sure it will cut it as a 21st century NBA arena, but maybe after another $500 Million.

Anywhere in the core of the Westside gets insanely tricky, but I do wonder about a couple of currently questionable developments that seem ripe to be taken over: 1) the 30-story tower at La Cienega/Jefferson currently under massive fire, and 2) the seemingly stalled skyscraper at Constellation/Ave of the Stars on top of the new Century City Purple Line stop.
 
#18 ·
Ha, just posted about this in the LA Projects thread, wish I'd seen it here first. I agree with the general sentiment that finding a true Westside arena site is going to be a monstrous task.

The Playa Vista idea seems relatively credible, although access isn't great and the NIMBY resistance will be huge.

I think there are potential sites around LAX/Howard Hughes center -- i.e. one of the massive parking lots/structures in the flightpath that would incur minimal NIMBYism.

Depending on how you stretch your definition of the "Westside," there are a number of industrial sites in Hawthorne and the inland parts of the South Bay, which would still allow Ballmer to avail himself of the Silicon Beach/tech bro culture. But if you're stretching your definition, it does make you wonder about the Forum. Not sure it will cut it as a 21st century NBA arena, but maybe after another $500 Million.

Anywhere in the core of the Westside gets insanely tricky, but I do wonder about a couple of currently questionable developments that seem ripe to be taken over: 1) the 30-story tower at La Cienega/Jefferson currently under massive fire, and 2) the seemingly stalled skyscraper at Constellation/Ave of the Stars on top of the new Century City Purple Line stop.
Yeah good point about the access. Honestly the more I think about it the more I think an arena in Playa Vista would be kind of a disaster. Can you imagine 15,000 cars all taking Jefferson over 40 nights a year? I don't even live there and I feel NIMBY rage at the project just thinking about it.

The Century City site is a cool idea. It'd be a tight fit but you could make it work, and sitting on top of a subway stop would make it one of the most transit friendly venues in town. And CC does have quite a bit of parking. However, I think Ballmer is pretty set on the westside and as long as he is west of the 405 he'll be happy. I think he'll probably end up in El Segundo like Slipperydog said, or somewhere in the South Bay east of Manhattan Beach and Redondo Beach.
 
#22 ·
The Clippers are a tenant (i.e. they don't control the facility), so it's not as financially lucrative than if they had their own place.

Depends on what you mean by relocation. If you mean relocation within Greater LA, I'd agree. But other cities aren't handing out cash for new arenas, so not sure what the benefit would be of moving out of state at that point. Ballmer pretty clearly wants to stay and build somewhere in Southern California.
 
#26 ·
Never a dull moment. Are Inglewood and LAFC now officially yesterday’s news? .

Ballmer has noted more than once that he will die owning the Clippers in LA. This is backed not only by his word but by the billion or so value they lose on moving anywhere out of LA. Even LB or the OC is a large step down in prestige.

Playa Vista is very tempting since that’s where the money is going, but as some note, anywhere west of La Cienega is probably still the west side. As a practical matter we are looking south of the 10, which is more the LAX area than the traditional “west side”. That seems like the only area where urbanization, tech, great weather and proximity to LAX and the entertainment industry come together with available land.

But it’s not obvious where you can build. My first reaction was that Ballmer buys the Forum from MSG (Knicks) or works out a deal with them to do 41 nights for the Clips with him controlling premises those nights. Plus he talks with the Ducks; the leases at Honda and Staples run out in 2024 so that seems to work well.

Otherwise, I don’t see where else you are likely to get the land, local cooperation and room for reasonable development on the west side. It’s not an area where the locals are looking for large sports facilities in their backyards and not a good use of space, given the excellent venues in the area.
 
#40 ·
It's just a possibility. I threw it out there because I knew someone would bring it up.

Clippers are perfectly happy in LA, they have a very good fan base and a share of the 2nd most important media market in the US.
Yeah, about that...

Can you really say that a secondary franchise in one city that's owned by a storied franchise with multiple titles is "perfectly" happy in L.A.? No matter what the Clippers do or what they win, they will always be the Luigi in Los Angeles.

Who's to say Balmer won't try to work something out with Seattle?

And as for the comment about "a very good fanbase"... uh, I don't think I've seen ONE person call themselves a Clipper fan before 2011.
 
#35 ·
A couple of thoughts.

It’s hard to picture leaving downtown LA and passing up the Westside for Seattle or LB. Sort of like preferring STL or Carson over Inglewood, which neither Kroenke or the NFL thought was a good idea.

I don’t think we can overlook the possibility that this is just negotiations and we will end up with the Clips getting a better deal in a vastly renovated Staples. There is a new Convention Center on the way and the synergies could be significant.

I’m not sure why the Dodgers would leave DS. Downtown is booming (even in Silver Lake, Chinatown, Echo Park, Union Station area, which are the major areas surrounding DS), they own the land and stadium, there is huge room for development and they have been considering development for some time.
 
#36 · (Edited)
^^
Pretty much agree with all the above. If you move down south or to Anaheim you might as well move to Seattle as far as the major "techbro" movers and shakers in LA are concerned, you will be equally as separated from the energetic heart of LA startup investment. I think Ballmer really does want to stay in LA, but he'll only do it if he is in the heart of it all, otherwise he'll entertain a move out of town. But his first option is somewhere in what we would all consider the "Westside".
And off topic, I think there was a time where the Dodgers would have looked for another site, but that time has past. With the booming development in Downtown, Chinatown, Echo Park and Silver Lake, as well as the renovations to Dodger Stadium and the fact that the team is sitting on a gigantic parcel of untapped land with endless development opportunity (seriously you could fit TWO NFL stadiums in Chavez Ravine as well as DS and still have room for parking), the Dodgers ain't going anywhere.
 
#37 ·
One thing about the Clippers to Seattle though... didn't they just shoot down a pretty decent arena plan there? It seems like Chris Hansen has being doing all the legwork for a new Seattle NBA arena, and he hasn't been able to get anything done through the city despite all his work. It's hard to imagine Ballmer moving in and just "like that" getting a brand new arena built for an NBA team, deep pockets or not.
 
#39 ·
Here’s the kind of story that shows why Ballmer wants to be on the west side.

Paul Pogba was in town to get medical clearance re his change of teams, meet with service providers re his branding strategy, hang visibly at the beach and in Beverly Hills for photo shoots, and (of course) hit the nightlife with the Hollywood and rap set.

Not a coincidence that they went to 1 Oak, with it’s rap and gangsta connections, and, of course early in the morning there’s the mandatory run-in with the paparazzi, no doubt staged by his PR manager to show that Pogba is a Bad Boy Gangsta, which gives the worldwide soccer fans a shiver of excitement while pretending shock at the LA lifestyle.

Different in tone, but the same idea as Beckham’s kid’s birthday party in Century City, complete with movie stars and convenient camera angles. Some may not believe it (and hardly anyone likes it), but there’s no such thing as bad publicity and LA attracts eyeballs.
 
#46 ·
I'm wondering how this new Clippers arena will affect The Forum in Inglewood. If the Clippers really are aiming for a Westside location, then I wouldn't want to pick a location that is too close to The Forum in Inglewood. Unfortunately, Playa Vista is one such location. I imagine the new Clippers arena taking away most of the Forum's business to the point of The Forum being closed down and demolished; That despite The Forum having already been renovated just a couple of years ago and then added to the National Register of Historic Places.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Yeah, just to go off of what Marckymarc said, it is MUCH more likely that the new Clippers arena becomes basketball only and hosts very few concerts, than it is that the new Clippers arena takes so much concert revenue from the Forum that the Forum has to close. For one, the Forum is a great venue for concerts and is run by Madison Square Garden Company, which is well known and has many deep contacts within the music business. Second, and more importantly, the Forum will soon sit at the heart of a booming sports and entertainment district in west LA, anchored by the new Rams Stadium. The area around the Inglewood Stadium is going to become LA Live on steroids, so all of that commercial and entertainment activity nearby will make the Forum perfectly situated to take advantage of the influx of new dollars.
ETA: haha this looks like the second time I've taken your point and run with it marcky. I'm just agreeing, I'm not stalking I swear! :shifty::lol:
 
#54 · (Edited)
I think as far as the Clippers are concerned, there is little to no chance they move back to San Diego. Ballmer has made it pretty clear that he sees the Clippers as an LA team, and if they were to move, the ONLY destination they would move for is Seattle (again though, that is not very likely)
Regarding relocation of another team or expansion though, I think San Diego becomes very desirable as a landing spot for an NBA team if they get a new state of the art arena like Las Vegas. San Diego is still the 17th largest MSA in the country, above Denver or San Antonio just for example. And they have a unique civic identity apart from LA that is ripe for developing. In general, if a sports league is to maximize the California market, they should have 5 teams in the state: two in NorCal/the Bay Area, two in LA, and one in San Diego. As of now, MLB is the only sports league that does this. But the NBA is close, with 4 teams in the state, 2 in NorCal and 2 in LA. A San Diego team would help the NBA to max out its earning potential in the Golden State.
 
Top