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Old April 22nd, 2010, 05:34 PM   #2321
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finally construction has started for the line 2.Don`t know exactly if it is soil testing or construction of pillars.but yes the work has started !!
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 10:33 PM   #2322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
You are thinking only for the rich people, not for the ordinary folks. If airport express gets built from say South Mumbai to CSIA, then ordinary metro line will not be built parallel to it because of obvious reasons. Airport express will be used by only handful of people who want to visit airport, while ordinary metro line will be used by even those people who do not want to visit airport but say from Colaba to Mahalaxmi.
Which does bring us to the point of which areas such a line should connect...it's obviously not sufficient to connect only South Bombay to the airport... connectivity needs to be there for all suburbs since there will be a lot more ppl from these areas than just SoBo. In Delhi's case the airport is away from the nucleus of the metro system itself, and so it made sense to make an express line from there to the airport.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 11:03 PM   #2323
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Ordinary metro lines can give connectivity to CSIA from all directions. Though only South Mumbai will be connected to an airport by a direct line. People from rest of the city will have to change a train or two but changing a metro train is not a big hassle.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 12:45 AM   #2324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Ordinary metro lines can give connectivity to CSIA from all directions. Though only South Mumbai will be connected to an airport by a direct line. People from rest of the city will have to change a train or two but changing a metro train is not a big hassle.
It would be an hassle for people having luggages as the stoppage time would be less for the metro also it wouldnt be difficult for people to board a crowded metro with their luggage. Dedicated high speed connectivity would be required sooner or later.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 09:59 PM   #2325
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Originally Posted by khargharboi View Post
It would be an hassle for people having luggages as the stoppage time would be less for the metro also it wouldnt be difficult for people to board a crowded metro with their luggage. Dedicated high speed connectivity would be required sooner or later.
I am quoting one of my previous post again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
You are thinking only for the rich people, not for the ordinary folks. If airport express gets built from say South Mumbai to CSIA, then ordinary metro line will not be built parallel to it because of obvious reasons. Airport express will be used by only handful of people who want to visit airport, while ordinary metro line will be used by even those people who do not want to visit airport but say from Colaba to Mahalaxmi.

Airport express have many times more expensive tickets and are used by only a small fraction of people. For eg, Delhi's 23 km airport express will attract 20,000 people per day while an ordinary line with same length attract more than 2,00,000 people per day.
If airport express gets built, it would mean sacrificing an ordinary metro line on that route as you cannot have competition between 2 metros on similar route, esp. when pvt money is involved. Only few people will gain from that decision but there would be many who will lose. The above numbers explain why.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 10:44 PM   #2326
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abhi have a look at the map

that area your talking most places will be within 1km(12min walking distance) from either a suburban or railway station.

They really dont need another metro line.

To be blunt, I am dead against constructing a line from airport to BKC to Colaba. Clearly money can be spent elsewhere.

As the time proceeds BKC will be the premium business hub of the city and is about 3-4 km from the airport. You dont need this line.


Maybe a better allocation of funds might be to build a line from Borivali to Thane/Mulund(yes am i biased on this) to provide further east west connectivity.

or you can build another metroline from Vikroli to Jogeshwari

Last edited by IchimaruGin1; April 23rd, 2010 at 10:49 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 10:50 PM   #2327
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That was just an example. Main point was that when you have an airport bang in the middle of the city, then ordinary metro line will be much better than airport express. AExp suits those cities more where airport is far outside the city, such as Blr or Hyd.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 10:58 PM   #2328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
That was just an example. Main point was that when you have an airport bang in the middle of the city, then ordinary metro line will be much better than airport express. AExp suits those cities more where airport is far outside the city, such as Blr or Hyd.
you dont need a metro line there.

however, in its defence, Colaba to mumbai airport distance is actually more by road than CP in Delhi to Delhi airport.

However in case of Delhi an airport express makes sense cause you have one huge airport which will be able to handle the traffic well into the future (2050)(i believe its built on 4500 acres giving it space to add a fourth and fifth runway in the future)

In case of mumbai this airport is going to reach max capacity soon. Another airport will have to built sooner or later somewhere. If its panvel or Kalyan its going to be atleast 35 km plus from the current airport. So it makes sense to have a high speed rail link between both the airports and spend money there so people can take connecting flights which are bound by short duration of time like 1 hour.


Spending all that money for the current airport and then further spending money for a high speed link from the navi mumbai/ka;yan airport is just too wasteful
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 11:31 PM   #2329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khargharboi View Post
It would be an hassle for people having luggages as the stoppage time would be less for the metro also it wouldnt be difficult for people to board a crowded metro with their luggage. Dedicated high speed connectivity would be required sooner or later.
Honestly, if you have a lot of luggage, find another way. I'd imagine the regular business traveler usually just has a carry on.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #2330
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Hey Ichi, I am back with my weapons, my maps . I guess it will help in explaining the issue better than just discussing. (If you feel this method of explanation is boring then tell me, I will try something other next time).

Now I would like to explain why we may not need an airport express in Mumbai with the help of the following 3 examples.

(1) Take the example of say Bangalore. (Please ignore if I make some mistakes, I am not that much aware of Bangalore).

Its airport is situated far outside the city. There is only 1 major road to connect the airport to the city (NH-7, I guess). So all people coming from whichever part of the city converge at NH-7 at or before Hebbal (north Bangalore).

From Hebbal, everybody moves in same direction on the same road. If you build an airport express on this route (NH-7), then you will tap all the people travelling to the airport as there are no other alternative routes to reach airport. If you build a station in the city centre, then it will cater to people from central, west, south and east B'lore. And a station at Hebbal will cater to north B'lore. Hence with one line you tap all the demand.

See the figure below. Metro line is red in colour, people's actual movement in black. Blue colour shows such travels are not possible (either because there is no alternative road from B'lore to airport or people do not visit airport from other sides).




(2) Second example is Delhi.

See the airport line in red and ring road in blue. People from north, central, east (+ Ghaziabad) and south-east (+ Noida) can collect at central Delhi by using different metro lines and then continue their journey by airport express.



People from north-west and parts of south (+ Faridabad) will reach ring road first and travel along it to reach Dhaula Kuan (DK) station on ring road and then board airport express to continue their journey.

Only those who will come from west Delhi, extreme south Delhi or south-west Delhi (+ Gurgaon) will not use airport express. Direct road journey will be much shorter for them.

So airport express in Delhi taps most of the demand but not all.


(3) Last example is Mumbai. Since the airport in the geographical centre of the city, people will come from all directions to this airport. Roughly, we can say there are 3 major directions - south, north-west (western suburbs), and north-east (eastern suburbs, Thane, Kalyan etc).

So you need 3 airport expresses here since all these 3 directions will give almost equal demand (or at least in future). Since the traffic gets divided over 3 lines, none of them will remain viable.

That's why airport express will not be suitable for CSIA, hence not planned IMO. However if Navi Mumbai airport gets built, then its location will be similar to that of IGI in Delhi, making airport express more viable.

Hence the airport express is best suited when airport is quite outside the city and least suited when it is quite within the city. Now I am answering the questions in particular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
however, in its defence, Colaba to mumbai airport distance is actually more by road than CP in Delhi to Delhi airport.
Yep. But the catchment area of CSIA-Colaba line is only the area lying along it, while the catchment area of CP-IGI is area much beyond CP. As I have shown in the Delhi map, lot of people will gather from beyond CP and collect there and then proceed to IGI. That thing is not possible in South Mumbai since there is nothing beyond Colaba but only sea.

Also I guess more people live in western and eastern suburbs than SoBo, so there are more people coming from these regions with potential to increase even further as Mumbai will expand on both these sides. In case of business visitors coming from outside, they will visit SoBo but with emergence of new office complexes in other parts of Mumbai, share of SoBo will plunge further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
However in case of Delhi an airport express makes sense cause you have one huge airport which will be able to handle the traffic well into the future (2050)(i believe its built on 4500 acres giving it space to add a fourth and fifth runway in the future)
Valid points. Not only it is big but also many people come from one particular direction making airport express more viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
In case of mumbai this airport is going to reach max capacity soon. Another airport will have to built sooner or later somewhere. If its panvel or Kalyan its going to be atleast 35 km plus from the current airport. So it makes sense to have a high speed rail link between both the airports and spend money there so people can take connecting flights which are bound by short duration of time like 1 hour.
Again very valid points. Ichi samajhdar ho gaya

Last edited by Abhishek901; April 24th, 2010 at 12:28 AM.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 12:43 AM   #2331
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I think your missing the point of usage of this link.

This is an attempt to connect the central business districts of Mumbai together with the airport

So the aim of this express link to for the business travellers who mostly travel light (unless they go on a shopping binge which many do, but while going back might be an issue) to use so that they can get to BKC-Worli/Parel-Fort/Nariman Point-Colaba with ease.

I dont think the intention of this line will be to run it at 135km per hour like delhi. More like 70-80km per hour operational speed with 5/6 stops (as mentioned above) along a 25km route.

To make it clear this line was never going to be for the aam air traveller the bulk of whom mostly lives in the burbs rather the foreign businessmen who want to get to their hotels and all within minutes from the airport.

All i am saying is that Mumbai does not have the money for all that right now. If we are to build a high speed link, let it be between the two airports.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #2332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
I dont think the intention of this line will be to run it at 135km per hour like delhi. More like 70-80km per hour operational speed with 5/6 stops (as mentioned above) along a 25km route.
It will become more like an ordinary metro line than an airport express. Why not add a few more station then

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
To make it clear this line was never going to be for the aam air traveller the bulk of whom mostly lives in the burbs rather the foreign businessmen who want to get to their hotels and all within minutes from the airport.
Yes, that's why I said aam aadmi will lose a lot if it is a dedicated airport link (with expensive tickets). You cannot have a parallel metro line for aam junta with airport express. They will have to continue suffering in suburban then because few rich people (airport travellers) denied their right to travel in a metro line.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 01:12 AM   #2333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
It will become more like an ordinary metro line than an airport express. Why not add a few more station then



Yes, that's why I said aam aadmi will lose a lot if it is a dedicated airport link (with expensive tickets). You cannot have a parallel metro line for aam junta with airport express. They will have to continue suffering in suburban then because few rich people (airport travellers) denied their right to travel in a metro line.

well i dont think aam aadmi will lose much or gain

cause Colaba to Bandra line will cover all the parts this route would have covered in sobo.

while Dahisar- Bandra -Mankhurd will cover the BKC areas in more detail (ie many stops in BKC unlike the 1-2 stops likely with this north south line)

All somebody will have to do is change trains at Bandra. Nothing more and nothing less...

My entire argument is based on unnecessary money spent rather than use as a metro line. I would not want a metro line along this route anyway even if they decide to have a metro link.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #2334
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i wonder how long they will keep the plastic covers on. the average indian car buyer keeps it on for at least a year doesnt he? maybe cut holes for the doors, but thats it
lol HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Old April 24th, 2010, 03:24 AM   #2335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
If we are to build a high speed link, let it be between the two airports.


It doesn't make sense to connect 2 international airports with a metro express line. When NMIA opens, someone who flies into CSIA will connect within CSIA. Someone who flies into NMIA would connect within NMIA.

There is no need to have a Metro Express link to link the 2 airports because fliers will not be shuttling between the 2 airports.

Fliers will be shuttling from the dense residential areas (usually the city center) to the airport.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 07:04 AM   #2336
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pls add latest pic on development of 1 st metro line
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Old April 24th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #2337
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Citizens protest Metro work on Bandra road


Ashley D’Mello | TNN


Mumbai: Citizens’ groups in the suburbs are furious that the MMRDA is continuing with their works on Linking Road in Bandra (West) for the second phase of Metro rail even when the Bombay high court is likely to hear a PIL on the issue.
The groups want an alternative route to the elevated plan of Metro Phase II, which is being planned from Charkop to Bandra to Mankhurd. The residents demand that from Andheri to Bandra, the route should be underground.
In a letter to chief minister Ashok Chavan the citizens groups have asked how could theMMRDA start the work when the matter was subjudice.
Aftab Siddique from 33
Road, Khar ALM, whose petition seeking an alternatibe route for the Metro has been turned into a PIL by the Bombay high court last month, said, “The MMRDA did not think it necessary to listen to the pleas of citizens and moreover, it does not seem to be even accountable to the courts of the land.’’ He added that the route along Linking Road would also dislocate more than 1,000 slum families in the west of the Bandra station. Bandra councillor Rehbar Khan had even taken a petition to the chief minister, telling him about how the elevated route would affect the livelihood of the people in the area.
MMRDA officials said they were conducting initial soil tests. The contract for the route has already been awarded to a consortium led by Reliance Infrastructure.
The citizens’ groups now plan a meeting at the administrative and political level.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...Mode=HTML&GZ=T
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Old April 24th, 2010, 09:24 AM   #2338
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Woow ... I didnt know it is called Reliance Metro !!!

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Old April 24th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #2339
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Free advertising for them
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Old April 24th, 2010, 09:58 AM   #2340
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It doesn't make sense to connect 2 international airports with a metro express line. When NMIA opens, someone who flies into CSIA will connect within CSIA. Someone who flies into NMIA would connect within NMIA.

There is no need to have a Metro Express link to link the 2 airports because fliers will not be shuttling between the 2 airports.

Fliers will be shuttling from the dense residential areas (usually the city center) to the airport.
well thats an ideal scenario.

Say you live in Surat (for example)

lets for assumptions say the only airline that goes to Mumbai from your airport is XYZ airways.

But they only operate at Navi Mumbai airport.

Now you are at Surat and have to goto South Africa which Jet airways operates from CSIA, So you chose the route

Surat---XYZ airlines to NMIA-----high speed link----Jet ariways to South Africa


As the Indian pop who uses the airports to travel locally or internationally you cant say for sure that people will just use the flights within the airport.

You are also assuming that other airports cover the same destinations. which i dont think will be the case. Say Mexico city will be covered by NMIA while not covered by CSIA

there are also other scenarios


say you find the cheapest way to fly from Surat to Mumbai is an airline which operates out of CSIA , then you find that the cheapest way to fly to NYC is an airline which operates out of NMIA. So you end up changing airports.
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