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Old December 11th, 2014, 04:17 AM   #4221
Scba
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I don't know how much atmosphere you're going to get when the stands are ten rows deep.
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Old December 11th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #4222
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So Toronto will have bigger capacity for soccer rather than football. Interesting, never thought that would happen in north america.
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Old December 12th, 2014, 06:53 AM   #4223
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Football has suffered a precipitous fall in Toronto over the last 40 years. It's the most catastrophic collapse witnessed by the domestic culture. There is no parallel in Canada/US.

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I don't know how much atmosphere you're going to get when the stands are ten rows deep.
Few universities here have significantly more rows than that. Even places like McMaster and Western would have less than 20 rows.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:36 AM   #4224
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Some interesting information from an Ottawa visit over the Christmas holidays. The Senators want to build a new arena close to the city centre at LeBreton Flats, a large, undeveloped tract of greenfield space just west of the city centre, not far from Parliament Hill.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/loca...le-breton-site

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/12/26/...will-take-time

It's a great site, close to the Ottawa River, with three bridges nearby to carry traffic over to Gatineau, Quebec. Plus the Riverside Parkway to carry traffic out to the west side of town. It's coveted by a number of developers, so it's hardly a sure thing the Senators will get it. But talk to locals - my relatives - and they all agree it's a no-brainer first choice.

Ottawa is in the early stages of developing a light rail transit system and this would be a natural impetus for further development into the city core.

I'd posted earlier about the disastrous state of the Civic Arena re-development at Lansdowne Park, where a football stadium project was completed earlier this year. Money has run dry and workers have basically put their tools down, leaving the 10,000-seat arena in a state of disrepair, with the upper level suites and press boxes unusable after being condemned.

Can't be a shock if the city doesn't want to spend any further funds on that project when a potential new NHL-calibre facility might get built within the city proper (right now, the Senators play 20km to the west in suburban Kanata). In all likelihood, if the new arena project were to be approved, it would probably be the responsibility of Jeff Hunt, owner of the Ottawa 67s junior hockey team - and member of the Landsdowne Sports and Entertainment Group - to foot the bill for any upgrades to the old barn.

Would he do it? Or would he move his team into the new arena? Would his junior team, currently struggling with dramatically falling attendance figures, even be able to survive with the NHL on their doorstep?
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:38 AM   #4225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashman View Post
Some interesting information from an Ottawa visit over the Christmas holidays. The Senators want to build a new arena close to the city centre at LeBreton Flats, a large, undeveloped tract of greenfield space just west of the city centre, not far from Parliament Hill.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/loca...le-breton-site

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/12/26/...will-take-time

It's a great site, close to the Ottawa River, with three bridges nearby to carry traffic over to Gatineau, Quebec. Plus the Riverside Parkway to carry traffic out to the west side of town.

Ottawa is in the early stages of developing a light rail transit system and this would be a natural impetus for further development into the city core.
Then what would happen to the Canadian Tire Centre?
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:49 AM   #4226
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Football has suffered a precipitous fall in Toronto over the last 40 years. It's the most catastrophic collapse witnessed by the domestic culture. There is no parallel in Canada/US.
Few universities here have significantly more rows than that. Even places like McMaster and Western would have less than 20 rows.
That's a bit of a dramatic overstatement, don't you think? Interest in the NFL has never been stronger in Toronto. The situation is like a water balloon - when it gets squeezed tight in one area, it pops up bigger in another.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #4227
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Then what would happen to the Canadian Tire Centre?
Well, as Neil Young might put it, "In the field of opportunity, it's plowing time again."
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Old December 28th, 2014, 01:18 PM   #4228
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That's a bit of a dramatic overstatement, don't you think?
Not at all. In 1976 the Argonauts posted average attendance of 47,355 in a metro of 2.8 million people. 2 generations later, average attendance has dropped 62% to 17,791 with more than double the population to draw from. That's a catastrophic decline by most people's standards and why we will now see our soccer team play in a larger capacity stadium than our football team. If the Argonauts had maintained the same level of support amongst Torontonians, they'd be drawing ~ 100,000 fans/game today.

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Interest in the NFL has never been stronger in Toronto. The situation is like a water balloon - when it gets squeezed tight in one area, it pops up bigger in another.
I mentioned a catastrophic decline in the domestic culture. The NFL is an imported culture if that really needed to be pointed out. NFL + CFL put together still doesn't come close to the level of support that football had in the 1970s. Football in all its forms has been is steady decline for a very very long time in this part of Canada.
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Last edited by isaidso; December 28th, 2014 at 01:41 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #4229
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Expand the league already. Playing 9 odd teams must be boring at times. It's about time there were at least 12.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #4230
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Oh, do carry on.

Lay it out for us - cities to play in and how the facilities to house those teams will get built.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 03:39 PM   #4231
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Expand the league already. Playing 9 odd teams must be boring at times. It's about time there were at least 12.
They already would have, if they could. But right now there is only so much TV money to go around, and the existing teams need the TV money to survive.

And then you get into the question of where do you put them. If the (lack of) TV money wasn't an issue and I was just sticking pins into the map, then I would add teams to Quebec City, either Moncton or Halifax, and somewhere between London, Kitchener or Windsor. Unfortunately there are not suitable venues in any of those locations, except Moncton (and that is a bit of a stretch).

Then you get into the issue of finding wealthy individuals to buy the expansion franchises. Those people just don't grow on trees.

Once you solve those big problems, there are others, but for now those issues are enough to keep the size of the league at nine.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:07 PM   #4232
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Zero chance of putting a team in Quebec City in the near future. They just dropped over $400 million to build a state of the art hockey arena which will, eventually, earn them a NHL franchise. That would basically dry up every dollar of corporate support. One would also have to consider whether the successful Remparts junior hockey team would remain in Quebec, operating under the wing of a NHL team the way junior clubs do in Calgary or Edmonton.

That arena will also serve as a cornerstone facility, along with a refurbished Colisee next door, in a bid for a future Winter Olympics.

Moncton? If one of the Irvings needed a tax write off for their collective wealth, this might be the lost cause to pursue. One of them owns the Wildcats junior hockey team, but it probably makes money. If one wanted to argue that Moncton could serve as a base for a region, Moncton doesn't remotely have the diversity of resources that places like London, Kitchener-Waterloo or even Saskatoon could offer.

Halifax would be a lovely addition to the league. Marketable identity, decent corporate presence, great city. And a big military presence to provide a natural audience for a contact sport.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 02:36 AM   #4233
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Université Laval is the big obstacle to CFL expansion in Quebec City not market size. Laval average close to 16,000 fans/game and want to maintain their football monopoly. Quebec City has a larger corporate base than Hamilton, Regina, Winnipeg, and roughly on par with Edmonton. There are 720,000 in the Capitale-Nationale and another 430,000 people in the adjacent Chaudière-Appalaches region to the south. This is a big market by Canadian standards.

Having lived in Halifax for 20 years, I fully agree that it's a no-brainer. As always, the issue is the stadium but that actually looks like it will get done this time around. A Halifax franchise would instantly become the dominant sports team in the whole region. They'd have to be completely incompetent to make a Halifax franchise fail.

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Expand the league already. Playing 9 odd teams must be boring at times. It's about time there were at least 12.
Football people in Canada recognize the need for a domestic league with more than 9 teams, but its not wise to expand for the sake of expansion. It must be done with strong ownership groups in place, appropriate stadia, solid corporate support, and incrementally 1 team at a time. Ottawa is a good example of every thing done right... and it shows. This is a franchise that will continue to see sell outs once the novelty wears off.

I'm confident we'll be at 10 teams by 2020 and 12 teams by 2030. There are only so many sizable markets in this country. 500,000 is about the minimum size market the national football league should enter. Regina is an outlier. Saskatchewan is, by far, the most football mad province in the nation.
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Last edited by isaidso; December 30th, 2014 at 03:54 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 11:30 AM   #4234
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A Canadian World Cup bid might just be the catalyst for new stadiums in Canadian cities, which would be built for Soccer and Canadian football in mind.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 04:46 PM   #4235
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I'm confident we'll be at 10 teams by 2020 and 12 teams by 2030.
Assuming a roughly five year period to get a new franchise up and running, doesn't that mean the CFL should be discussing the 10th franchise at their next meeting?
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