daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Scottish Architecture Forum

Scottish Architecture Forum Architecture, Design and Urban Development for for Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, and the rest of Scotland.



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 1st, 2006, 02:38 PM   #1
space_invader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: glasgow
Posts: 585
Likes (Received): 0

dumbarton rocks

Here we stand
Like an Adam and an Eve
Waterfalls
The Garden of Eden
Two fools in love
So beautiful and strong
The birds in the trees
Are smiling upon them
From the age of the dinosaurs
Cars have run on gasoline
Where, where have they gone?
Now, it's nothing but flowers

There was a factory
Now there are mountains and rivers
you got it, you got it

We caught a rattlesnake
Now we got something for dinner
we got it, we got it

There was a shopping mall
Now it's all covered with flowers
you've got it, you've got it

If this is paradise
I wish I had a lawnmower
you've got it, you've got it

Years ago
I was an angry young man
I'd pretend
That I was a billboard
Standing tall
By the side of the road
I fell in love
With a beautiful highway
This used to be real estate
Now it's only fields and trees
Where, where is the town
Now, it's nothing but flowers
The highways and cars
Were sacrificed for agriculture
I thought that we'd start over
But I guess I was wrong

Once there were parking lots
Now it's a peaceful oasis
you got it, you got it

This was a Pizza Hut
Now it's all covered with daisies
you got it, you got it

I miss the honky tonks,
Dairy Queens, and 7-Elevens
you got it, you got it

And as things fell apart
Nobody paid much attention
you got it, you got it

I dream of cherry pies,
Candy bars, and chocolate chip cookies
you got it, you got it

We used to microwave
Now we just eat nuts and berries
you got it, you got it

This was a discount store,
Now it's turned into a cornfield
you got it, you got it

Don't leave me stranded here
I can't get used to this lifestyle


written by someone from Dumbarton. (Bellsmyre to be precise)
space_invader no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old February 1st, 2006, 06:18 PM   #2
yawn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: glaswegia
Posts: 15
Likes (Received): 0

I know how he feels!
yawn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 01:58 PM   #3
yawn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: glaswegia
Posts: 15
Likes (Received): 0

This is my favourite from the same brain:

Everyone is trying to get to the bar.
The name of the bar, the bar is called Heaven.
The band in Heaven plays my favorite song.
They play it once again, they play it all night long.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

There is a party, everyone is there.
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time.
Its hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, and so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

When this kiss is over it will start again.
It will not be any different, it will be exactly
the same.
It's hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, could be so much fun.

Heaven is a place where nothing every happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing every happens.

*******************************************

the dark (but funny) opposite to Lennon's lily-white 'Imagine'.
yawn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 02:43 PM   #4
space_invader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: glasgow
Posts: 585
Likes (Received): 0

dude - I love that tune.

but check this,

from the sunday herald a couple of years ago:

He was born in Scotland, Dumbarton to be precise, and emigrated to Canada with his parents when he was two. Five years later, his sister Celia was born and the family moved to the USA, near Baltimore, where his father worked as an engineer.

According to Celia Byrne, now an epidemiologist specialising in breast cancer, the whole family felt like outsiders. Tommy and Emma Byrne never quite assimilated, and this rubbed off on the kids. It was clear to David and Celia that their parents held very different views to those of the other moms and dads who lived in the same blue-collar area. The Byrnes would sit around and discuss politics and social issues while listening to Scottish and Irish folk music; their home was a biosphere, a little bubble of post-war Scotland in the melting pot of Sixties America. The family regularly returned to Scotland to see grandparents; this again made them square pegs – most of the neighbourhood kids had never even been out of Maryland. “I remember when I was young my dad taking me to the Gorbals before most of it was torn down,” says Byrne, “just kind of dragging me over and going ‘Look, look, look at this.’ I guess that was meant to be a political and economic lesson: Look at this, this is modern Europe. It’s a shame that people are living like this.”
space_invader no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2006, 05:49 PM   #5
space_invader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: glasgow
Posts: 585
Likes (Received): 0

More good stuff from the former Clydesider and lead singer of Talking Heads.

from his blog:

"Long-term solution: Tear the damn things down. Admit that Le Corbusier and his legions of pseudo-followers were wrong, and fund people to build human-scale communities. THE SAME SHOULD BE DONE EVERYWHERE. N.Y., St Louis, Boston, London, Glasgow, Manchester, Brussels."

This is how Byrne's article begins:

12.2.05: Suggestions for France


A quote from Jane Jacobs’ The Death and Life of Great American Cities (1961):


To see complex systems of functional order as order, and not as chaos, takes understanding. The leaves dropping from the trees in autumn, the interior of an airplane engine, the entrails of a dissected rabbit, the city desk of a newspaper, all appear to be chaos if they are seen without comprehension. Once they are understood as systems of order, they actually look different.


It’s sort of ridiculous for me to presume to have insights here — but I assume that any citizen has the obligation to muse about the mess, wherever it is, as it is always closer to home than we think.

to read more.................http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2005/1..._le_corbu.html
space_invader no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2006, 02:17 PM   #6
a visitor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4
Likes (Received): 0

Hello, I'm a relative newcomer to the forum and haven't posted much before but I have been reading the debates with interest, thanks for the stimulus.

Interesting link, I'm attracted to the idea that 'mess' is an essential part of the human condition and we are fools to try and design it out:

"This hubris is often our undoing — the belief that our art and science can allow us to make grand designs that will, if done rigorously and “properly”, will allow us to sort out this messy world. Whether it be (sometimes) well-intentioned urban planning, genetic engineering or child rearing, our denial of our animal part creates true monsters. The desire to escape from the base “animal” is in fact a quick shortcut to beastie hell."

It's difficult for architects to try and design 'mess' in (well... difficult for some, very easy for others!) but the sanitisation can be kept at bay if the city chunk in one individual's hands is limited in size - Potzdammer Platz is a good example of the homogenisation that results when one architect gets to build too many bits of his own masterplan.

And yet if we give in to the mess completely we get endless low-rise-shed-car-park-bungalow sprawl. What would be the ideal ratio of mess to order? here we go trying to work out a formula/pattern again...
a visitor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2006, 02:54 PM   #7
space_invader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: glasgow
Posts: 585
Likes (Received): 0

a visitor?

well, thanks for your comments. You are not Yawn, are you? different voice, doubt it .

-----------------

anyway:

yeah, remember richard rogers suggested we should 'design in' hookers and junkies?

rem's up for this approach too, I believe. It’s the language that grates, rather than the no doubt well meaning intentions.

man, some architects think organic architecture can be found on a shelf in sainsburys.

all this windy talk - just do it, sucka.

incidentally: you want some propa chaos, mutha?

look to istanbul's core down town areas - galata, beyolu, nishantashi, sutanahmet, taksim - for chaos that seems organic and human rather than plain old terrifying or god forbid, 'designed'.

s'a good example - but dinnae call it a template. let’s stay away from ‘order’ just now.

get used to these district names peeps - the ‘Bul is the city of the 21st C - start learning all about it if you want to be relevant.

by the way, within a city of 13million, sitting on a tectonic faultline and the world's busiest water channel, the authorities have installed a major new tram system (yep, Istanbul is built on 7 hills too), an expanding underground system (despite layers and layers of archaeology barring the way, which have to be respected in the same way they would here) and an underwater rail link traversing the Bosphorus (busy busy busy Bosphorus)

problem is, most architects, are ‘tidiers’ - the profession seems to attract this kind of human in droves. so any talk of mess, immediately becomes something that must be ‘tidied’ into the programme.

shame really.

architects should ditch their dust pans for spray cans in my bizarre opinion this afternoon.

thanks for pushing my button, visitor.

i know who you are by the way.

get yer ass over here perma and start bossing this place matey.

space.d.
space_invader no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2006, 03:31 PM   #8
a visitor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4
Likes (Received): 0

ditch the dust pans? not likely.

the tidying instinct in many architects stems I think from the way design is taught but also the human desire to find pattern in the world as a way of making sense of things, the search for meaning.

there's a paradox at the heart of the design process - the attempt to make something 'perfect', the best solution, concept carried through to completion BUT if done too well it stifles, no room for human imperfections, messy real life to fit in.

links to Herzog quote about the tate modern and how they were trying to escape from the 'tyranny of perfection' (a great excuse for the snagging that never gets finished) and the notion of including a deliberate mistake in a carpet to express humility, only god could make something perfect.

The key to it seems to be expressing our minute human scale and suppressing our more grandiose god-like visions, let the one keep the other in equilibrium.
a visitor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2006, 05:04 PM   #9
space_invader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: glasgow
Posts: 585
Likes (Received): 0

you’re making a whole lot of sense to me visitor.

of course, you are right - re. pattern recognition. It's all we do.

Personally, i think all human experience can be reduced to 'hey, lookey-likey!'.

but that doesn't mean architects should recognise a pattern and then attempt to link it to something bigger (although I accept that this is not what you’re saying) that APPEARS to be the same.

I'd rather they simply added to the ‘mess’, to make it more beautiful.

Let the populace find their own patterns, instead of having architects point them out.

The whole Tabula Rasa thing will always be there for architects, malheuresement.

Ah mean, a white sheet of virginal A1 paper and the black void of Autocad essentially invite the same response:

Start again from scratch.
space_invader no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2006, 12:34 PM   #10
yawn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: glaswegia
Posts: 15
Likes (Received): 0

space invader.

I am yawn.

no one else is me.

I, yawn . . . . .
yawn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2006, 08:22 PM   #11
gweilo
Jacobsian sentimentalist
 
gweilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Hollywood
Posts: 818
Likes (Received): 1

mess mess mess. More of it please. Complex dense overlapping mess. It is the stuff of cities. Their essence and what gives them their vitality. We should celebrate it, for take it out and in creeps the plague of great dullness. Lose it and lose your city's identity and soul.

Been enjoying your posts guys. Reminds me of home, and god do I miss it sometimes. The cacophony, urban dance, and mess of Hong Kong's streetlife. How I'd love there to be a Temle Street market analog here. Butchered cows heads sitting on the pavement, and amateur Peking opera singers competing to drown each other out. All a joy to behold.

As Ms Jacobs would say:

' Does anyone suppose that, in real life, answers to any of the great questions that worry us today are going to come out of homogeneous settlements?'
__________________
'The future is already here – it's just not very evenly distributed.' William Gibson
gweilo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu