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Old December 4th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #10461
CroydonTown
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It really is opinion. I know people who don't like the styles going up in London at the moment.
Very true. But you have to agree, the al yaqoub tower is utterly dreadful. How anyone thought ripping off Big Ben for a skyscraper was a good idea is beyond me
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Old December 5th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #10462
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Very true. But you have to agree, the al yaqoub tower is utterly dreadful. How anyone thought ripping off Big Ben for a skyscraper was a good idea is beyond me
It does look a bit odd, I agree. But I only threw it in the mix with others to show there is so many interesting projects going on in Dubai and I mentioned three in terms of size that I could think of.

If you take umbrage to Al Yakoub take Infinity, take Al Hekma, whatever.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #10463
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What the hell happened to this thread???
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Old December 5th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #10464
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What the hell happened to this thread???
yea, lets get our shit together and make the construction moving. we need the pinnacle to rise!
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #10465
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If you take umbrage to Al Yakoub take Infinity, take Al Hekma, whatever.
Al Hekma's pretty vile too. Infinity is one of the handful of decent buildings Dubai, but even there the cladding is a disappointment, and the build quality is shoddy. None of these buildings are even remotely in the same class as the Shard or 122 Leadenhall.
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Last edited by Langur; December 5th, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #10466
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It really is opinion. I know people who don't like the styles going up in London at the moment.
Opinion of whom? Of brainless spotty kids on SSC who measure architectural value in terms of metres? It's certainly not the opinion of leading architects, nor indeed anyone with a modicum of taste or architectural appreciation. Most of the buildings in Dubai and other emerging cities are by D-list architects, and it shows. They look 3rd-rate even now, and it's clear they won't go down in architectural history. Instead they'll just look horribly dated and naff in a decade's time, just as Shanghai's cheap and nasty 1990s towers look today. By contrast great architecture stands the test of time, and will still be admired decades from now.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #10467
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You need to explain why you hold a view Langur, and justify it with example and detail. Saying things like it's all McShite, and if you don't agree with me you're just some brainless spotty kid isn't good enough here.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #10468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroydonTown View Post
Very true. But you have to agree, the al yaqoub tower is utterly dreadful. How anyone thought ripping off Big Ben for a skyscraper was a good idea is beyond me
lol probably the most hideous and tacky tower I have seen in my life. I don't think anyone likes that crap :P!

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Opinion of whom? Of brainless spotty kids on SSC who measure architectural value in terms of metres? It's certainly not the opinion of leading architects, nor indeed anyone with a modicum of taste or architectural appreciation. Most of the buildings in Dubai and other emerging cities are by D-list architects, and it shows. They look 3rd-rate even now, and it's clear they won't go down in architectural history. Instead they'll just look horribly dated and naff in a decade's time, just as Shanghai's cheap and nasty 1990s towers look today. By contrast great architecture stands the test of time, and will still be admired decades from now.
I disagree. He doesn't like the high tech, deconstructionism sort of design. It is true that he nor myself (Although I do like what's going up) are architects but it doesn't mean we can't have a view on the aesthetics of a tower.

As for quality you've used architect opinion (yes opinions!) and cost of the projects. I'm sure there are many factors that go in to the cost including labor cost. I can take one example of Perth, Australia where I'm from of our latest 200m tower. It's bland, and excessively expensive. The cost doesn't mean it's of a high standard, it's just that material costs, labor costs and the AUD isn't favorable for construction.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #10469
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Oh and as for dating, that can also be of opinion. I'm sure the Barbican centre was an expensive and "high quality" project of it's time but I personally think it has dated horribly and doesn't stack up to the test of time. Styles change, attitudes change, nothing built today will still have that cutting edge feel about it in 20, 30 or 40 years time, no matter how shiny and expensive it is and which high profile architect was used.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #10470
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but its a listed building so it has stood some sort of test of time, how many buildings in Perth and Dubai from the last 40 years will be listed?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #10471
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It's still an opinion on its aesthetic value. Some people like it, some people hate it. As for Dubai, there are a lot of people who like it's tackyness, and might do so in the decades to come.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #10472
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You need to explain why you hold a view Langur, and justify it with example and detail. Saying things like it's all McShite, and if you don't agree with me you're just some brainless spotty kid isn't good enough here.
Read back over the last two pages and you'll see that's exactly what I've done. I've produced tons of images illustrating exactly what I mean by "green glass McShite", and presented my arguments in full.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #10473
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As for quality you've used architect opinion (yes opinions!) and cost of the projects.
Yes, but my opinion does largely accord with the opinion of the leaders in the field, and that's worth a damn. Architects respect the Pritzker Prize because they respect the people who've won it. If they thought the judgements were meaningless or wrong, they wouldn't covet the prize so much. The profession wouldn't accord it such esteem and prestige.
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Originally Posted by Bullswool View Post
I'm sure there are many factors that go in to the cost including labor cost. I can take one example of Perth, Australia where I'm from of our latest 200m tower. It's bland, and excessively expensive. The cost doesn't mean it's of a high standard, it's just that material costs, labor costs and the AUD isn't favorable for construction.
I dodn't say cost had anything to do with aesthetics. I'm sure that monster in Mecca cost a lot but is hideous. I was using the colossal value of London projects to counter his argument that London was being unambitious and failing to keep up in the C21st. And it's true what I say, London's projects are much bigger in financial terms than anything in New York, Chicago, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #10474
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I see now why threads for inactive projects get locked
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #10475
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I was using the colossal value of London projects to counter his argument that London was being unambitious and failing to keep up in the C21st. And it's true what I say, London's projects are much bigger in financial terms than anything in New York, Chicago, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc.
Langur, I already told you that this does not cut it. You use thameslink, crossrail, heathrow and high-speed as examples of how ambitious and 21century London's building construction is? I mean, seriously, man, pull another leg. And the need for all these projects which my taxes pay for, comes from horrendous mistakes in London planning and construction populating it with 1,2 storey buildings for tens of miles.

I told you about dozens or so skyscrapers being built in Dubai. I can tell you dozens and dozens more in Shanghai, NYC, Chicago, HK. You term most of them tacky and tasteless which is a bit hypocritical and rich given the slim offerings we have in London. Shard is ok (by no means spectacular as it will lose hands-down against the top buildings of HK, NYC, Dubai and Shanghai), Leadenhall is atrocious IMHO and WT is ok. What else, may I ask you? NOTHING. 1 Commercial St, Alie St, St Georges. You would not even notice projects like that in the cities I mentioned. I cannot think of anything else worth mentioning. Maybe Providence tower, but again it is too small. That's pretty much it. For a megapolis of 8 million. So, excuse me, I will be taking your criticism with a big pinch of salt. Especially after you called Kings Cross "handsome". You really need to have the balls of an elephant to criticize any of Dubai's new developments after that.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #10476
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Remember when this forum used to be about architecture?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #10477
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And the need for all these projects which my taxes pay for, comes from horrendous mistakes in London planning and construction populating it with 1,2 storey buildings for tens of miles.
So you are saying too many 1,2 strorey buildings in London explains why we need to build transport projects to allieve congestion on the underground and shorten cross-London journeys? Because if you are then your assertion is devoid of logic.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #10478
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And as for Marina Bay in Singapore, I copy and paste a debate I had recently with my friend.

Another photo from another angle just in case you're in any doubt...
That's ghastly!
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #10479
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Bowater - I firmly believe that all population of London could easily fit inside the Inner London territory if land was more wisely used in London. Then it would be completely different game for London transport, don't you think?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #10480
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Langur, I already told you that this does not cut it. You use thameslink, crossrail, heathrow and high-speed as examples of how ambitious and 21century London's building construction is? I mean, seriously, man, pull another leg. And the need for all these projects which my taxes pay for, comes from horrendous mistakes in London planning and construction populating it with 1,2 storey buildings for tens of miles.

I told you about dozens or so skyscrapers being built in Dubai. I can tell you dozens and dozens more in Shanghai, NYC, Chicago, HK. You term most of them tacky and tasteless which is a bit hypocritical and rich given the slim offerings we have in London. Shard is ok (by no means spectacular as it will lose hands-down against the top buildings of HK, NYC, Dubai and Shanghai), Leadenhall is atrocious IMHO and WT is ok. What else, may I ask you? NOTHING. 1 Commercial St, Alie St, St Georges. You would not even notice projects like that in the cities I mentioned. I cannot think of anything else worth mentioning. Maybe Providence tower, but again it is too small. That's pretty much it. For a megapolis of 8 million. So, excuse me, I will be taking your criticism with a big pinch of salt. Especially after you called Kings Cross "handsome". You really need to have the balls of an elephant to criticize any of Dubai's new developments after that.
The likes of Dubai and Shanghai are my idea of urban nightmares - visions of hell.

God forbid that London should ever go down that path - even in a small way.
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