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Old January 10th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #10581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesquip View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see the curved plan and slight taper changed to angular and vertical, whilst keeping the same overall shape and spiral crown. Crystaline, rather than organic.
I've also always though this would be the best option. It could I reckon be reduced to 250m but anything under is a waste of time. It's the Pinnacle and hence the position within the cluster.

I would see the corners being squared off more, still rounded but more of a boxy shape so they the floorplates (one of the major sticking points) being more standard. The crown would remain, but as you've stated more boxed and straight and therefore cheaper to design and clad.

Really though this would require the application to be changed which would be a lengthly process and I am not sure if they would want to go this far esp with the core, etc in place already.

They will probably try to value engineer the cladding (as mentioned) and perhaps the construction process.

Either way I wouldn't get too excited because I still still see this not moving for another year or so.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #10582
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Pinnacle developers target extra £500m as Brookfield retained

Exclusive: The Pinnacle’s developers are seeking £500m of extra funding to complete construction after renewing their loan with HSH Nordbank and confirming Brookfield Multiplex as the main contractor for remaining work.


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potential no major re-design then?
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Old January 11th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #10583
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Still months before we see any activity on site I bet, but at least it shows they're determined to get it built, no matter how long it takes.

This is now more likely to be a question of 'when' not 'if', which is more than could be said 12mths ago...
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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #10584
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Better news than I was expecting.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #10585
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Yep, there's still a pulse.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #10586
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This tower should not be reduced in height, nor should the quality be compromised. It's going to be the tallest in the City of London cluster, so it needs to be special. Either build it to be the iconic tower that it needs to be, or don't build it at all.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #10587
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With the recent news of a number of residential high rises plus a couple of large office projects to start in the next couple of years in CW, Vauxhall, South Bank and the City, it sounds like there is a little confidence returning to the construction market - which is good for this project.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #10588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potto View Post
Pinnacle developers target extra £500m as Brookfield retained

Exclusive: The Pinnacle’s developers are seeking £500m of extra funding to complete construction after renewing their loan with HSH Nordbank and confirming Brookfield Multiplex as the main contractor for remaining work.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

potential no major re-design then?
Does this main after they little hissy fit BM will put all their signs back on the cranes and hoarding?

Btw, where is Sony33?
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Old January 13th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #10589
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more on it:
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...s-16m-pay-row/

Pinnacle to change shape as £16m pay row settled
Grant Prior | Wed 9th January | 12:39


inShare
4
Main contractor Brookfield Multiplex is looking at ways of cutting construction costs on the stalled Pinnacle tower after settling a £16m legal wrangle with the developers.

Work stopped on the City of London site last January as the developers struggled to raise funds for the tower.

Brookfield Multiplex launched a legal claim for outstanding payments late last year against the Pinnacle owners who were ordered to pay the firm £16m.

Brookfield Multiplex has now confirmed it has reached a settlement and will now work with the developers to get the scheme going again.

A company statement said: “Brookfield Multiplex can confirm that an agreement has been reached on outstanding payments relating to construction work already carried out and as part of the settlement Brookfield Multiplex will now work with the investors to refine the scheme
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Old January 14th, 2013, 05:46 AM   #10590
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good news, i shall subscribe to this thread again
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Old January 14th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #10591
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Good news and now is this thread interesting again.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #10592
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refine or make it more bland?
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Old January 14th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #10593
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Both excited and worries about what may come of this. I'll reserve myself until new renders are shown.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #10594
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Original tower design to remain intact (going through planning again would be costly and add further uncertainty) with the exception of the cladding which will be simplified to reduce costs.
Original investors will be asked to write-off part of their investment on the basis that 70% of something being better than 100% of nothing. Scheme to go ahead with Brookfield as contractor and part developer.
How do I know?? - well, I don't. But I bet that's the way it will go.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #10595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whittonstall View Post
Original tower design to remain intact (going through planning again would be costly and add further uncertainty) with the exception of the cladding which will be simplified to reduce costs.
Original investors will be asked to write-off part of their investment on the basis that 70% of something being better than 100% of nothing. Scheme to go ahead with Brookfield as contractor and part developer.
How do I know?? - well, I don't. But I bet that's the way it will go.
It depends whether or not there is a perception that the struggle to get a pre-let has been as a result of the tower design.

If so, a re-design might be seen as the best way to move forwards.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #10596
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Originally Posted by rickster2k View Post
I've also always though this would be the best option. It could I reckon be reduced to 250m but anything under is a waste of time. It's the Pinnacle and hence the position within the cluster.

I would see the corners being squared off more, still rounded but more of a boxy shape so they the floorplates (one of the major sticking points) being more standard. The crown would remain, but as you've stated more boxed and straight and therefore cheaper to design and clad.

Really though this would require the application to be changed which would be a lengthly process and I am not sure if they would want to go this far esp with the core, etc in place already.

They will probably try to value engineer the cladding (as mentioned) and perhaps the construction process.

Either way I wouldn't get too excited because I still still see this not moving for another year or so.
That sounds about right to me. The only exception is that I would see no reason to reduce the height. In for a penny in for a pound, and if you build a lettable skyscraper in the City, you would get more rent for the kudos of it being the tallest. But it has to be lettable. The current design I fear just isn't. It's been too compromised in plan in the effort to get a 'clever' shape. That will be reflected in the rent you would get, and if you're building tall, you need top rents to fund it.

Look at the Shard, it too is struggling to find tenants and its floorplans are much better, albeit still compromised. The difference is that their business plan is far more robust. They can afford to take their time finding office tenants as they have the Shangri-La hotel as an anchor tenant before they even started on site. That would cover the interest payments at least. They'll fill it up slowly - no doubt - but they won't drop their price. In the meantime, The Place will let easily I would have thought and they will have an iconic building above a growing commercial district and newly rebuilt station that they can slowly fill a floor or two at a time.

All this is worth bearing in mind when looking at willfully daft shaped buildings. This isn't Dubai, these things are built for hard-nosed commercial reasons in London, and have to pay their way.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #10597
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Well, around half of the new office spaces in EC2 skyscrapers (20FC, Leadenhall) is now pre-let or (about to be) let (Heron) thanks essentially to the undertakings and professional services. Meanwhile the banking industry is recovering. From an economic viewpoint, it makes more sense today to build the Pinnacle, with a delivery date around 2017, than it was a year before, given the future projected evolution of demand and supply, hence rents, and return on investments. The question is, are they prepared to build it speculatively?
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Old January 14th, 2013, 09:44 PM   #10598
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And that is the million dollar question.

This all really ends up in a vicious circle. Do they go through a lengthly redesign and re-application and try to either get a pre-let (which I imagine without the finalised design would be difficult) or try to do something like BL did with Oxford Properties at 122L.

Either way it ends up going full circle because although BM are back willing to build they won't start until they get funding or a pre-let and the developers struggled last time to get both.

I can't personally see this being build without a substantial pre-let and that would be me infer a re-design to make the floorplates more attractive.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 02:37 AM   #10599
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Have they published any plans of the floorplates? I'm struggling to understand quite how the floor shape is such an issue, I guess I didn't realise how much companies just want straight-forward squares?
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Old January 15th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #10600
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Quote:
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Have they published any plans of the floorplates?
See City of London - development & planning - Planning applications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian141 View Post
I'm struggling to understand quite how the floor shape is such an issue, I guess I didn't realise how much companies just want straight-forward squares?
Is it really an issue?

Floorspace depends on the floor. This plan shows level 21 as compared to floor plan.

image hosted on flickr
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