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Old February 10th, 2007, 01:37 AM   #61
Fusionist
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some ideas for integrated public transportation approach. Excuse if something seems askew as I am not that familiar with the OMR parts of Chennai.

1. Move the existing Thiruvanmiyur MTC depot to the OMR ( along the Buckingham Canal side ) just south of Thiruvanmiyur MRTS station. Make a footbridge across the road connecting MRTS and MTC depot.

a. More southbound MTC buses from the new THiruvanmiyur bus depot along the OMR, so that people from the south can take a bus journey to Thruvanmiyur MTC depot and make a transit to the MRTS to go to northbound to Chennai.

b. Make provisions for possible expansion of MRTS south along the OMR from THiruvanmiyur in the future. Possibly expand the station to 4 platforms.

2. Move the Vijayanagar MTC depot down the road adjuscent to the MRTS station. Yet another MTC/MRTS transit hub.

3. For god sake make the MRTS stations well connected with a 4 lane road atleast.. possibly a road along the MRTS line from Velachery towards OMR ?

4. Build multi level 2 wheeler parking/car parking in ALL the new MRTS stations or adjuscent to it. This way people can take a short ride to the station and take on the longer journey by train.

[IMG]http://i6.************/42xxca0.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by Fusionist; February 10th, 2007 at 02:23 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionist View Post
some ideas for integrated public transportation approach. Excuse if something seems askew as I am not that familiar with the OMR parts of Chennai.
Good Thinking Fusionist! Lets discuss point by point

1. Move the existing Thiruvanmiyur MTC depot to the OMR ( along the Buckingham Canal side ) just south of Thiruvanmiyur MRTS station. Make a footbridge across the road connecting MRTS and MTC depot.

A new Bus terminal adjacent to the Thiruvanmiyur MRTS station is being plnned. Ground has been levelled upto the bridge opp ELNET.

a. More southbound MTC buses from the new THiruvanmiyur bus depot along the OMR, so that people from the south can take a bus journey to Thruvanmiyur MTC depot and make a transit to the MRTS to go to northbound to Chennai.

Similar Thinking has been planned. But Velachery Terminus will be the main hub and not Thiruvanmiyur MRTS.

b. Make provisions for possible expansion of MRTS south along the OMR from THiruvanmiyur in the future. Possibly expand the station to 4 platforms.

Proposal has been given to the MOS Railways for the extension of the MRTS along B.Canal upto Mahabs. We will keep the fingers crossed.

2. Move the Vijayanagar MTC depot down the road adjuscent to the MRTS station. Yet another MTC/MRTS transit hub.

A big bus terminal with lots of parking for 2 wheelers has been proposed. When that will be done is a big question.

3. For god sake make the MRTS stations well connected with a 4 lane road atleast.. possibly a road along the MRTS line from Velachery towards OMR ?

It is not possible. Already the Taramani Velachery road runs parellel close to the MRTS.

4. Build multi level 2 wheeler parking/car parking in ALL the new MRTS stations or adjuscent to it. This way people can take a short ride to the station and take on the longer journey by train.

Where is the space? Already B. canal has been gobbled up for MRTS.

[IMG]http://i6.************/42xxca0.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks Fusionist. Pl contribute more on these lines.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #63
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about point 4, how big are the basement parking facilities at the stations? should be a decent area i think..

also, i think the MTC should introduce low floor ac buses along the IT Corridor when it's complete, and then widen the service to cover the whole city by say 2010.. that kind of service will be genuinely tempting for commuters to switch from private transport - unlike the current fleet of buses and MRTS trains..

oh and they should also introduce sleek ac coaches on the MRTS - they should actually have done that in the first place..
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Old February 10th, 2007, 06:11 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannan infratech
More southbound MTC buses from the new THiruvanmiyur bus depot along the OMR, so that people from the south can take a bus journey to Thruvanmiyur MTC depot and make a transit to the MRTS to go to northbound to Chennai.

Similar Thinking has been planned. But Velachery Terminus will be the main hub and not Thiruvanmiyur MRTS.
Yes Velacherry certainly needs to me made a Hub MRTS/MTC and vehicle parking. But I would think making the Thruvanmiyur MRTS region a hub is also very important:

Gives access to the MRTS for the commuters from ECR regions. Right now the buses along the ECR will have to congest the Thiruvanmiyur-Adayar stretch of road. Instead make passengers from ECR transit at Thruvanmiyur MRTS by building the new bus depot there and terminating more services ( cutservices ). This will increase patronage to the MRTS aswell which in turn can increse its frequency.


About parking facility, is it being planned only at Velacherry ? How about Tharamani/ Kasthurbhai Nagar/ Kotturpuram stations ? Is there any possiblitiy. How good is the accesibility to these stations now ?

Last edited by Fusionist; February 10th, 2007 at 08:15 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #65
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also, i think the MTC should introduce low floor ac buses along the IT Corridor when it's complete, and then widen the service to cover the whole city by say 2010.. that kind of service will be genuinely tempting for commuters to switch from private transport - unlike the current fleet of buses and MRTS trains..
From an article posted before by Anniyan, there actually is a demand for quality busses from the IT firms dotting the IT Highway. MTC shoud takeup this offer to try out new buses. There is even local technology, Tata Starbuses wold do fine.

Tata Starbus ( non AC ). Low floor/ disability access. Makes easy for older people to get into the bus ( no steps to climb ).




I would suggest both AC and non-AC version of lowfloor busses need to be introduced on a trial basis to run along the OMR, and later can be induced inot other routes based on success.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannan infratech View Post
Good Thinking Fusionist! Lets discuss point by point

1. Move the existing Thiruvanmiyur MTC depot to the OMR ( along the Buckingham Canal side ) just south of Thiruvanmiyur MRTS station. Make a footbridge across the road connecting MRTS and MTC depot.

A new Bus terminal adjacent to the Thiruvanmiyur MRTS station is being plnned. Ground has been levelled upto the bridge opp ELNET.

a. More southbound MTC buses from the new THiruvanmiyur bus depot along the OMR, so that people from the south can take a bus journey to Thruvanmiyur MTC depot and make a transit to the MRTS to go to northbound to Chennai.

Similar Thinking has been planned. But Velachery Terminus will be the main hub and not Thiruvanmiyur MRTS.

b. Make provisions for possible expansion of MRTS south along the OMR from THiruvanmiyur in the future. Possibly expand the station to 4 platforms.

Proposal has been given to the MOS Railways for the extension of the MRTS along B.Canal upto Mahabs. We will keep the fingers crossed.

2. Move the Vijayanagar MTC depot down the road adjuscent to the MRTS station. Yet another MTC/MRTS transit hub.

A big bus terminal with lots of parking for 2 wheelers has been proposed. When that will be done is a big question.

3. For god sake make the MRTS stations well connected with a 4 lane road atleast.. possibly a road along the MRTS line from Velachery towards OMR ?

It is not possible. Already the Taramani Velachery road runs parellel close to the MRTS.

4. Build multi level 2 wheeler parking/car parking in ALL the new MRTS stations or adjuscent to it. This way people can take a short ride to the station and take on the longer journey by train.

Where is the space? Already B. canal has been gobbled up for MRTS.

[IMG]http://i6.************/42xxca0.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks Fusionist. Pl contribute more on these lines.
May I suggest a multi-level bus terminus similar to PABT (Port Authority Bus Terminus) in New York? This is a multi-storeyed structure with multiple gates - each bus route number starts at a specific gate. The gates are located on the periphery of the building - this allows to leave the periphery open, to take care of ventilation issues. The inside is used for passenger movement and shopping, and also some amount of the interior is used for the interchange of buses.

They can also use hydraulic elevators to move the buses up and down, which is not done in New York. This can be a first in the country or even in the continent (or perhaps the world - I'm not sure). They can use this technique to move the buses to the loading gates, or to parking aprons when they are not servicing the passengers (multiple buses on the same route when they await their turn), or when they are sent to the cleaning lots where they can be washed or vaccumed.

There is a subway station in the underground level of the same building. This helps for intermodal transportation. This will free up a lot of valuable land space for park and ride (parking) lots.

Can one of you who is in touch with the civic authorities pass this along before it's too late, pretty please.

Here is a link to the PABT for an example. It's the busiest bus terminus in the world. I think we can do even better. They can actually do this for Parrys corner bus stand.

http://www.panynj.gov/DoingBusinessW...html/pabt.html
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Old February 14th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #67
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In fact, they can build multi-level bus terminals adjacent to these existing or future train stations - Tambaram, High Court, Velachery, Koyambedu, Avadi, Ponneri, Tiruvallur, Chengalput, Egmore. With the freed space, we need to build more park and ride lots in the peripheral stations, and shops and cafes within the bus and train stations.

There needs to be high-speed moving walkways or atleast dedicated enclosed walkways similar to airports between the train station and the bus station. Of course there need to be wide enough escalators for the majority of the passengers, and lifts for handicapped passengers or those with heavy luggage. The commuter shouldn't have to walk on the road while walking between the train station, bus station and the parking lot.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 01:33 PM   #68
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Okay, here's a rough plan that I drew. The diagram shows a single floor of the multi-storeyed structure.

Small scale:


Full size (click):


It's a 1:200 scale, and the entire structure will be 167m x 150m in real life. This can be redesigned for the needs and land availability. It's easily scalable by increasing the number of floors and adding high-speed vehicle elevators.

The bus terminal can accommodate nearly 15 buses on boarding floors and 50 buses on non-passenger-servicing floors. The parking structure can accommodate 60 cars and 150 two-wheelers on each floor.

The structure can also have a 10 platform train station along the X-axis in the underground level. The bridges and underground ramps connect the two structures. There will be elevators to the train station from both the buildings.

The bus terminal building will have toilets, restaurants, cafes, bars, shops, phones, emergency services and so on. The parking building will have toilets and vehicle rental services.

The road in between the two buildings will have ground transportation - drop off and pick up for private vehicles and taxis. The roads above and below the structures will have buses (that do not enter the terminal) dropping off and picking up people. These can be reconfigured based on traffic into and around the transportation hub.

The bus terminal can house both local and long distance bus services, and similarly for the train terminal underground. The parking structure will have both reserved (for regular commuters) and open (for occasional commuters) parking stalls.

The lower floors will have short term parking, the upper floors will have long term parking. The top-most floor will have the rental services. Both the bus terminal and the parking structure will have both vehicle ramps and lifts, and pedestrian escalators and lifts.

How about that?

Last edited by Tron; February 14th, 2007 at 01:39 PM.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 01:46 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron View Post
Okay, here's a rough plan that I drew. The diagram shows a single floor of the multi-storeyed structure.

Small scale:


Full size (click):


It's a 1:200 scale, and the entire structure will be 167m x 150m in real life. This can be redesigned for the needs and land availability. It's easily scalable by increasing the number of floors and adding high-speed vehicle elevators.

The bus terminal can accommodate nearly 15 buses on boarding floors and 50 buses on non-passenger-servicing floors. The parking structure can accommodate 60 cars and 150 two-wheelers on each floor.

The structure can also have a 10 platform train station along the X-axis in the underground level. The bridges and underground ramps connect the two structures. There will be elevators to the train station from both the buildings.

The bus terminal building will have toilets, restaurants, cafes, bars, shops, phones, emergency services and so on. The parking building will have toilets and vehicle rental services.

The road in between the two buildings will have ground transportation - drop off and pick up for private vehicles and taxis. The roads above and below the structures will have buses (that do not enter the terminal) dropping off and picking up people. These can be reconfigured based on traffic into and around the transportation hub.

The bus terminal can house both local and long distance bus services, and similarly for the train terminal underground. The parking structure will have both reserved (for regular commuters) and open (for occasional commuters) parking stalls.

The lower floors will have short term parking, the upper floors will have long term parking. The top-most floor will have the rental services. Both the bus terminal and the parking structure will have both vehicle ramps and lifts, and pedestrian escalators and lifts.

How about that?
Fantastic plan Tron. Wondering if this will ever get into the talks of the planners. Looks expensive, but at the same time also looks pretty good as a long term plan and one that can give the builders a decent return on investment.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #70
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Fantastic plan Tron. Wondering if this will ever get into the talks of the planners. Looks expensive, but at the same time also looks pretty good as a long term plan and one that can give the builders a decent return on investment.
It can actually be done considerably cheaper than building something of this capacity on a single level - think of the cost of land for accommodating so many buses and parking spots. Besides that, if it's on a single level, people will keep crossing the traffic everywhere, so it has to be at least two levels + one more level for the train (either under or above the ground).

This also provides canopy for passenger movement. It will cost a very large amount to provide canopy, which I think is necessary considering the Chennai monsoons. If we monetize the time that the passengers will spend navigating the terminal, a smaller spread on multi level will add significant cost savings.

Finally, we can generate revenue by leasing the shopping areas and the food courts. An integrated bus + train + taxi + private cars/bikes approach will increase the number of people using public transport, especially if we combine both long distance and local transportation in a single complex. The private long distance bus operators, and also the public transport corporation will pay access fees to use the terminal. We can also have a non-stop express train from this terminal to the airport. This will generate plenty of revenue, and will help to break even much faster than any other alternative that I can think of.

I wonder if any of the forumers can take this plan to the Chennai city planning authorities. Cheers!
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Old February 14th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #71
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dupe. gone. poof!
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Old February 14th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #72
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I thought again about this, and a similar four level structure can be constructed at many of the existing metro stations. All the current metro stations take up too much space, but the nice thing is that they are single level. For example, think of Chennai Central and Egmore (the platform area, excluding the terminal building), and any other suburban station, especially the nodal ones such as Tambaram, Avadi, Fort, etc.

We can leave the train station be on the ground level. On the first floor, build a city bus station. On the second floor, build a park and ride (parking) lot. On the third floor, build shopping, food court, etc. Putting this on the top level will also provide nice views to sit along the window and eat, etc. Now, this will not need any vehicle elevators, and the ramps will be very modest too. The ground area is already available whereever there is a suburban station.

Considering the vast amount of space that the platforms and the railway tracks just past the Central station take -- with the long distance and suburban train stations -- we can build a world class structure covering this area at a very reasonable cost with great returns. In fact, we can also let the long distance buses into this terminal without worrying about parking space. That would be one hell of an intermodal transportation hub.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #73
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Car Parking - suggestion

The Chennai Corporation should paint the pavement sides with a colour code to help road users know which road sides are pen for parking and which are not. The current no parking sign posts are not clear enough and no one follwos the distance specification on these sign posts(like no parking for 100 mts etc.). With the colour code on the pavement side, road users will be able to tell where exactly along the road side is parking prohibited. This will also ease enforcement as any vehicle found parked besides a no-parking colour code can be easily booked.

The CC could paint the pavement sidewalks red and white or yellow and black or whatever to distinguish road sides where parking is prohibited.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 11:54 PM   #74
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Car Parking - suggestion

The Chennai Corporation should paint the pavement sides with a colour code to help road users know which road sides are pen for parking and which are not. The current no parking sign posts are not clear enough and no one follwos the distance specification on these sign posts(like no parking for 100 mts etc.). With the colour code on the pavement side, road users will be able to tell where exactly along the road side is parking prohibited. This will also ease enforcement as any vehicle found parked besides a no-parking colour code can be easily booked.

The CC could paint the pavement sidewalks red and white or yellow and black or whatever to distinguish road sides where parking is prohibited.
Normally, the color code followed is:

White curb: Parking allowed
Yellow curb: No parking, violators fined (or towed if indicated on the sign).
Red curb: No parking (fire lane), violators towed.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 07:00 PM   #75
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Thanks Tron for the great effort. Multi Level Bus Terminus is a very new concept.

We were trying to convince the authorities to go for automated multi level car parks in the busy areas of Chennai like T Nagar, Purasawalkam, High Court, Velachery, Koyambedu, Mount Road behind Shakthi Towers etc. In one of the FICCI meetings with CM & Industries Dept officials, a video on ML Car parking was shown and CM evinced keen interest.

The catch is to make it work as a Public Private Partnership model. The revenue versus the expenses did not match. Subsidy by the Govt is a possibility but the very concept goes against the model. There were suggestions to sell these places at cost + profit to the shop owners and users in the respective areas.

If more space is available, the ramp model is possible and at a lower price.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 10:48 PM   #76
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Thanks Tron for the great effort. Multi Level Bus Terminus is a very new concept.

We were trying to convince the authorities to go for automated multi level car parks in the busy areas of Chennai like T Nagar, Purasawalkam, High Court, Velachery, Koyambedu, Mount Road behind Shakthi Towers etc. In one of the FICCI meetings with CM & Industries Dept officials, a video on ML Car parking was shown and CM evinced keen interest.

The catch is to make it work as a Public Private Partnership model. The revenue versus the expenses did not match. Subsidy by the Govt is a possibility but the very concept goes against the model. There were suggestions to sell these places at cost + profit to the shop owners and users in the respective areas.

If more space is available, the ramp model is possible and at a lower price.
Oh yes, use of lifts (elevators) in multi-level car parks reduce the space used by the ramps. There are two ways of doing this
- use elevators only for vertical movement and a human (preferably parking valet) drives the car on individual floors to the specific slot, or
- use parking robots that move the cars vertically, and then horizontally and put it in a specific slot. Then they will retrieve it and deliver on the ground floor on demand.

Both these models use significantly less space. We can leapfrog multi-level ramp accessible parking structures, and go straight to these elevator accessible structures.
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Old February 17th, 2007, 05:58 AM   #77
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Normally, the color code followed is:

White curb: Parking allowed
Yellow curb: No parking, violators fined (or towed if indicated on the sign).
Red curb: No parking (fire lane), violators towed.
Great !!! I think this is an easily implementable solution to regulate parking.
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Old February 17th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #78
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the first step to having colour-coded pavement curbs is to have good pavements everywhere in the city..
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Old February 17th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #79
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the pavements that exists are too high from the road level. the pavement hieght needs to be lowered.
Apart from that the few existing pavements need to be cleaned in order for it to be used.
All trees on the pavements especially on the mainroads should be removed. If it can be transplanted its good or the trees should be junked. Pls note : I am refering to the trees only on the main roads' pavements.
Lastly the roads should have marked lanes. Once the vehicles start plying on the lanes close to the pavement ,people will start walking on pavement. Also in the process of marking lanes it could be checked if the width oof the pave ment can be extended

This would work for the pavements like in RK salai but in many other main roads, there is a bigger issue of enchroachments or street vendors. These businesses gotta go.

Last edited by WillyWick; February 17th, 2007 at 06:01 PM.
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Old February 17th, 2007, 05:54 PM   #80
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about the multi level bus depot..

I will agree that it is new technology and might not suit a transportation system like MTC that still has buses with open door and footboard passengers. Perhaps if it is to be introduced the SETC might have to set the example, but with KMBD already inplace I don't see that happewning.

Multi level car park however is a must.

about colour coding pavements..

yes it is very much pointless unless there are walkable and pedestrain friendly pavement first of all.
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