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Old June 14th, 2007, 09:50 AM   #21
GENIUS LOCI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Don't forget 150 km/h (93 mph) speed limit on some 6-lane motorways.
It was just a proposal of the past governement: for stretches with 3 lanes per direction or more


For now max. speed limits are 130 km/h and I don't think they're gonna change in next future
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Old June 14th, 2007, 11:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von K÷nigsberg View Post
Any close-up pics of autostradas?
Well.. I've found an old thread opened by LtBk http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...ght=autostrada

I copy/paste some pics from there



[IMG]http://************/1e713t[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e719y[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71bc[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71cn[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71g8[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71hd[/IMG] [IMG]http://************/1e71q1[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71jd[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71n9[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71o7[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e71p4[/IMG]



[IMG]http://************/1e7290[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e729x[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e72ar[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e72bb[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e72c1[/IMG] [IMG]http://************/1e73lx[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e73mb[/IMG]

[IMG]http://************/1e73nb[/IMG]
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Old June 14th, 2007, 11:10 AM   #23
GENIUS LOCI
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Time for a short stop















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Old June 14th, 2007, 12:29 PM   #24
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Other pics

A1 -near Reggio Emilia



full resolution

Tangenziale Est - Roma



A1 -near Arezzo



full resolution

A3 - near Reggio Calabria



A4 - near Bergamo



full resolution

A4 - near Trieste



full resolution

A10 - Genova (Polcevera viaduct)



full resolution

A10 - Genova



full resolution

A10



full resolution

A12 - near Nervi



full resolution

A19 - near Enna



full resolution

A29 - near Segesta



full resolution

From wikipedia http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elenco_autostrade_italiane
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Old June 14th, 2007, 02:09 PM   #25
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Ok, I have a question: Why does Italy use double metal barriers?
Like here:
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Old June 14th, 2007, 04:33 PM   #26
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To use guardrail to separate the tracks is a bit 'outdated' (most of Italian highways were built in '60s and '70s) and now they're replacing 'em with concrete barriers (like in the pic below) quite everywhere



Infact guardrails often can't avoid a truck out of control to 'invade' the opposite track; New Jerseys are safer

Though they're begginning to replace even those old-style lateral guardrails: they're too low and for that dangerous for bikers who often remain beheaded; killed by the barriers that teoretically should save your life (and they do... if you're a car driver)

Often they replace 'em with a 'doubble' guard rail, tall enough, over the bikers head



Cool this one I found on the web... I never saw it before

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Old June 14th, 2007, 07:09 PM   #27
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Italy has probably the most impressive motorways in Europe, albeit not of very good quality. I was quite surprised of bad condition of A4 between Milano and Torino, but generally motorways are ok, but not superior. On the other hand I was very impressed with motorways around Geneva, something anyone should see. This summer I'm planing go to holidays in south Italy, and as I've seen on few pictures and on Google Earth, there should be some very impressive motorway related sights.

Question: Probably Milano-Torino part of A4 is now reconstructed (I was traveling there on year ago) and from above links I can see, that 4+4 motorway between Bergamo and Milano is already operating.
Is this 4+4 alignment taken through whole Milan or does it end before city viaducts (I didn't see any works there last year, but traffic chaos was immense)?

Also another one ... Are there any plans to do something with A4 going through Venezia/Mestre, because it is heavily congested and a big bottleneck with constant traffic jams?
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Old June 14th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #28
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A 9-km tunnel is planned north of Mestre. Where did you see 4+4 between Bergamo and Milan? I only see 3+3 by Bergamo. Anyway, I was travelling there a month ago, currently there are 8 km of 4+4 operating between Bergamo and Milano (possibly only in the direction of Bergamo?), and it won't include Milan bypass. And you meant Genova.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 07:38 PM   #29
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I meant this webcam picture (from here)

but apparently works are still ongoing:


About Mestre tunnel ... Under "what" will be built?

And of course, Genova
Scusi, mio parlare italiano no bene.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 08:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Question: Probably Milano-Torino part of A4 is now reconstructed (I was traveling there on year ago) and from above links I can see, that 4+4 motorway between Bergamo and Milano is already operating.
Is this 4+4 alignment taken through whole Milan or does it end before city viaducts (I didn't see any works there last year, but traffic chaos was immense)?

Also another one ... Are there any plans to do something with A4 going through Venezia/Mestre, because it is heavily congested and a big bottleneck with constant traffic jams?
Then...

About A4
Between Turin and Milan, as you said, motorway sucked (it is very old, but it's not that the problem, being quite all the highways pretty old in Italy: but they 'upgrade' 'em... for Torino-Milan branch ever 'own' by a private owner - FIAT - and not by a pubblic company as generally is for the rest of the network, they delayed constantly this upgrade, and even maintenence works, to 'earn' more money), but now they're upgrading it: thanks to the nearby new built HS railway, they remade all the interchanges and finnally added the emergency lane; the stretch between Magenta and Milano-Certosa (about 30 kms) will have 4 lanes+emergency lane

Between Milano-Agrate and Bergamo they've almost finished the upgrade to 4 lanes (+ emergency) and some stretches are still opened

But unfortunately there are no (serious) projects to upgrade the stretch between Milano-Agrate and Milano-Certosa (now 3 lanes + emergency lane), the most urban and congested which will be even a bottle neck
They proposed tunnels to doubble it and other various amazing fantastic futuristic projects... then we'll never see 'em built

The problem is that in that branch motorway is too close to buildings and can't be 'enlarged' anymore (they do it at least twice during the years)

I proposed to create a dynamic lane (like the one they're building in Bologna) using the emergency lane: in case of emergency you 'close' the lane and use it just for emergency... too simple?


Anyway... probably in the future they will enlarge to 4 lanes even stretces of A4 after Bergamo (it would be necessary over all between Bergamo and Brescia) but it's just hipotetical for now
To decrease the traffic they will build an alternative highway between Milano and Brescia, more direct

For Mestre, they're building the so called Passante di Mestre (Mestre Bypass), external to the city, to divide the ones who want to go to Mestre/Venezia from the ones who just want to pass by
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Old June 14th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
About Mestre tunnel ... Under "what" will be built?
Countryside... do you know NIMBYs? Unfortunately in Italy there are plenty of that, and local administrations (which with 'old' law had even the power to stop infrastructure crossing their territories) can make change even the projects in 'strange ways'... and sometimes State preferes to change it: it's cheaper to change and do that not to change and delay of years and years and years
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Old June 14th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #32
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Though there's not that many NIMBYs living here it seems:

[IMG]http://************/1e71o7[/IMG]

Or should that be NIMFYs?
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Old June 14th, 2007, 11:45 PM   #33
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GENIUS LOCI, thanks for answers!

I'm also impressed with the new project on A1, "Variante di Valico". As I understand correctly (from my very very limited understanding of Italian language). Aim of the project is to increase capacity of overloaded motorway through Apennines and is it really so, that new built half will have one direction 3 lanes + emergency and they will use old motorway for one direction only 4 lanes without emergency? Also one almost 9 km long tunnel will be built.

But for me, the most impressive was the video of "A1 Galleria di Nazzano 3th lane". They are enlarging tunnel with special diggin technique so not to obstruct traffic flow in existing tunnel. Tunnel is being digged only 2 or 3 meters above cars and trucks. Really an engineering marvel.
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Old June 14th, 2007, 11:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
Though there's not that many NIMBYs living here it seems:

[IMG]http://************/1e71o7[/IMG]

Or should that be NIMFYs?
Also NIMBYs certainly NOT here.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 12:08 AM   #35
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Another pretty interesting project is the Viaduct of East Padua, in Veneto.

There will be 3 arches 30 m high, illuminated at night. a nice effect.


[IMG]http://i13.************/48rgk1t.jpg[/IMG]












[IMG]http://i13.************/2mc6nnk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i9.************/4chuekz.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i10.************/4d5omww.jpg[/IMG]




http://www.grika.it/padova.html
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Old June 15th, 2007, 12:46 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Raalte View Post
Yeah. Bologna-Firenze is a very nice route. The part before (Milan-Bologna for me) is pretty boring.
Venezia-Padova-Bologna isn't particularly interesting, either. Udine-Austria is gorgeous, however.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #37
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These pictures make me miss Italy. I was in Milano, Roma and Catania last may and the driving there is CRAZY!!! :
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Old June 15th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
Though there's not that many NIMBYs living here it seems:

[IMG]http://************/1e71o7[/IMG]

Or should that be NIMFYs?
In '60s, when these structures were built, NIMBY was a marginal phenomenon (more, everything like this was seen as 'progress' and good) and local administrations hadn't the power by law to say anything...
Then they changed the law and had the power to say everything (what stopped for decades many infrastructures or/and increased their costs)

Now they changed the law again into an intermediate one between the first case and the second one
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Old June 15th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #39
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Urbanity and mountains can generate bizarre solutions... Genova Airport, entrance (marked with red) gets in the tunnel and emerges were you shouldn't expect it , while the exit lane (in blue)... just emerges, since it begins inside the main tunnel.



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Old June 15th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #40
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never seen this!
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