2011 Census

[Sir Miles Platting]

Originally Posted by Conor

The main reason for conflict in NI is nationalists v unionists. It just so happens the majority of unionists are protestant and vice versa.

Nah, it's religion Conor. Nothing more, nothing less.

[VDB]

Originally Posted by tomegranate

I appreciate the pains you're taking to show respect to other views VDB, but the problem is you seem to be suggesting that people can't live moral, proper lives and be community-minded and upstanding citizens, without being religious. Which to people without religion is pretty flippin' disrespectful.

I hope it didn't come across that way, it certainly wasn't meant like that. I was just giving a challenging view to all those saying the rise in Atheism is a good thing. I think the decrease in Christianity shows more benefits to the UK than negatives. For a start it means there's less opposition (in theory) to the recent Gay Marriage thing; which I absolutely 100% support.

Originally Posted by tomegranate

Perhaps, but how many Catholic priests - the most apparently holy people? - were found abusing children? I know this is a caricature but I think your position that religious = moral is completely naive and simplistic. I don't believe that religion causes the worlds problems (and the idea that religion causes wars is also false, you're correct in that - it's often just the excuse), but I don't agree that is the solution to them either.

Again, some very good points here. The reason many Catholic Priests (although again, it has to be stressed not all of them) sexually abuse the vunerable is likely to be because they get a lack of sex themselves. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that Priests should not have sex. Added to that, it can justifyably be argued within the realms of the Bible that sex is a natural necessity and so God would probably will it anyway.

Originally Posted by tomegranate

I don't believe that religion causes the worlds problems (and the idea that religion causes wars is also false, you're correct in that - it's often just the excuse), but I don't agree that is the solution to them either. I don't believe religion causes people to be moral, but I don't think it stops them being evil either. Look at it this way - Hitler and Stalin might not have been religious, but every other evildoer in human history probably would've considered themselves to be, to some extent.

It often depends on the people, with the religion often acting as the excuse. Again, I appreciate and am fully aware of the fact that many many wars in History have been caused by the existence of religion.

But the Bible contradicts itself so, so much. In Leviticus it suggests that "any man who sleeps in the same bed with another man as he would with a woman is committing a sin" (or words to that effect), but then it's widely believed that Jesus himself was a very liberal guy, and would've likely respected homosexuals. In addition, the argument I always use to argue for gays is the bit of the Bible (not sure which part, sorry), where it talks about how God "knits us all in our Mother's wombs" and "writes the book of your life before a day of it has even begun". In this respect, surely if God has written that you will be homosexual and have affairs with someone of your own sex, surely he wills it? Else, why would he write it?

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

Religion poses good values, and helps many people in times of crisis, but I have never benefited from it, and over the course of human history, religion has caused war after war, pain, suffering, bloodshed, murder, homicide, genocide, suicide - the list is endless. As you rightfully pointed out, these are people, not the religion it self, but people do these things in the name of their religion - whether it is taken out of context or not. And many religious have primitive beliefs and are harsh to specific groups of people (such as females or homosexuals). Of course, I would never vote to eradicate religion - people have the freedom to be whatever they want, but I just don't like it, and want nothing to do with it, and if religion vanished today, I would not shed a single tear, humanity would probably progress at a faster pace - did you see that Family Guy episode where they go into an alternate dimension, where Christianity didn't exist?

That's fine and of course it's your own view.

I'm a bit wary of myself coming across as a bit of a religious obsessionist on here, like I go to Church every Sunday and all of that. I don't. Aside from my unhealthy obsession with cities, I'm a fairly normal teenager who fully supports Liberal values and people being "what they want to be".

Yes I saw that episode. Definitely something to think about, and I largely agreed with it. I think humanity perhaps would be far more advanced - especially in Scientific terms where moral/ethical religious reasons have stopped the usage of embyros in research and cloning of humans. It would definitely DEFINITELY be a much more advanced world - you can let your imagination run wild. Superhumans with wings, and dogs that can make Milkshake pour from their ears! Funny.

Of course, that'd all be weird - and I've no doubt that it'd cause unrest whether people were religious or not. If I suddenly saw a human with the face of a dog I'd be pretty damn freaked out!




ANYWAY. What I was trying to initially say was; Is a rise in non-religion really a good thing when you consider all the culture that religion has brought over the years? And, if Christianty is the only reason why we don't have talking fish; is it necessarily a good thing that Christianity may be absent from UK law/life within our lifetimes?

[heatonparkincakes]

A mature post from VD boy.

Personal belief ( or non belief) is never really the problem, it's the imposition of the morals of religion on others that is the problem.

And sorry Miles, the problem about Northern Ireland might appear to be religion, but it isn't just that. It's much more complex than that.

As for GM, who is brave and not bigoted enough to discuss what the implications of the changing for the future.

[VDB]

If Greater Manchester can consolidate and mature its "multicultural" population (and by that I mean making sure that the different cultures ARE mixed, and not ghettoised) - then it'll be excellent for the region. Think of the Curry Mile, Cheetham Hill, China Town and Jewish North Manchester but amplified - all that culture.

Christ, China Town needs a bit of regeneration though. It's a right hole at the moment.

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

And sorry Miles, the problem about Northern Ireland might appear to be religion, but it isn't just that. It's much more complex than that.

But, if you overnight scrapped religious schools and the kids were mixed from the age of 4; you'd solve the problem in one generation.

The same could be said for other places too - so why the hell Gove is hell bent on creating more religious schools?

[iheartthenew]

Religious schools should be scrapped everywhere. They're a contradiction in terms in most cases...

[Sir Miles Platting]

I've heard every theory on the NI problem.

I've yet to be convinced that it is firmly rooted in anything other than some historical squabble between catholics and protestants.