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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:57 AM   #121
LtBk
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It depends on what you mean by "good". From what I read, it's good by US standards, but it could be much better.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:37 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Cars are very cheap if you buy older ones(like over 6 years old).



I don't really think people in those places you mentioned(with few exceptions) look down on those who use mass transit.
In the US they are. Move even just up to canada and they get much more expensive. $5+ a gallon gas (currently $1.40 a litre, equal to $5.30 a gallon), $1500 a year or more insurance, and other costs rack up quickly.

MARTA is one of the most underused metro networks in the world, it really isn't doing well for itself.

Public transit in Boston is generally good if you are heading downtown. If you aren't, you are out of luck. Inter suburban trips in the American and Canadian contexts are often impossibly long on public transit.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
It depends on what you mean by "good". From what I read, it's good by US standards, but it could be much better.
Agree. Transit in Boston is better than most places in the US, but it's nowhere near good enough to get people out of their cars in a significant way. In north America, the list of cities with successful systems (in this regard) is short. New York, Mexico City, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and Washington. Rider ship in these 6 cities is high in relation to their population. New York and Montreal have the highest rider ship relative to their populations.

In practically every other city, the transit system isn't good enough/extensive enough to get people out of their cars.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_ridership
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:58 PM   #124
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That list is only for rapid transit (subways et al) not other systems so it can skew things a little. It doesn't give a complete picture unless bus, tram or commuter train usage in each city pales in comparison to subway. Gives an indication though.

Do you have total system ridership per capita data at all? I'd be interested to see that.

Last edited by Svartmetall; April 24th, 2014 at 04:05 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #125
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Maybe mode share?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_share
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Old April 24th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Ah, I know that source. The place where a lot of data was sourced from has wildly shifting goalposts as to what makes up the urban area. For example, in Paris it consists of only the central section (hence the ridiculously low mode split for cars), whereas the urban area for other cities is more generously apportioned.

That said, it does show that Boston, for example, has a better modal split away from private cars than Toronto by this measure as well as 1% more public transport use for modal share despite the lower ridership figure. What urban area is counted for each area and where this data came from, goodness only knows in many cases.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #127
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Age of the car hasn't even gone away.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Ah, I know that source. The place where a lot of data was sourced from has wildly shifting goalposts as to what makes up the urban area. For example, in Paris it consists of only the central section (hence the ridiculously low mode split for cars), whereas the urban area for other cities is more generously apportioned.

That said, it does show that Boston, for example, has a better modal split away from private cars than Toronto by this measure as well as 1% more public transport use for modal share despite the lower ridership figure. What urban area is counted for each area and where this data came from, goodness only knows in many cases.
It was best source I could find.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #129
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Quote:
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It was best source I could find.
Sorry I didn't mean to sound confrontational. What I was more trying to illustrate is the difficulty in comparing modes of travel between cities. If you use patronage alone, it does not necessarily correlate with modal share. Comparing modal share between cities is problematic due to where one draws the borders and also how accurately one can manage to measure each mode etc etc.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 09:46 PM   #130
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Don't worry, I wasn't accusing of you being an ass.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #131
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Quote:
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In practically every other city, the transit system isn't good enough/extensive enough to get people out of their cars.
And yet it once was. Didn't LA, for instance, have the largest tram network in America?
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Old April 25th, 2014, 09:12 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Agree. Transit in Boston is better than most places in the US, but it's nowhere near good enough to get people out of their cars in a significant way. In north America, the list of cities with successful systems (in this regard) is short. New York, Mexico City, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and Washington. Rider ship in these 6 cities is high in relation to their population. New York and Montreal have the highest rider ship relative to their populations.

In practically every other city, the transit system isn't good enough/extensive enough to get people out of their cars.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_ridership
From my own experience being in Toronto I'd say Boston is better than Toronto when it comes to walkability and public transit.

Boston's commuter rail map



Map of Boston "metro"



From what I saw in my brief stay in Boston (1 week) the buses are extensively used for commute, I saw packed buses of people in suits etc. Boston also has the Acela Express which is "high speed rail" all the way to Washington DC. A significant amount of people in Boston/Cambridge just walk for their commute (13-16%) not to mention cycle.
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Last edited by ukiyo; April 25th, 2014 at 09:30 AM.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 04:48 AM   #133
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Ever notice the gap in the heart of Boston commuter rail network? There is no connection between the halves.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #134
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Isn't that closed by the metro, though? Many cities have gaps in their commuter network like that - London for one! Nearly all national rail stations are isolated islands serving different parts of the country. They tend to be connected to one another by the tube (or buses). That's one thing I noticed about Philly, though. They have a tunnel for their commuter trains to link their regional rail network under the centre. That's quite nice - almost like an S-bahn set up in Germany with their rail tunnels (Frankfurt, Munich et al).
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Old April 27th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #135
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To get from North Station to South Station you have to change 2 times (!), even though its just 5 stations in sum. Looking just at the map above I suppose it is a major undertaking to go from the northern periphery to the southern periperhy by commuter rail. I guess thats not what the system is made for, but rather strictly for commuting to the centre and back again. If you live in the suburbs of an American city you are basically f****d without a car anyway.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 04:47 AM   #136
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Here are some aspects of the so-called "Age of the Car":

1. Freeways/expressways within a city with 10 or more lanes.
2. Huge parking garages attached to a city's largest buildings.
3. Buildings often get torn down to make room for parking lots.
4. A city's primary sports/entertainment venues have to be accompanied by huge parking lots.
5. Freeways/expressway interchanges within a city often have to occupy tens of acres.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 04:33 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
In the US they are. Move even just up to canada and they get much more expensive. $5+ a gallon gas (currently $1.40 a litre, equal to $5.30 a gallon), $1500 a year or more insurance, and other costs rack up quickly.
$1,500 a year for insurance? Is that just for young and inexperienced drivers? It can be that much or more here too but generally once you get past 21 with a couple of years driving record with no claims then the cost rapidly falls, I pay around £350 (c$660) annually to insure two cars.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 04:30 PM   #138
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Like said already, some places are only now experiencing the age of the car. Here's taster of how it is to be a pedestrian on one of Bucharest's most central and most beautiful avenues:

https://www.facebook.com/cristian.va...4740985437178/
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Old May 6th, 2017, 12:31 AM   #139
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Quote:
Fixing a Fractured Paris

In an effort to connect the historic city to its politically fragmented suburbs, Greater Paris is pushing an epic program of highway removal and transit revamps. But drivers fear that trying to fix one planning disaster could lead to another one.


This is probably the best piece I read in Eglish about Grand Paris and its dynamics. The car issue is indeed key.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 02:18 PM   #140
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According to this article on Mail & Guardian Africa from December 2015 about carmakers like Nissan, Ford and Volkswagen studying production opportunities in Africa, vehicle ownership in Africa is estimated to be at less than 50 per 1,000 people, compared with about 800 per 1,000 people in the United States. It is said that demand for passenger cars in particular is growing in Sub-Saharan Africa, as road conditions and fuel quality improve and young populations with disposable income seek mobility.
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