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Completed Projects Completed tall buildings in Liverpool and Merseyside.



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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:22 AM   #1
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Cruise Liner Facility

The original thread doesn't look as though it will be repaired.

I've had a sinking feeling over the summer time that something is going wrong with this most important of infrastructure schemes. Walking down by the river you would be greeted with open water and no signs of activity where there should be all systems go, after all the contract for construction was awarded some time ago.

So it's with huge feeling of disappointment that I read in the today's DP that there is indeed a "delay" to this project.

It would seem that an argument is raging between MDHC and LCC about who should run the facility. "Sources at Mersey Docks say negotiations could drag on for some time, or even be cancelled altogether. Any delay would jeopardise hopes of staging a landmark cruise ship naming ceremony at the terminal, while cancellation of the project would be politically disastrous for the council"

LCC are blaming Peel's takeover of MDHC with LCC's Charlie Parker saying "It's purely due to the merger talks. They have had their bid referred to the the Office of Fair Trading"

Hey Charlie! clearance was given to Peel last week, where have you been!! this must be sorted out today!! no messing around, get it done!!

As a footnote to this I wonder if the proposed plan for Princes Dock plot 7 is anything to do with this?? I think most of us forummers would agree that plot 7 needs to have a tower on that site considering the number of units being planned. A tower by the RLB??
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Old August 17th, 2005, 10:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Roberts
A tower by the RLB??
I think this will work wonders for the skyline. The 4/5 story office buildings that currently sit on Princes Dock are completely out of scale and character with the RLB and just look daft sat next to it (note to planners - just because something is low-rise it doesn't mean it won't ruin the skyline!).
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Old August 17th, 2005, 10:44 AM   #3
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I don't disagree with you but if you think of the growing list of issues around Liverpool, made in most part by LCC and it's planning community, then plot 7 tower?? has all the classic signs of the heritage police giving it thumbs down.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 11:02 AM   #4
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I imagine you're right. Planners and the heritage police are far too concerned with height and nowhere near concerned enough with quality. As a result we'll just end up with an out of town business park on one of our most prominent waterfront sites :/
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Old August 17th, 2005, 11:27 AM   #5
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Hope your wrong about the business park, a tower on plot 7 adjacent to the liner berth would look fantastic! A tall top quality building plus the drama of the the Pierhead Buildings giving passengers added excitement and a sense of arriving somewhere special! if we can see this vision why can't the planners??

Perhaps the travel industry should canvass cruise passengers opinions on which is the most exciting, dramatic seaborne entrance to a city;
New York, Hong Kong, Sydney, where would Liverpool come on such a list? assuming of course that this facility ever gets built!!
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Old August 17th, 2005, 05:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Roberts
Perhaps the travel industry should canvass cruise passengers opinions on which is the most exciting, dramatic seaborne entrance to a city;New York, Hong Kong, Sydney, where would Liverpool come on such a list? assuming of course that this facility ever gets built!!
I fulfill two of the above criteria having been in the travel industry (in various capacity) for most of my life and having completed 53 cruises in the last twentyfive years.

Well it depends on the personal taste of the individual passenger (known as guests within the industry) but for me it is none of the above. Cape Town, SA., Rio de Janerio, Brazil., Pago Pago, American Samoa., Cooks Bay, Moorea and St. Johns, NF. Canada all have specatcular "natural" entrances and all, excepting Moorea, are port cities. However, I think the question was related to the built environment so in that case, and having visited all of the ports mentioned, it is of course New York. In my opinion, which is very subjective, I would place Liverpool behind all of the above and also Toronto, Boston, Miami, Tampa, Shanghai, Singapore, Auckland, Honolulu, Vancouver, Montreal, Seattle, Jakarta, Kobe, Panama City, Buenas Aires, Montivideo and many more just to numerous to mention.

Liverpools waterfront starts at St. Nicholas Place and finishes at Mann Island, a total of three blocks. I suppose we should consider the buildings on Old Hall Street, RS&A, DP&Echo, Littlewoods and very recently Beetham 1 but even then Liverpool waterfront is rather "unspectacular" as waterfronts go. The addition of Beetham 2 , King Edward and the Princes Dock developments will add bulk, but again, not in the same class as those ports mentioned above. There is no doubt that, for a British port, the Liverpool gateway is very impressive especially when contrasted with places like Cardiff, Bristol, Southampton, Glasgow, Belfast, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, et al., but it is not in the same league as those mentioned above. The "Three Graces" are indeed beautiful buildings and worthy of a visit but Liverpools waterfront is no longer "World reknowned", it's notariety ended, sadly, years before the last liner left the Landing Stage.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 05:26 PM   #7
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Sloyne speeks the truth. I think this is why people want to see these developments go up, fill gaps and bulk up the waterfront because as Sloyne notes the impressive part of Liverpool's waterfront only covers a small area. The rest is flat or small rise. Perhaps things like the Maro tower would kick start things in the Brunswick area. Beetham 2 helps and surely something will go up on the King Edward pub site. Hopefully this would start a trend of re-generation down Great Howard Street and encapsulate Stanley dock and the Tobacco warehouse. At the moment that end of town is a bit shabby but has potential.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 05:29 PM   #8
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Sloyne, I've been to Moorea - Dont think 3 concrete buildings can compare to the place the Bounty was filmed!
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Old August 17th, 2005, 08:15 PM   #9
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Interesting comments, thanks fellas. So what is the conclusion? Liverpool's waterfront and skyline the best in Britain? but only second division in global terms, is this reasonable?
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Old August 17th, 2005, 08:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Roberts
Interesting comments, thanks fellas. So what is the conclusion? Liverpool's waterfront and skyline the best in Britain? but only second division in global terms, is this reasonable?
Well it's all in the eye of the beholder. But I'd say that Liverpool has the best waterfront skyline in the UK. And one of the best skylines in the UK.

Internationally... Well I was thinking Sydney, New York, Chicago, Seattle, Toronto, etc. But I've noticed that a lot of the skylines featured on the SSC banner do not match up to Liverpool's skyline so it is certainly a worthy international skylines, if not in the elite. I think an advantage Liverpool has (and which is a downside in other respects) is that its low scale makes its most prominent buildings high quality 19th/20th century buildings. Whilst many of the big ineternational skylines look very similar as they are all dominated by modernist super towers.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 08:54 PM   #11
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Not Again, but then this is Liverpool.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Roberts
Interesting comments, thanks fellas. So what is the conclusion? Liverpool's waterfront and skyline the best in Britain? but only second division in global terms, is this reasonable?
Well its the best on the Mersey, beats Runcorn

I read the DP report with a " oh no not again" feeling. This much delayed scheme seemed to be "plain sailing" , approved by all local and national agencies, money on the table, contractor appointed, site start anticipated within weeks and now this nonsense. We should`nt be to surprised as this is Liverpool, but what is disturbing is the reasons why, both MDHC and LCC have offered different excuses, so who is telling porkys ?

Time for our leader Mr Storey to jump in ( not the river ) and sort this mess out.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:10 PM   #12
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Someone needs to sort this out and bloody quick, didn't the movers and shakers of the cruising world come to Liverpool in the spring for a conference and to see what the city had to offer in the way of facilities?? at this rate, bugger all!!

I really hope that this fallout between MDHC (now Peel!) and LCC is all a bit exagerated by the DP, the worrying thing as I said previously is there are no signs of activity down there.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Matrix 1985
Sloyne, I've been to Moorea
Beautiful isn't it? I don't know of one building on the planet that can compare with the view, when entering Cooks Bay from the South Pacific, not even the Taj Mahal. In my opinion Moorea is more beautiful than Bora Bora.

Not just the Bounty but also the musical adaption of the James Michener novel Tales of the South Pacific the Rogers & Hammerstein movie was filmed on location at Cooks Bay. The silhuette of the mountain doubled as the fictitious "Bali Hai".

Last edited by sloyne; August 17th, 2005 at 09:22 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #14
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Talking Vision, whats that said the Planners.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Roberts
Hope your wrong about the business park, a tower on plot 7 adjacent to the liner berth would look fantastic! A tall top quality building plus the drama of the the Pierhead Buildings giving passengers added excitement and a sense of arriving somewhere special! if we can see this vision why can't the planners??
Doug I share your vision, but as I have already posted, I just cannot see a tall tower in that location being approved. A 30 mike fully glazed tower would look superb and form a perfect "book end " with Alexandra tower at the other end of the dock. Apart from the height issues this project could have the Highways manager and Merseytravel making waves re; traffic congestion.

What ever is built on this site I agree with you and Dj Billy ,we do not want a repeat of the bland 5 mikes that already exist along Princess Parade.

We need a dramatic structure with a WOW factor.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 09:19 PM   #15
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All we can do with the landing stage is keep our fingers crossed. The LDP story just referred to 'sources' but I can see a lot of horse trading going on now that Peel are coming on board and no doubt have more ambitious plans for Princes Dock.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 07:54 AM   #16
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Exclamation Agreement for cruise ship terminal in the balance Aug 17 2005

Agreement for cruise ship terminal in the balance Aug 17 2005

By Bill Gleeson Business Editor, Daily Post

PLANS for a cruise liner terminal close to Liverpool's Pier Head face uncertainty after it emerged yesterday that Mersey Docks & Harbour Company has yet to agree to a deal that would allow the scheme to go-ahead.

Construction work on the new terminal was meant to have started in July, but has been delayed as a result of continued haggling between Mersey Docks and Liverpool City Council, which wants to operate the terminal.

Sources at Mersey Docks say negotiations could drag on for some time, or even be cancelled altogether. Any delay would jeopardise hopes of staging a landmark cruise ship-naming ceremony at the terminal, while cancellation of the project would be politically disastrous for the council, which has already seen a number of major regeneration schemes fall through.

The source said: "It would be surprising if this started in the autumn and even then it would be questionable whether the project starts at all. There is no certainty about that.

"There are a number of aspects that remain to be agreed between the city council and Mersey Docks in order for the project to proceed.

"The city is aware that this agreement can not be finalised until various related issues are resolved. Without agreement, the project will not proceed." Charlie Parker, the council's executive director for regeneration, denied there was any disagreement with Mersey Docks, but he acknowledged there has been a delay in the start of construction work. Mr Parker attributed the delay to the takeover of Mersey Docks by Peel Holdings, the owner of Liverpool John Lennon Airport and Manchester Ship Canal.

Mr Parker said: "It is purely due to the merger talks. They have had their bid referred to the Office of Fair Trading."

Mr Parker said he expected the takeover issues to be resolved sometime in the next month. He also said he had received correspondence from Mersey Docks agreeing to the cruise terminal scheme.

The council hopes the new terminal could attract ocean-going cruise ships that bring with them tourists who will spend money in the city.

It is hoped Cunard's new vessel, Queen Victoria, currently under construction in Italy, will be named at the new terminal in 2007.

But any further delay could scupper that plan.

Mersey Docks' concerns are thought to include the need for assurances about the impact of the terminal on its nearby Princes Dock office and residential property development.

The source at Mersey Docks insisted Mr Parker's assertion that the terminal project was delayed due to the takeover process was wrong.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 07:57 AM   #17
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Question LIVERPOOL CRUISE CONFERENCE A MAJOR SUCCESS - 4 Feb 2005

News Room
LIVERPOOL CRUISE CONFERENCE A MAJOR SUCCESS

General, 4 Feb 2005

A major cruise industry conference held in Liverpool last month has been hailed a huge success, with cruise line executives from across the globe impressed by the city and the wider cruise opportunities in the UK.

International delegates attended the second Seatrade Cruise House Party, which was secured for the Liverpool over other UK cities, by Mersey Maritime and the Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA).

The two-day event held at the maritime museum saw representatives from the UK’s port and tourism industry gather in the city, to listen to some of the worlds leading cruise liner operators and present to them individual destination opportunities in the England’s North West including Cumbria and the wider UK.

Nine of the world’s major cruise lines were represented at the event, Princess, Cunard, Fred Olsen, Hebriddean Island Cruises, Page & Moy, Mediterranean Shipping Cruises, Hapag Loyd, Saga Cruises and Holland America Line.

As a direct result of the conference location and the opportunity to experience at first-hand the world class tourism offering of the North West, several of the cruise operators have confirmed an interest in bringing their vessels into the city once the new cruise liner facility is operational.

David Pendleton, business development director of Mersey Maritime and project leader for the event said: “The delegates and executives who visited Liverpool last month were completely overwhelmed with what the city had to offer, both as a conference venue and as a destination for future cruise passengers. I’m confident that 2005 will see commitments from cruise companies to include Liverpool in their future itineraries.”

Construction is due to get underway on Liverpool’s new cruise liner facility which will see 40 vessels a year arriving in the city and will incorporate a range of visitor facilities.

The UK is currently the third biggest cruise destination in the world with numbers entering UK ports rising by 55 per cent to 227,000 in 2003 and those embarking rising by 56 per cent.


ENDS

For further information: Helen Williams
Leapfrog PR
Tel: 0151 707 6988
helen@leapfrogpr.org

Issued: 4th February 2005

Editors Notes:

· Between 2000 and 2003, worldwide cruise passenger numbers increased by 21 per cent from 10.1 million to 12.2 million. During the same period, worldwide capacity was increased by 28 per cent, from 241,000 to 309,000 berths (Cruise UK)


PARTNERS
· Mersey Maritime represents the Maritime sector on Merseyside, which is worth £1.3 billion and employs 6,000 people in 566 companies. It is one of the nine growth sectors identified and supported by The Mersey Partnership, Government Office North West and the Northwest Development Agency as vital for the future economic growth of the Liverpool City Region www.merseymaritime.co.uk

· Seatrade’s globally recognised and respected events, publications, management training and websites cover every aspect of maritime activity to facilitate better communication within the industry. Among 2005’s events are the annual Seatrade Cruise Shipping Convention in Miami in March, Seatrade London International Maritime Convention in London in October and the return of the Seatrade Europe Cruise, Ferry & Rivercruise Convention in Hamburg in November. All the above events are owned by Seatrade apart from the Seatrade Cruise Shipping Convention, which is owned by CMP and organised in association with Seatrade www.seatrade-global.com

· The Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA) is one of nine regional development agencies established by the government to develop the English regions. The NWDA is responsible for the sustainable economic development and regeneration of England's Northwest and has five key priorities: Business Development, Regeneration, Skills and Employment, Infrastructure, and Image. www.nwda.co.uk

· The Mersey Partnership (TMP) represents businesses in the Liverpool City Region. Members are all working together for the future economic growth of Merseyside. Its mission is to champion the Merseyside advantage, campaigning for the Liverpool City Region as a great place, to live, work, invest and visit, generating greater returns for all. It has three areas of activity: Economic Development, Investment and Tourism. TMP is supported by the European Regional Development Fund under the Objective One programme for Merseyside. www.merseyside.org.uk

· Liverpool Culture Company is organising Liverpool's year long celebration as European Capital of Culture in 2008 and the city's 800th birthday celebrations in 2007. Experts forecast that being European Capital of Culture will generate more than 14,000 jobs, £3bn worth of investment and attract an extra 1.5 million visitors to Liverpool. For more information log on to www.liverpool08.com

· Cumbria Tourist Board is the voice for tourism in the Lake District and the wider county of Cumbria. The county is home to over 200 mountains, 16 major lakes, dozens of tourist attractions and miles of stunning coastline. A popular walking, climbing, and outdoor activities destination, it boasts the longest lake, highest mountain, steepest road and smallest church in England. It was named as a Top 50 World Destination according to National Geographic Traveler magazine and 10 percent of its 15.5 million visitors every year are from overseas. For more information, go to www.golakes.co.uk or call 015394 44444.


QUOTES FROM PARTNERS


“The Seatrade Cruise House Party in Liverpool was a tremendous success and gave us an unrivalled opportunity to showcase England’s Northwest to the cruise tourism industry. Now we must build on our achievements so far. Our region has a great deal to offer any visitor, from the rich maritime heritage of Liverpool to the idyllic countryside of the Lake District, the Northwest has got what it takes to be a world-leading cruise liner destination.”

Peter Mearns, Director of Marketing at the NWDA


"For Cumbria, their involvement at the House Party was an investment placed in the anticipated future growth of Cruise Tourism to our region. Early indications are that the dividends could be forthcoming in the next 18-24 months - manifested by an increase in cruise ship calls to the Cumbrian ports which are gateways to England's Lake District.
"The event also allowed Cumbria to make a clear statement of their intent to heighten awareness of the region as a highly desirable port of call on future cruise itineraries in the Irish Sea. Yet another by-product is the prospect of working with Liverpool in the wider promotion of the north west of England and benefiting from the synergies that would flow from such co-operation."


Terry Toohey, director of Cruise Development at Cumbria Tourist Board


“This conference was a major success and certainly achieved its objectives. We were successful in moving Liverpool up the league table of cruise destinations and raised considerable interest in the prospect of a cruise liner facility in the Mersey.”


Jason Harborow, Chief Operating Officer, Liverpool Culture Company



"The Seatrade House Party gave delegates a truly memorable taste of what the Liverpool City Region and the North West have to offer. The feedback we gained from delegates was extremely positive and many were so impressed that they were asking to spend more time at key sights such as the Cavern and Mathew Street. The gala dinner at Knowsley Hall was a delight for the visitors, who remarked on the grandeur and warmth of the venue. In the long term, the benefits of this conference will be felt over the next few years as we look forward to welcoming the increasing number of cruise liners to Liverpool."

Martin King, Director of Tourism at The Mersey Partnership



“The interest shown by the cruise lines was very strong. They are looking to increase deployment in Europe and the UK has a great opportunity to benefit from this. Through their participation in the Seatrade Cruise House party, some of the world’s leading cruise brands were offered the unique opportunity to see what Liverpool, the North West and the entire country has to offer as a cruise destination.

“We were delighted with the response from the lines and the support and interest shown by the destinations. Special commendation should go to the Northwest Development Agency, Liverpool 08 and Cumbria Tourist Board for their wholehearted support for this undertaking.”


Chris Hayman, managing director of Seatrade

"We were delighted to be actively involved in this event. This conference was a great opportunity for us to showcase our region and promote the historic city of Chester to cruise executives who we hope will recognise the great offer that is being developed in Liverpool through the development of its new cruise facility."

Chris Brown, Chief Executive, Cheshire and Warrington Tourism Board

Ends
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Old August 18th, 2005, 08:01 AM   #18
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Exclamation Someone`s missing the boat - Liverpool

So we have the will for Crusise ships - the funding to create the facilities but not decided who gets the kick back?



So who is the weakest link?

Goodbye!



Last edited by Pietari; August 18th, 2005 at 08:07 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 10:27 AM   #19
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Pietari, thanks for the info on the conference, now all the world can see that Liverpool is crap at delivering schemes.

The berth was to be completed in order to take ships for the cruising season 2006, any suggestions of what the latest start date could be in order to meet this objective or is 2006 a lost cause??
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Old August 18th, 2005, 11:42 AM   #20
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Exclamation Cruise Liner Terminal - are the MDHC to blame?

Hi Doug,

I don`t think at this moment anyone can say.

My concern is that as the HDHC have previously abandoned both Liverpool South Docks and many parts of Birkenhead docks and also blocked public access to quayside areas - I don`t see it being out of character for them to block the `Cruise Liner Facility` on their `Princes Dock - unless there is something in it for them.

Princes Dock Development Company itself took a long time to produce any developments and who ever knows when the Central Docks might be developed.

I`m not sure they can be accused of being a `Good Neighbour.`

I do hope I`m wrong.

To think we have complained about other companies sitting on land, blocking redevelopment.

Is the `Quayside` any different.

Last edited by Pietari; August 18th, 2005 at 11:53 AM.
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