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Old March 5th, 2005, 03:12 AM   #1
VansTripp
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Does in Miami need have big dig?

What you want for big dig in Miami? Need redevelopment new highway?
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Old March 6th, 2005, 03:42 PM   #2
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Big dig? Probably a way to connect I-95 to another expressway where it terminates at US-1. I know that people instead head west on 836 when they know they need to head to west Miami-Dade. I guess I-95 at this point becomes nothing more than a local access road for the Coral Gables/grove/Dadeland area.
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Old March 7th, 2005, 07:27 PM   #3
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theyll make us-1 a full highway one day... no need for it now... but in maybe 50 years or so... gonna b a real bitch tho with all the retail they got on it...
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Old March 7th, 2005, 08:10 PM   #4
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There's always the big dig that would happen if they put the I-395 below grade. Which they should. Turning US-1 into a highway just isn't possible.
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Old March 9th, 2005, 06:05 AM   #5
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There's several tunnel ideas out there right now. There's the port tunnel, the miami river tunnel and the conversion of 395 to a cut highway.
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Old March 9th, 2005, 05:21 PM   #6
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I had an idea of making I-95 cut over the entrance to the Rickenbacker and then out to Biscayne Bay after they dredged up an artificial narrow "key" which paralleled the coast until Pinecrest, and then cut back in ti 826/US-1. It just an idea...

Idea No. 2. Create the Miami Skyway. Make an elevated expressway-- or express-lanes right above the Metrorail elevated line with pylons over the median of US-1; so that one edge of the highway bridge is to the north or even with the Metrorail line, and the southern edge is halfway over US-1. Very radical-- but Miami-Dade already owns the land. And it REALLY becomes necessary, it is potentially a route-- even though an unsightly route

It would have to be express lanes out to the Palmetto to work. Do I need to be committed for this outrageous idea? I'm at the insane asylum using the library computer as we speak.
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Old March 9th, 2005, 05:23 PM   #7
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IF it becomes necessary... IF. I need to learn how to type better.
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Old April 2nd, 2005, 06:35 PM   #8
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IMHO, burying 395 is absolutely the dumbest idea any elected official has come up with in the past hundred years. To put its $600 million (give or take a few hundred) cost in perspective... that's more than it cost to demolish and rebuild every inch of I-95 in Broward County. Will burying 395 get anyone to work faster? No. Will it revitalize and re-energize Overtown? It doesn't matter... Overtown is going to be bulldozed and rebuilt into a wealthy bayfront neighborhood with outrageously expensive condos and townhomes before 2015 ANYWAY. Sure... they ought to rebuild the bridges higher and prettier since they're approaching the end of their design lives anyway... but there's no reason to burn Dade County's entire road budget for the next decade on a mile-long strip of highway. They can build pretty above-ground bridges for a lot less that will look almost as nice (like the bridge over I-4 just north of Universal Studios by the new Mall).

On the other hand, I'm rather fond of the idea of seeing South Dixie Highway transformed into the South Dixie Skyway. I think current highway engineering is perfectly capable of building a high double-deck road with 3 lanes in each direction above Metrorail (supported by widely-spaced pairs of pillars straddling the existing Metrorail track and/or existing road). South of Dadeland, they could add the extended Metrorail line itself to the stack and share the pillars among both. The only real bitch would be handling the whole Dadeland interchange without turning it into Golden Glades, Part Deux (snarled 24/7 clusterf**k mess).

I absolutely love the idea of building I-95 *under* US-1 like the Big Dig, but can't imagine any scenario likely to happen over the next 50 years where THAT would be even remotely affordable, let alone cost-effective and sensible. Maybe someday when nanotech advances to the point where they could make "tunnel-extrusion factories" using billions of nanobots to build a deep tunnel and liquefy the mud and rock inside so it can flow out, it might work... but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old April 2nd, 2005, 11:37 PM   #9
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I'll tell you what-- I drove up Biscayne to the PAC yesterday--- 395 is one ugly overpass. They gotta do something.
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 12:56 AM   #10
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canes... i luv the south dixie skyway... although i dont think there is enough traffic to justify it just yet... i think ud have to have complete 24 hour bumper to bumper before something like that ever gets built, and even then, theyll prob go with the 95 tunnel under us1 idea, simply because the businesses along us1 would never allow an eyesore like that to block out their sun... till then, were aite for now


im all for making the 395 a tunnel with park land on top, thats wat i think should be done, and the probably about one billion dollar price tag would be worth it... im sure that in the process of land aquizition, they would get some land that they would be able to sell off later at double the prices, cause prices along the parks would sore, not totally repaying it, but partially helping, as would property taxes somewat... would be worth it in the long run
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 01:07 AM   #11
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well i feel that if you do something with 395 we should do something with 95
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 01:51 AM   #12
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95 is just too huge... i think that would have to be done in hundreds of small projects over the next century... no way we could do 95 in one swath... just not possible
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 09:56 AM   #13
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395 has to go. It can't handle the load now and it's getting old. So subtract whatever it'll take to rebuild a new bridge and then tear down 395 and that's the actual figure you get for burying it. If I'm not mistaken, they would need the land either way.

The whole point of this is urbanism and a skyway mirroring US1 would do nothing for urbansim. Think of how bad that would be for the planned, and possible future TOD projects springing up around the metrorail lines. It'd be bad enough living next to that. Forget it if you add 6 lane highway noise to it. You want to encourage more sprawl in southern and western Dade, then go ahead and build more roads, completely ignoring the needs of those in the inner suburbs where we have actual transit. US1 really isn't that bad. I live in Kendall and take it almost every day.
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 06:09 PM   #14
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exactly... a us1 expansion simply isnt needed at this point
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 09:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimbyhater
exactly... a us1 expansion simply isnt needed at this point
All kidding aside, they could probably achieve 80% of the benefit by digging a trench just through South Miami between Red Road and 878, with 4 lanes for local traffic cantilevered above (so everyone heading to 878, Dadeland, or further south would have a clear, traffic light-free run all the way through town).

Count the traffic lights between I-95 and Red Road. For the most part, there are MAYBE 2 signaled intersections per mile, and the signals are all well-synchronized to keep traffic moving. Until you get to South Miami, where you suddenly hit a half-dozen traffic lights in the first half-mile alone. Look at the morning traffic. For the most part, the worst of the morning northbound traffic jam dissipates once you're north of Red Road. The evening southbound traffic jam doesn't clear up quite as dramatically south of 67th Ave, but THAT'S mainly the busway's fault (turning right used to be a trivial non-event... now it's a major ceremony).
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 09:59 PM   #16
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Here's what's wrong with building a park over a new, buried I-395:

* water-logged dirt below a grassy field is one of the heaviest things you can actually put over a buried road. It's nonstructural, and incredibly heavy. I know, because I've looked into what has to be done to put a yard on a roof and found out just how much just ONE cubic foot of waterlogged dirt actually weighs (50-90 pounds, depending on composition). At least buildings can sit on their own pilings, independent of the road. Build a park, and the road's tunnel has to bear all the weight itself.

* Downtown Miami needs a wide, grassy field about as badly as Anchorage, Alaska needs a "Winter Wonderland" park. Bicentennial park, Bayfront Park, and about a dozen other large parks are already there. They're just mostly ignored because they're currently overrun with homeless people and crack addicts. As the area gets redeveloped and new residents push them out, everyone's going to realize that Miami has an INCREDIBLE amount of urban parkland, just waiting to be discovered, cleaned up, and used.

* The REAL likelihood of "reclaimed" land above a new I-395... or even where the current road sits now... EVER being sold or put to economically productive use is practically nil. FDOT will make it nearly impossible to build any non-governmental building in the buried road's footprint simply because they can, and the Overtown black community would endlessly bitch and moan about exploitation and discrimination if the land in the current road's footprint actually got sold to the highest bidder and became the site of more expensive condos, and maybe a plaza with big box stores. Ultimately, they'd end up giving the land to some nonprofit organization instead, because it would be easier than fighting a public relations race war. The losers? Everyone else, who'd end up paying for what would be a very, vey expensive gift to charity and suffering from even WORSE traffic because Dade County wouldn't have any money left to spend on road improvements that might actually make traffic a little better.

Is the current I-395 butt-ugly? Yeah. Does it need to be rebuilt? Yes... as a widened elevated road with higher and nicer-looking bridges.

My idea:

build a long, high, architecturally-stunning theatrically-illuminated cable-stayed bridge spanning nearly the entire mile between the I-95 interchange and the causeway. In between the support columns (probably 1/10 to 1/4 mile apart), the road deck would sit HIGH above the surrounding area... high enough to barely impact sunlight below for most of the day, even in the area below. Aside from the area immediately surrounding the columns, nothing in between would HAVE to be demolished, and the existing road could be left mostly untouched until the new bridge were completed and the time came to divert traffic to the new route. This new bridge would be visible for MILES, and would be a spectacular addition to Miami's skyline as it soared high enough to let anyone at ground level have a nearly unobstructed view of the PAC.

Last edited by miamicanes; April 3rd, 2005 at 10:07 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2005, 04:44 AM   #17
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that should be cha ching
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Old April 4th, 2005, 11:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamicanes

My idea:

build a long, high, architecturally-stunning theatrically-illuminated cable-stayed bridge spanning nearly the entire mile between the I-95 interchange and the causeway. In between the support columns (probably 1/10 to 1/4 mile apart), the road deck would sit HIGH above the surrounding area... high enough to barely impact sunlight below for most of the day, even in the area below. Aside from the area immediately surrounding the columns, nothing in between would HAVE to be demolished, and the existing road could be left mostly untouched until the new bridge were completed and the time came to divert traffic to the new route. This new bridge would be visible for MILES, and would be a spectacular addition to Miami's skyline as it soared high enough to let anyone at ground level have a nearly unobstructed view of the PAC.

i've been saying this since the first day i joined this site,a bridge instead of 395 would look great but $ is always a factor especially since it seems that only kax and tampa get nice bridges and we get crap
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Old April 5th, 2005, 11:56 PM   #19
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Depending on how you want to look at it, an architecturally-stunning bridge would either cost twice as much as doing the bare minimum to keep the road standing, or half as much as burying the road. Either way, it's still several orders of magnitude cheaper than burying the road. There's just no sane, rational justification for burying a road in an area where there's actually an amazing amount of open/disused land to begin with. Now, if the whole area were solid skyscrapers and burying it were the only way to shoehorn it in (like, say, in Honolulu or Manhattan, or even Boston) it might make sense. But that area barely even qualifies as "downtown", besides the fact that it's historically been a dangerous slum, and sadly enough "slum" is one of the first things people in America think of when they hear "downtown".
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Old April 6th, 2005, 12:03 AM   #20
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i think that buryin it would be worth it simply becasue this highway cuts through that area, and cuts a deep gash between the pac/midtown area, and downtown, when these are really just the same are with a highway in the middle, but theres no flow between the two, because theyres a massive highway in the middle, burying this would make the pac/midtown/downtown, one great big area, and just that makes it all worth it
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