daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Citytalk and Urban Issues

Citytalk and Urban Issues » Guess the City



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 4th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #21
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo234 View Post
I was thinking more in terms of short business trips and for employees who may only have to be at the London office for say two-three days per week. Although I think it is relatively common in Japan for commuters to use HSR for their daily commute.
Companies in Japan generally pay a portion of your commuting costs too, that makes HSR commuting more viable. But to put things into perspective - a years ticket from Northampton (not far north of London) is 6032 GBP. That's a massive amount and you need a very good job to justify that kind of expense (yet Northampton is in the commuter belt for London).
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:07 PM   #22
lafreak84
Free Palestine
 
lafreak84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Herts, UK
Posts: 939
Likes (Received): 535

70mi between Northampton and London, my Skoda can do around 4x that, that would make petrol last for two days commute. Say you work 20 days a month you'd need to top-up 10x£40=£400/month for petrol. My insurance is £50 + £400=£450/month*12months=£5400/year vs £6030/year for train.

You need to count in road tax, maintenance and parking in London. So to think about it, it's cheaper to commute by train even if you own a car for leisure. So commuting between Northampton and London is not worth it in any way because you can get a place for that kind of money.
__________________
FREE KURDISTAN! FREE PALESTINE!
Boycott ******
lafreak84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:25 PM   #23
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

I always think trains should be cheaper than a car, but the fact is, overall, the train is expensive by international standards. In Germany or Switzerland, you can buy a whole network pass allowing you on the entire rail network for the country (and for a bit extra in Germany, most public transport systems in the country too) per year. That tends to hit home somewhat when you mention those kind of figures.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:32 PM   #24
lafreak84
Free Palestine
 
lafreak84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Herts, UK
Posts: 939
Likes (Received): 535

I agree with you, it should be cheaper and that was an extreme example. People would most probably move rather than commute that far (or commute 2x/week like most I know). But rail is privately owned and I don't see prices doing down anytime soon.
__________________
FREE KURDISTAN! FREE PALESTINE!
Boycott ******
lafreak84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:40 PM   #25
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafreak84 View Post
I agree with you, it should be cheaper and that was an extreme example. People would most probably move rather than commute that far (or commute 2x/week like most I know). But rail is privately owned and I don't see prices doing down anytime soon.
My Mum used to commute to London (worked at UCL) from first Luton and then Northampton (as Northampton, believe it or not, is better than Luton), as did her friends (worked at the BMJ). That was back when employers actually paid for commuter passes for people, I don't know if they still do that though.

But then you should look at the numbers that Network rail show commuting daily from Northampton to London. Northampton is the exemplar season ticket on the London Midland website, so I'd also assume it's fairly popular.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:59 PM   #26
the spliff fairy
ONE WORLD
 
the spliff fairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: london
Posts: 7,998
Likes (Received): 6427

that's privatisation folks.
the spliff fairy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #27
skyshakernowlive
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 120
Likes (Received): 16

Delete

Last edited by skyshakernowlive; May 13th, 2015 at 01:46 AM.
skyshakernowlive no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 01:01 AM   #28
alexandru.mircea
Ars longa, vita brevis
 
alexandru.mircea's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,989
Likes (Received): 10831

^cost of life for example
__________________
Doors and architecture of my town.

===

Italian cities: pure beauty / France - One photo a day / Bucharest: timelapse + architecture
alexandru.mircea no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 09:00 AM   #29
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20313

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafreak84 View Post
Yes, but then we come back to this:



In London you have jobs but you can't afford a house. In Manchester you can afford a house but you don't have any jobs. Take a pick.
I'm not sure it's quite as stark as that, the vast majority of people in Manchester and other regional cities do have jobs, they are not sitting there twiddling their thumbs all day long. Salaries are a bit lower on average but then you don't need as much due to lower living costs.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 09:09 AM   #30
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20313

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
Far more people in their 20s migrated to London than people in their 30s that left.
That's true, but if you also look at children, teenagers, people in their 40s, 50s etc, basically every age group other than 20-28 there is a net outflow. Looking at your link I'd think a lot of those moving to London aged 21-23 are the same people that moved out aged 17-19 coming back from wherever it was they went to university. I think overall it was something like around 200,000 people moving into London from the rest of the UK, 250,000 people moving out of London to elsewhere in the UK.

A lot of those moves in both directions though are h to/from neighboring parts of the country rather than cities further away. People throughout the UK are more likely to move to a nearby city or county rather than the other end of the country.

Last edited by Jonesy55; May 13th, 2015 at 09:16 AM.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 10:48 AM   #31
SE9
South East Nine
 
SE9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 34,145
Likes (Received): 61545

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
That's true, but if you also look at children, teenagers, people in their 40s, 50s etc, basically every age group other than 20-28 there is a net outflow. Looking at your link I'd think a lot of those moving to London aged 21-23 are the same people that moved out aged 17-19 coming back from wherever it was they went to university. I think overall it was something like around 200,000 people moving into London from the rest of the UK, 250,000 people moving out of London to elsewhere in the UK.

A lot of those moves in both directions though are h to/from neighboring parts of the country rather than cities further away. People throughout the UK are more likely to move to a nearby city or county rather than the other end of the country.
A net internal outflow of people excluding young adults is common for major cities. For the likes of London and New York, it's outweighed by the inflow from international migration.

I simply contested the Guardian's headline (the thread title), given my quoted statement and that net internal outflow was greater 10 years ago than it is now.
__________________
-
SE9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #32
steppenwolf
Registered User
 
steppenwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,072
Likes (Received): 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissib View Post
They need to build more highrises and get rid of or at least part of the greenbelt curtailing London and choking it to death. As long as there are such severe limits on construction, prices will sinply rise higher and higher, benefitting a few rich people and driving more and more middle class people out of the city.
All the best cities are compact. No one wants to live on the edge of London - what we actually need to do is densify our outer suburbs - those acres upon acres of two storey 1930s family homes near tube stations - we need to knock them down and build 4 - 5 storey apartment buildings. spreading out into the countryside is not the solution.
__________________
@peakay81

Wapper liked this post
steppenwolf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 03:05 PM   #33
skyshakernowlive
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 120
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
I'm not sure it's quite as stark as that, the vast majority of people in Manchester and other regional cities do have jobs, they are not sitting there twiddling their thumbs all day long. Salaries are a bit lower on average but then you don't need as much due to lower living costs.
I presume there must be a difference in the quality of jobs.
skyshakernowlive no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 04:17 PM   #34
arno-13
Registered User
 
arno-13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 834
Likes (Received): 1200

This is mostly the same for Paris, exept those are not the young but mostly the retired people. Paris attaract people from all France and a large share of foreign immigrants but loose it's "own" people. So with a positive birth rate and newcomers, it gains inhabitants overall, but Parisianer tend to flee the city once they've finished to work.

I guess this is a bit similiar in London : People come in big urban centers for the large job market (and young also come for the dynamic / metropolitan/ multicultural feel) and once the are wealthy enough, they retire to more peacefull place, as they may feel tired of cities never ending activies, noises, and the high prices of the residential market.

As for London being a bit to much the attention o politics, this is the same here for Paris. Being a centralised country have its pro and cons. On the good sides you'll never find cities as intense, intersting, powerfull and open on the world that those big two (In Europe). But then, others cities will suffer and will have troubles to growth as they should be.

On the contrary, German model is more spread, with no "world class city" (that doesn't means that Berlin or Hamburg feels like a village or are not open on the world!). But this is more balanced and in the end, the whole contry benefits more from these kind of urban systems.
__________________
hon hon

Wapper liked this post
arno-13 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 04:46 PM   #35
Bristol Mike
Rain + Cold = England
 
Bristol Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bristol
Posts: 5,305
Likes (Received): 2373

The way forward has to be investment into city-clusters around the UK. There's talk of the northern powerhouse with is great. The likes of Bath-Bristol-Cardiff and Southampton-Portsmouth-Poole could do with a bit more attention, especially with the high standards of education and year round young population who finish studies ready to work.

The number of people I know who have had to go to London just to get a job is sickening. I'm sticking to my guns and won't do it unless something very good is offered to counteract the absurd cost of living. London for me is great to visit and enjoy the perks of, but to work there would be a big case of no.
__________________
Photo Threads:

2DAY IN BRISTOL * LONDON * TOWNS & CITIES OF ENGLAND & WALES * CITIES OF SPAIN * MADRID

My Instagram

Wapper liked this post
Bristol Mike no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 05:32 PM   #36
Chrissib
Margela Schurkel
 
Chrissib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Den Haag
Posts: 1,740
Likes (Received): 13259

Quote:
Originally Posted by arno-13 View Post

On the contrary, German model is more spread, with no "world class city" (that doesn't means that Berlin or Hamburg feels like a village or are not open on the world!). But this is more balanced and in the end, the whole contry benefits more from these kind of urban systems.
It has it's advantages and disadvantages of course. Advantages are as you said that basically every spot in Germany is not far away from a big rich globalized city and thus wealth is more spread around. Regional culture is preserved that way. A Bavarian for example doesn't need to move to Berlin in order to work as a professional and thus would slowly loose his Bavarian identity and accent. He can move to Munich instead and doesn't feel that much out of place while having the same career opportunities as in every other big city in Germany.

The disadvantage is that Germany has no globally recognized megacity that acts as a flagship for the whole country. Berlin wants to act as a flagship, but well, it is too small and too poor to be one. The lack of a megacity also means that clustering effects of a huge bunch of highly educated people aren't realized. With modern means of communication this doesn't play such a big role anymore, but it still does.
__________________
Chrissib no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #37
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20313

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
A net internal outflow of people excluding young adults is common for major cities. For the likes of London and New York, it's outweighed by the inflow from international migration.

I simply contested the Guardian's headline (the thread title), given my quoted statement and that net internal outflow was greater 10 years ago than it is now.
Yes, the headline is rather hyperbolic.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 07:18 PM   #38
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20313

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
I presume there must be a difference in the quality of jobs.
There is a difference in salaries, but you don't need as much living anywhere outside London either which makes up for that. Some of that difference in average salary is because the mix of available jobs is different, some is because the same job pays a bit more in London.

From the last ONS figures I saw around 50-55% of jobs in London come into the professional categories while in other cities it's more like 35-40%.

Looking at all full time jobs the median salary for those working in London is around £35,000 per year which will be around £2,150 per month after you've paid your taxes, social security contributions and paid 5% into a pension. The median for full time jobs in most of the bigger regional cities ranges between about £25,000 and £30,000, which will get you some £1,600-£1,875 net per month.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #39
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20313

One thing that does make London more attractive than elsewhere for young professionals starting in their career is that there seems to be a much higher 'churn' of jobs than in most other places, which means that vacancies come up more often and that's obviously good news if you are a recent graduate or recent migrant looking to get a foot on the ladder. That's for various reasons I guess, a more transient population, more rapidly changing employers, more geographic proximity to alternatives for employees.

I know in my line of work that my employer finds it more difficult to recruit and retain good staff there despite paying more for the same job in London, as most public sector employers do to go some way to addressing extra living costs for workers.

Among people I know, several have moved to London to get those first opportunities but have then often moved elsewhere after they had gained some experience and are better placed to get a good position in other parts of the country.

It also depends what field you are in. Professional jobs in education or healthcare are pretty much spread evenly around the country along with population, from the smallest towns and rural areas to the biggest cities. Professional jobs in accounting, legal work, civil service, academia etc are spread around most larger population centres. Professional jobs in retail, manufacturing etc are also quite well spread. But professional jobs in financial services, media, politics/central government, web tech, the arts etc are much more concentrated around London, with just a few smaller centres elsewhere.

But there are also some converse examples, if you are looking at a professional career in the oil/gas extraction industries, or the energy generation sector, or the military, or agriculture etc then London would not be the place to look for that.
__________________

Yuri S Andrade liked this post

Last edited by Jonesy55; May 13th, 2015 at 09:36 PM.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #40
Golden Age
Registered User
 
Golden Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 150

Yes, London is pricing many Londoners out of the city. That was bound to happen with the global influx of high net worth individuals.

Does that mean that Londoners are moving north for Liverpool, Birmingham or Newcastle?

I seriously doubt it. Oxford / Cambridge have plenty of jobs in the area, Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Bath, Cardiff or Bristol all have a high quality of life and jobs to offer.

Also, don't forget that many up & coming Londoners left for Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia or New Zealand at the peak of the financial crisis (and many have not yet returned).
Golden Age no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium